I'm really geting mad...S9600 or S100fs or DSLR, like Nikon D40x...

I've posted here a thread with the similar question about two weeks ago, but then I didn't got to the final decision...

My expectations from the camera are to be capable of shooting pictures in motion, like from the window of the bus during journey (in motion at full speed of 95-100 kilometers per hour). I'd likely take pictures with a full range zoom, also taking panoramic pictures, and macro and super macro...

I know that the DSLR option is very good, but the financial factor is really a big issue...because if I go for a DSLR, I'll need immediately the full range lens, like 18-200...it is very expensive and my name is not Bill Gates...
What do you think is a optimal decision for me?

Sounds like you're looking for an entry level dslr with an inexpensive 3rd part lens.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11873890@N05/

Can i ask what your budget is?

If it is 1,000.00 USD, you should look at the Pentax K100d Super with a Tamron 18-250mm or at a Nikon D40(x) with a Sigma 18-200 HSM

--
'Attitude is a little thing that can make big differences'

Fujifilm Finepix E550 and F20
Nikon D40 and 55-200 VR.

You want to shoot pictures at full zoom from a moving bus, personally I think in those circumstances anything beyond a cheap point and shoot would be a waste of money. Maybe an HD video camera capable of exporting nice sized still would work. Still cameras are not designed to shoot from a moving platform.

And what the heck kinda macro and super macro shots are you expecting from a bus window?

Maybe you need to read a little about how photography works, maybe not, but I can't recommend any camera for the purpose you want, if I had to pick anything, I'd say grab and S8000 (man, I NEVER thought I'd say that)

Sorry, Ted

michako said:

I've posted here a thread with the similar question about two weeks
ago, but then I didn't got to the final decision...
My expectations from the camera are to be capable of shooting
pictures in motion, like from the window of the bus during journey
(in motion at full speed of 95-100 kilometers per hour). I'd likely
take pictures with a full range zoom, also taking panoramic pictures,
and macro and super macro...
I know that the DSLR option is very good, but the financial factor is
really a big issue...because if I go for a DSLR, I'll need
immediately the full range lens, like 18-200...it is very expensive
and my name is not Bill Gates...
What do you think is a optimal decision for me?

Click to expand...

--
http://photobucket.com/albums/y260/tdkd13/

Hi Michako.

Definitely the S100fs!!

S100fs is beside the S9600 much more DSLR-like. Never technology in any ways, - build quality seems much better, anti-shake, dedicated ISO button and much more new. Picture quality also look pretty good, big CA problems seems to be a firmware question. As some posters have showed, they get nice pictures. Look like there have been some early pre-productionsmodels in asia with an early firmware installed. S100fs is the closest you get from a new camera with all the shooting modes you mention.

A DSLR system will be more expensive if you prefer a single-lens system, - and it will still not work in macro and especially not in super macro. For this you need macro lenses and they are not cheap. DSLR will give you better picture quality, specially from ISO 400 and higher; but you can use the RAW option to minimize this aspect very much.

Seems to me that S100fs is build like a tank. Big because of the 28-400mm lens, but also in a quality like a real DSLR.

I think your only solution is just waiting for S100fs arriving your Israel.

Regards Accim

michako said:

I've posted here a thread with the similar question about two weeks
ago, but then I didn't got to the final decision...
My expectations from the camera are to be capable of shooting
pictures in motion, like from the window of the bus during journey
(in motion at full speed of 95-100 kilometers per hour). I'd likely
take pictures with a full range zoom, also taking panoramic pictures,
and macro and super macro...
I know that the DSLR option is very good, but the financial factor is
really a big issue...because if I go for a DSLR, I'll need
immediately the full range lens, like 18-200...it is very expensive
and my name is not Bill Gates...
What do you think is a optimal decision for me?

Click to expand...

I personally had the same question pop up on me recently. my decision will be for the s100fs. mainly because i'm not a pro nor do i want to be one. what i do want is a camera that'll give me the most options to grow and is big enough for my rather big hands to grab on to. the price i'd pay for a dslr-path is just to much for me, specially if i need specific lenses like macro gear and other options like flash (one isn't going for a "dumb" flas is his camera supports ttl flash or is he? i know i wouldn't). sure the s100fs has CA issues but i've been trying various things on alot of samples i've pulled from the web in the past week and i've found i could fix most with some simple pp work.

good luck on making up your mind!

Thank you very much, Ted, but I think you have misunderstood me...

On one hand, I want to take pics in motion, like from the moving bus; on the other hand, independently, I want to shoot panoramic pictures, pictures of the wild life (safari, etc.) and also macro or super macro. And finally, taking some indoor pics in low light, like in museum will be also important...

Thank you all....I'll consider 2 options...S100fs or Nikon D40x....I'm afraid of CA problems in S100....

My budget is approx. 700-800 USD...1000 USD will be painful for me...

michako,

for what it's worth I would suggest you wait on the S100FS until proper reviews on DP or other reputable sites are conducted.

As an owner of this Fuji and DSLR's I believe the Nikon will give you better long term options.

The "super CCD" is much smaller than the D40 CCD, and again good as it is, the APS-C format CCD will give you cleaner shots. And so it goes (SLR's give you in the long term more flexible options with lenses, and let you grow with you).

The CA issues are imho (and I am not a camera specialist) related to the optic being overstretch, and small photosites, than any firmware issue, but that will be up to the experts in the field to establish.

Incidentally the "macro" is really a close up setting, not a true 1:1 macro setting that you get with specialist lenses. It's good enough for nice close ups, but photographing bugs eyes is not in the list of possibilities with this camera though!
--
gustavo

http://www.pbase.com/gustabod

Thank you very much Gustavo, I'm really think about these options. But the budget, ohhh...the budget...I have only 700-800$ for this....

you should be able to get D40 kits in that range 9depending where in the world you are.

for example

http://www.adorama.com/INKD40K2A.html?searchinfo=NIKON%20d40%20KIT&item_no=1

good luck

if you with the Nikon 18-55 VR lens, it has a good review here in DPR
--
gustavo

http://www.pbase.com/gustabod

I now use a Pentax as well as a Fuji s600z ... but the K100D is being replaced but is an excellent little camera and the Sigma 18-200 ( 28-300) is fine.

All that was said of the bigger sensor is true .... but it is in my opinion a much better option than the Nikon D40

1/ Image Stabilising
2/ Dust cleaning

3/ MUCH wider options on lenses ... old Pentax lenses are cheap and some are pin sharp
4/ Image stabilising

See review here ... and dont worry at all at 6mp as due to sensor size ok up to A3
--
Tom Bell
Dartmooor
Devon
UK

michako said:

Thank you very much, Ted, but I think you have misunderstood me...
On one hand, I want to take pics in motion, like from the moving bus;
on the other hand, independently, I want to shoot panoramic pictures,
pictures of the wild life (safari, etc.) and also macro or super
macro. And finally, taking some indoor pics in low light, like in
museum will be also important...

Click to expand...

... to go on safari, plus travel to museums and such ... and perhaps shoot images from moving buses (I presume you mean sitting on top of tour buses) then I would highly recommend a dSLR with a good stabilized lense.

For safari, well, this is an expensive trip with once-in-a-lifetime images available to you. Do you really want all these images marred by the traditional Fuji PF? And since many of the finest images are available in lower light (morning and evening), do you really want to struggle with either a 9600 or s100fs to get anything you can actually print?

For museums, here is where you would have a slight advantage with the s100fs because it has stabilization and a silent shutter. But frankly, it is so large that you will not sneak it by anyone, so in places where you are actually allowed to photograph the dSLR still provides the better images. In places where you have to sneak around, the fujis are both too large to do that effectively.

For moving images ... fuji's stabilization technology is unlikely to be up to the task. On the other hand, the Nikon 18-200VR has an active mode that is designed for just that .... it is capable of compensating for very large shake and shooting from moving vehicles is mentioned as one of the target use cases.

So ... get the D60 with the 18-200VR and never look back. Here are a few shots from a moving vehicle ... first time I was in London.

From a taxi on our way to Soho etc ...



A few from a bus tour my coworker and I took one morning ... all shot while moving ... many shot at full zoom ...





















--
http://letkeman.net/Photos
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com

michako said:

I've posted here a thread with the similar question about two weeks
ago, but then I didn't got to the final decision...

Click to expand...

Sorry missed it.

michako said:

My expectations from the camera are to be capable of shooting
pictures in motion, like from the window of the bus during journey
(in motion at full speed of 95-100 kilometers per hour).

Click to expand...

OK lets get real. If you are speaking or front or rear window it is possible with almost any camera depending on how close you are shooting to the bus. If distant; any of the cameras you mentined will work. Close up not even the NIKON D3 or the current Canon latest and greatest will work.

Money is not the answer nor is a DSLR but skill and lighting are. EVEN THEN it will not be easy at those speeds.

Ok, I do not know if this will work but here is the best starting point I can come up with.

1. Which camera is probably not as important as your ability to make your body a shock absorber and your using proper tecniques, Learn how to hold a camera properly, learn how to depress the sutter release, Practice hand held varying positioned LONG zoom shots at low shutter speeds. when you can hand hold at full zoom at exposures longer than about 1/20th second you need to start working at your panning skills. Remember to practice panning left and righrt. Here is your problem I learned practicing on slow moving vehicles and as I got better faster moving vehicles; however, since 09/11/2001 I suggest you be very careful wherever you practice.

2. As for which camera, I do not know if it really matters, a non-DSKR would in theory have some advantages due to the larger DOF, However, the enhanced high ISO abilities might off set that. ????

3. Back to you, If you try to shoot relitively close up at 100KPH [about 62 MPH] you will get a blur. Even at 1/4000th second, with panning and a somewhat less close target you might get an excellent result.

GOOD LUCK and be patient.

michako said:

I'd likely
take pictures with a full range zoom, also taking panoramic pictures,
and macro and super macro...
I know that the DSLR option is very good, but the financial factor is
really a big issue...because if I go for a DSLR, I'll need
immediately the full range lens, like 18-200...it is very expensive
and my name is not Bill Gates...
What do you think is a optimal decision for me?

Click to expand...

--
Ray
RJNedimyer

I really agree with Kim. I still have and shoot with my S9000, and I love the camera (I've had two of them, nearly 60,000 shots taken) but for shooting from moving vehicles, wanting some zoom range, etc. it'd be my S5 and the 18-200 every time, at least if it mattered to me that I be able to capture the photo (and that always matters to me). the 18-200 in active VR mode does a wonderful job of damping camera shake, as Kim's shots prove. There is a cost factor, for sure. If the trip and it's potential images are important to you, you'll find the extra money in your budget. For me, it was a family trip to China that provided me the motivation to move up to the S5 and the 18-200, and I'm really glad that I had that motivation to move me that last, big step. My photography has improved, I enjoy it more than ever, and the photos.......oh, the photos...........you won't look back
my opinion only, your mileage may vary
Wayne
--
some of my photos are here;
http://picasaweb.google.ca/waynebreimer/ChinaTrip2007
or here;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/waynereimer/

Shots from a fast-moving bus? Basically a waste of time trying to get anything of top-quality, and image stabilisation will be of no help when the subject is on the move.

Seriously, the Original Poster would do just as well with a Canon G9, and it would be much, much more portable!

For good quality images across a wide variety of subject types, a DSLR will offer cleaner 'sharpenable' photos (I nearly always need to use USM), and it will also offer better manual control. To be really useful in Manual it needs two control wheels, one for the shutter and the other for the aperture.

Indeed there are issues with the older Fuji 9100 (which I also use) with a single control wheel, and exposure compensation not being shown in the ECV when set in Manual mode. So be careful what you buy uf you want good controllability.

--
John.
Please visit me at:
http://www.pbase.com/johnfr/backtothebridge
http://www.pbase.com/johnfr/digital_dartmoor

I'll go for an relatively inexpensive DSLR, like Nikon D40x or D60 or D80 (I don't have money for something more serious, like D300) and a "combo" lens 18-200 (because of two reasons - money and portability). But I'm really afraid of the learning process, because I'm new to a DSLR (I own only point and shoot Fuji E550).

I recommend the the D40 not the D40x

Firstly is cheaper as its an older model.

Secondly its a 6mp camera and not a 10mp camera. This particular camera together with the older Nikon D50 provide the cleanest images at high ISO in the Nikon range (excluding the pro cameras).

What you need for your bus is high ISO images in order to keep the shutter speed high enough to eliminate blur. This is far more important then image stabilisation, which for your bus journey will be a waste of time.

The 40 comes with a great kit lens for the price and the 55 - 200 can be had for very little money. The unstabilised version of the 55 - 200 is dirt cheap now and as I said, the high ISO capabilty of the D40 far outweighs the benefits of stabilisation on te bus.

A super budget option is an S6500, which I also have. Again they are dirt cheap (well belw yor budget) because they have been recently discontinued. I bought the last demo unit from a local store for a song and they have a great 6mp sensor and a 28 - 200 zoom. They have good 1600 ISO capability and you just can't go wrong with one of these.

By the way this camera also has a great Macro capability.

I am a fan of both Fuji and Nikon 6mp cameras. 6mp is basically all you need unless you are a pro stock photographer or want to blow up the images to beyond A3 size.

These 6mp sensors have been proven over and over again to give the best high ISO performance and high ISO is what you need on your bus tour not IS.

Yeah, I know about both options you mentioned - Fuji S6500, I can get it here in Israel if I really hurry (as you said, this model is unfortunately discontinued). But it is a 6 MP sensor...also, is pretty small (I mean phisical measures). If so, why not S9600?

About Nikon D40, I think similarly, I'll add some extra 150$ and get much bigger sensor...

About the lenses - if I get two or three different lenses (including super macro), I will not know when I have to change them...