Accim
Active member
Wish you good hunting. For the budget it will be difficult I think. Remember you will not get the super-macro you asked for.
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I'm really geting mad...S9600 or S100fs or DSLR, like Nikon D40x...
- Thread starter michako
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juantastico
Leading Member
If it looks. feels, weights, and smells like a DSLR... But is not... What is the point!
For the same price you can get a good entry DLSR kit (eg D40 or D40x). The lens will not be the same.. but a few extra buck and you can get something similar, and price are falling!
this migth be a very good camera, but if it is not a DSLR. Sensor in DSLR is much better: allowing better DOP and high iso (Ex 1600) with not too much noise as a digital cam , and this in any of the cameras motioned above.
Do not know what Fuji was thinking with adding this camera to their product portfolio.
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Regards,
Juan
You can only be free when you have nothing to lose
For the same price you can get a good entry DLSR kit (eg D40 or D40x). The lens will not be the same.. but a few extra buck and you can get something similar, and price are falling!
this migth be a very good camera, but if it is not a DSLR. Sensor in DSLR is much better: allowing better DOP and high iso (Ex 1600) with not too much noise as a digital cam , and this in any of the cameras motioned above.
Do not know what Fuji was thinking with adding this camera to their product portfolio.
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Regards,
Juan
You can only be free when you have nothing to lose
It seems that some people keep buying these "bridge" cameras in hopes that someday they will find one that is as good as digital SLR. Everyone wants that SLR quality without having to pay for it. There is no question that having a digital SLR, and the lenses, and everything else that goes along with having a SLR camera, is going to cost more money. But you get what you pay for. This new Fuji looks like a pretty nice camera. There are going to be a lot of critics who will not like it. There will probably be a lot of people who buy the camera who will like it. But, try as they may, they won't get the same quality as they would get with a digital SLR.
I don't know why you are worried about the "learning curve", stick a DSLR on Auto or a Motif mode (what most users do, check EXIF information), and a DSLR will get you better pictures with less hassle.
You probably know about having to do half shutter/pan anticipated action with a compact, with a DSLR you can just point and shoot. You may not know that to get a good portrait with a compact you need to take 10 steps back and use zoom, and cope with the lens shake. With a DSLR just open up the aperture, point and shoot!
This attitude of DSLR users calling anything that is not an SLR a P&S is very misleading, it is easier to take better shots with a DSLR, the downside is the cost and size and in many entry levels with no live view, difficult composition.
A word of warning though, you will be perhaps surprised to learn that entry level DSLR's often do not have advanced functions that are found on good compacts, they have to justify the more expensive models somehow!
You probably know about having to do half shutter/pan anticipated action with a compact, with a DSLR you can just point and shoot. You may not know that to get a good portrait with a compact you need to take 10 steps back and use zoom, and cope with the lens shake. With a DSLR just open up the aperture, point and shoot!
This attitude of DSLR users calling anything that is not an SLR a P&S is very misleading, it is easier to take better shots with a DSLR, the downside is the cost and size and in many entry levels with no live view, difficult composition.
A word of warning though, you will be perhaps surprised to learn that entry level DSLR's often do not have advanced functions that are found on good compacts, they have to justify the more expensive models somehow!
tdkd13
Veteran Member
Agree 100%, spec wise this new Fuji looks quite good and a big step in the right direction, but still not DSLR quality and it would be ludicrous to think it will be, the sensor is ony marginally larger than the 1/1.6" sensors, they are still miles away from APS size.
Ted
http://photobucket.com/albums/y260/tdkd13/
Ted
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http://photobucket.com/albums/y260/tdkd13/
gustabod
Senior Member
yes, I would also support that very good recommendation. I own a K100D, and despite the new cameras coming out, I won't part with it, color rendition, noise performance, built in IS, excellent viewfinder, great compact handling, spot metering, the list goes on. And the snsor is the same Sony CCD that the D40 uses. It's the camera that comes travelling with me.
In fact there is a very good review of the k100D here in DP-R and they loved it too. Good suggestion.
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gustavo
http://www.pbase.com/gustabod
In fact there is a very good review of the k100D here in DP-R and they loved it too. Good suggestion.
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gustavo
http://www.pbase.com/gustabod
Accim
Active member
I can just not see the points there have been used. Michako do have $700-800 (maybe +150) for the camera, he lives in Israel and I do not know the prices in Israel; but in Europe the cost for a Nikon D40x kit 18-55mm and with wished 18-200mm lens in Nikon brand with stabilized lens cost around $1635 (Euro 1050). it is 2x the budget. In USA the same will cost around $1220 (Euro 785). This is a big step from the price budget been asking for. Yes you can get third-part lenses and it will even get cheaper without stabilization, but there is still a big gap from the planned budget.
I know the quality in DSLR is better, but there have been asking for a tool capable for taking all kind of photos. Read again:
"My expectations from the camera are to be capable of shooting pictures in motion, like from the window of the bus during journey (in motion at full speed of 95-100 kilometers per hour). I'd likely take pictures with a full range zoom, also taking panoramic pictures, and macro and super macro..."
Macro and super macro ... forget it. The 18-200mm Nikon closest focusing distance is 0.5 mtr. The S100fs lens distance is 0.1 mtr in macro and 0.01 mtr in super macro. Big difference. And I can not see in any post that big posters will be printed for the walls. Would the little tiny SuperCCD not be enough for Michako? I think it will.
With the expectations Michako do have, it is not possible doing for $700-800, - used equipment or 6 mill. pixels will do it cheaper and possible; but still the Fuji S100fs is a good solution for Michako without emtying his pockets and he will still learn a lot about photography in many ways using macro, super macro, custom settings, continuous shooting, dynamic range, shutter contra aperture, ISO and so on. With two or three years having fun taking macro shots of flowers on orangetrees and long shoot of Palestines in camps from a bus ... then he can go for DSLR if he still have the interest. He do have a E550 now ... I think his expectations will be fullfilled with the new Fuji, for the budget.
regards Accim
I know the quality in DSLR is better, but there have been asking for a tool capable for taking all kind of photos. Read again:
"My expectations from the camera are to be capable of shooting pictures in motion, like from the window of the bus during journey (in motion at full speed of 95-100 kilometers per hour). I'd likely take pictures with a full range zoom, also taking panoramic pictures, and macro and super macro..."
Macro and super macro ... forget it. The 18-200mm Nikon closest focusing distance is 0.5 mtr. The S100fs lens distance is 0.1 mtr in macro and 0.01 mtr in super macro. Big difference. And I can not see in any post that big posters will be printed for the walls. Would the little tiny SuperCCD not be enough for Michako? I think it will.
With the expectations Michako do have, it is not possible doing for $700-800, - used equipment or 6 mill. pixels will do it cheaper and possible; but still the Fuji S100fs is a good solution for Michako without emtying his pockets and he will still learn a lot about photography in many ways using macro, super macro, custom settings, continuous shooting, dynamic range, shutter contra aperture, ISO and so on. With two or three years having fun taking macro shots of flowers on orangetrees and long shoot of Palestines in camps from a bus ... then he can go for DSLR if he still have the interest. He do have a E550 now ... I think his expectations will be fullfilled with the new Fuji, for the budget.
regards Accim
gustabod
Senior Member
as one who actually owns the said Fuji camera I invite you to show me in what situation it focuses on "macro" at 0.1m, and "super macro" at 0.01 M.- regardless what the manufacturer claims.
The best I have been able to focus on "macro" setting is at about 0.3m, and that is with the lens set at below the 100mm equivalent distance. No better than any lens out there that claims macro setting. For the super macro, you can only get focus at 28mm setting, and that is next to useless.
here's one of the fabled "macro" shots it can do:
look at the exif, it's the closest I could get and stay in focus
this is what it can't do:
which you need a true macro lens for (flower in question is 15 mm across)
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gustavo
http://www.pbase.com/gustabod
The best I have been able to focus on "macro" setting is at about 0.3m, and that is with the lens set at below the 100mm equivalent distance. No better than any lens out there that claims macro setting. For the super macro, you can only get focus at 28mm setting, and that is next to useless.
here's one of the fabled "macro" shots it can do:
look at the exif, it's the closest I could get and stay in focus
this is what it can't do:
which you need a true macro lens for (flower in question is 15 mm across)
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gustavo
http://www.pbase.com/gustabod
kIM WROTE: > So ... get the D60 with the 18-200VR and never look back. Here are a few shots from a moving vehicle ... first time I was in London. From a taxi on our way to Soho etc ...
As an experienced user of digicams (Pany FZ30) and DSLRs (Pentax K10D) I agree - NO WAY his shots are going to be made by ANY ultrazoom.
The Nikon he suggests is a better deal
bill wilson
As an experienced user of digicams (Pany FZ30) and DSLRs (Pentax K10D) I agree - NO WAY his shots are going to be made by ANY ultrazoom.
The Nikon he suggests is a better deal
- tho imho the Pentax K100 or K200 is better still due to the image stabilization, dust control, and availability of older Pentax lenses, many of which are VERY good, and all of which fit the late cameras. Pentaxes are amazing values with few faults...just not much prestige.
bill wilson
Zeol1
Leading Member
...It also has it's flaws, some that might scare you away for good as happened to me. The K100d do take some great pictures and is a very nice camera, fully featured BTW. In body IS is effective but not as good as one in lens, many will say. Self cleaning is not effective, that's confirmed by many. Auto WB is the worse thing i had ever seen, so be prepared to be changing it manually very often. On-board Flash Sync speed is very low, so using it as fill flash on a bright day is useless.
Now the worst thing of all, and this is the reason why i sold mine, is the AF speed in low light. It is just way too frustrating to use this camera indoors or in low light. It just doesn't focus or takes too long to do it.
That's why i am a happy Nikon D40 user, it just makes my life easier because the auto WB is better, it focus very fast and the on board Flash can be used as fill flash.
Highly consider this points before buying.
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'Attitude is a little thing that can make big differences'
Fujifilm Finepix E550 and F20
Nikon D40 and 55-200 VR.
Now the worst thing of all, and this is the reason why i sold mine, is the AF speed in low light. It is just way too frustrating to use this camera indoors or in low light. It just doesn't focus or takes too long to do it.
That's why i am a happy Nikon D40 user, it just makes my life easier because the auto WB is better, it focus very fast and the on board Flash can be used as fill flash.
Highly consider this points before buying.
--
'Attitude is a little thing that can make big differences'
Fujifilm Finepix E550 and F20
Nikon D40 and 55-200 VR.
gustabod
Senior Member
mmmhh, live view
well I haven't got direct experience with it, but the Olympus E410 has full time live view, and is supplied normally in a kit with decent lenses, about the cost of a Nikon D40 and lenses, at least where I live. There is a good review of this camera and the kit lenses here in DP Review, perhaps you should read it. Other members of the forum may own one and have an opinion to offer you.
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gustavo
http://www.pbase.com/gustabod
well I haven't got direct experience with it, but the Olympus E410 has full time live view, and is supplied normally in a kit with decent lenses, about the cost of a Nikon D40 and lenses, at least where I live. There is a good review of this camera and the kit lenses here in DP Review, perhaps you should read it. Other members of the forum may own one and have an opinion to offer you.
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gustavo
http://www.pbase.com/gustabod
Accim
Active member
The cheapest and only possible DSLR solution from my point is Olympus E-510 kit with 14-42mm f:3.5-5.6 and 40-150mm f:4.0-5.6 (same as 28-300mm in 35mm language).
You get 10 megapixel with live view, built-in image stabiliser and two very decent lenses. Cost in Europe from 625 euro ($ 970). Olympus E-410 without image stabiliser but the same lenses cost euro 500 ($ 780).
Fuji S100fs seems to cost from 550 euro.
A cheap alternative could be the newcomer (not avalible before april) Fuji S1000fd http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08012408fujifS1000fd.asp priced euro 250. Then you save up some money for the DSLR you want.
Have to mention that most DSLR users is happy living with 6 megapixel cameraes.
regards Accim
You get 10 megapixel with live view, built-in image stabiliser and two very decent lenses. Cost in Europe from 625 euro ($ 970). Olympus E-410 without image stabiliser but the same lenses cost euro 500 ($ 780).
Fuji S100fs seems to cost from 550 euro.
A cheap alternative could be the newcomer (not avalible before april) Fuji S1000fd http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08012408fujifS1000fd.asp priced euro 250. Then you save up some money for the DSLR you want.
Have to mention that most DSLR users is happy living with 6 megapixel cameraes.
regards Accim
john farrar
Veteran Member
The Sony Alpha 350 is possibly what you are describing. This camera has a flip out LCD with fast live view giving the best compromise of larger sensor quality, IS, and of course any number of lenses.
It could be disastrous to buy a S100FS or basic Nikon DSLR at 60-70% the price of the A350 only to discover that you must upgrade far sooner than you might have hoped.
You have to really work hard at a bridge camera to emulate DSLR quality. It requires an attitude of mind that says "I can work around IQ issues because the all-in-one solution is of greater importance."
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John.
Please visit me at:
http://www.pbase.com/johnfr/backtothebridge
http://www.pbase.com/johnfr/digital_dartmoor
It could be disastrous to buy a S100FS or basic Nikon DSLR at 60-70% the price of the A350 only to discover that you must upgrade far sooner than you might have hoped.
You have to really work hard at a bridge camera to emulate DSLR quality. It requires an attitude of mind that says "I can work around IQ issues because the all-in-one solution is of greater importance."
--
John.
Please visit me at:
http://www.pbase.com/johnfr/backtothebridge
http://www.pbase.com/johnfr/digital_dartmoor
My dillemma is the S100FS versus the Sony a300. See http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00138MVBY/ref=nosim/?tag=pricegrabber2-elect-20&creative=380333&creativeASIN=B00138MVBY&linkCode=asn
the kit lens is not a full zoom, but the combination is -like the S100FS- very attractive as a next step up from my current S9600. I do al lot of indoor sport shooting so I need all the ISO and lens quality I can afford. I used to have a Minolta XD7 and a Z1, so the Sony is like coming home.
Don't like the shutter noise though: I need Live View to be unobtrusive, the noise spoils that to a certain degree (see the movies at http://photoclubalpha.com/2008/03/08/sony-alpha-350-live-view-tested/ - note: the a350 equals the a300 except for Mpixels).
Hope I did not make you 'madder'.
the kit lens is not a full zoom, but the combination is -like the S100FS- very attractive as a next step up from my current S9600. I do al lot of indoor sport shooting so I need all the ISO and lens quality I can afford. I used to have a Minolta XD7 and a Z1, so the Sony is like coming home.
Don't like the shutter noise though: I need Live View to be unobtrusive, the noise spoils that to a certain degree (see the movies at http://photoclubalpha.com/2008/03/08/sony-alpha-350-live-view-tested/ - note: the a350 equals the a300 except for Mpixels).
Hope I did not make you 'madder'.
draganflyer
Senior Member
I suspect they aren't so much unhappy with the images they're getting from 6mp as they are suffering from pixel count envy. There are a LOT of cameras sold; good, bad and downright ugly, simply and solely because they advertise as have 10, 12, 14 megapixels. As has been said many, many times before all through this and other forums, pixel count is only one element in the phtographers equation that factors into whether or not said photographer takes stunning photos, or mediocre ones.
You can get stunning images from 3mp cameras...with good lighting and proper technique. High pixel count is not a cure for bad technique, although many would have you believe otherwise
Wayne
--
some of my photos are here;
http://picasaweb.google.ca/waynebreimer/ChinaTrip2007
or here;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/waynereimer/
You can get stunning images from 3mp cameras...with good lighting and proper technique. High pixel count is not a cure for bad technique, although many would have you believe otherwise
Wayne
--
some of my photos are here;
http://picasaweb.google.ca/waynebreimer/ChinaTrip2007
or here;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/waynereimer/
Accim
Active member
Yes, that must be because 6 mp DSLR have been avalible in some more years and people is going mad with megapixel talk. But I can suggest Fuji S3 Pro going for $550-650. Still one of the best cameras ever made, but not as an entry in DSLR world (to complicated working with). And yes, it only have 6 mp.Have you seen how many 6mp dslr's are for sale on Ebay?
It looks like alot of owners are not so happy with 6mp.
Accim
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