Sigma sd14 noise at ISO-100

Last 3 years I was using Sigma SD-10 camera, and was pleased by it.
Few days ago I bought Sigma-SD14.

And I saw, that it have a high noise level at ISO 100. Higher than my SD-10 at ISO 400.

Such noise level is not acceptable for me - I can't correct exposition for more than one step!
So, this camera is useless for me - I will continue SD10 using.

Tell me please, is it normal for SD-14 to have much higher noise level than SD-10 in same conditions, or I got camera with defect?
What noise level is normal for SD-14?

Sorry for my bad English.

first, what firmware does your SD14 have?

second, yes, you need to expose the SD14 somewhat differently than SD10 in my opinion. Get your shadows 'right' Don't hesitate to use EV+ I personally like to use center area metering rather than matrix.
Third, take some time to get used to the SD14.
Woud be helpful to see photos to see what's happening.
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

alkonavt

As Sandy has indicated, the SD 14 has its own characteristics regarding best exposure. Many adjust EV +.3 or +.7 common shooting, but there are exceptions. What kinds of photos were you taking? What lighting? What exposure mode? What EV?

Kind regards,

--
Ed_S
http://www.pbase.com/ecsquires

It has a bit more luminance noise at low ISO than the SD10, which particularly shows in certain colors. This is because of the smaller pixels. However, with the right raw converter the noise should be taken care of properly. Do you use a compatible raw converter? You cannot use SPP 2.1 or ACR 4.0, they will open the photos but make for crappy images. Use ACR 4.1 or an SPP higher than 2.1.

Other than that, I have ran into color noise problems with the SD14 too which showed up under certain lightning conditions/colors. This is a separate issue and has nothing to do with the raw converter or exposure. This is related to faulty bodys. If you are convinced this second cause is the problem, sen your camera in for a check.

O.
-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ollivr/
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/ollivr/popular-interesting/

I will publish test pictures tomorrow, i have no disk with me today.
At first i just take some pictures with new camera, and was surprised by noise.

After that i thought, that there is something with exposure. But all my attempts to get picture, compatible with SD-10 failed.

After that I take a black frame photo with sd10 and sd14, using 1/200s shutter speed.

To see sd10 noise I had to make exposure correction by 2 steps, and after that - correct levels in Photoshop to expand levels 0-16.

From sd14 the same noise on black field I got using only 2 steps exposure correction.

After that I got few test pictures, which was not exposed correctly. I used the same lens, and the same light (halogen lamp) and the same scene. I used the same aperture(11.0) and shutter speeds (1/15s). All was the same, only cameras was different.

So, after the exposure correction, and expanding levels in photoshop, i saw, that SD10 save much more details than SD14. Where SD-10 gets clear picture, sd14 gets picture with noise, where sd10 gets some noise on details, sd14 gets great noise and hardly recognized details under it. Where sd10 gets annoying noise on image - sd14 have no image - only noise. Ugly green and red noise.

Excuse me for my English again, and thank you for reading this.

I use SPP3.0. Also I tried to use Adobe Photoshop raw converter, but result was awful. All my test I made using spp3.0

alkonavt said:

And I saw, that it have a high noise level at ISO 100. Higher than my
SD-10 at ISO 400.

Click to expand...

It would be great if you show your images.

I have both SD10 and SD14 and it seems to me that SD14 is a very little bit more noisy at ISO100, but at the same time it is better than SD10 at ISO400-800.

When I think that SD10 was better, I go and review my old images again and then I see that they are not better. It is a trick of my memory.

Really important to SD14 photos is the RAW converter in your photoshop software program. Check your ACR version #. What is it please?
Tnx, Sandy

I using 1.05 firmware. Our dealers not recommend to use 1.06 firmware. "A lot of users got problems during 1.6 installation" - they says.
I will post test sd10 and sd14 photos tomorrow.

Adobe Camera raw 3.0.
I know, it's old. When i saw noise, at first what I stop using it.

And begin using of spp3.0, and photoshop with it's result tiff's. Yes, SPP 3.0 get's much better results than photoshop raw converter. But result is much worse than sd10 pictures, converted in any converter, including SPP2.1 and 3.0...

The SD14 works quite a bit differently from the SD10. As others have said, with the SD14 you should rather be overexposing a bit than underexposing as with the SD10.

If you want somewhat similiar characteristics to the SD10 then use the SD14 on ISO50.

Right, please do NOT use ACR3 with SD14 X3F RAW files.

Also, note that Sigma Photo Pro 2.3 is an update to SPP3; it was put online for SDx users on December 7, 2007. I suggest you use SPP2.3 at least (rather than SPP3).

It's very hard to judge exposure questions without seeing images. I found that the SD14 handles rather differently than my SD10. But the SD14 I find is much more versatile in ISOs than my SD10. I use the SD14 by preference to the SD10.
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

I just did some tests comparing PhotoShopRawSoftware4 and SigmaPhotoPro2.3
As for noise, SPP performs much better. And getting around SPP is much simplier.

Again, Photoshop's Adobe Camera RAW plug-in 4 is NOT set-up to handle SD14 X3F RAWs. Don't use it. ACR4.1 is the first that handles SD14 RAWs.

BUT note confusion arises with version #s of PS products. I think some users have updated their PS Elements software v4 adding ACR4.1 to it. You can use whatever Adobe PHotoshop software you wish as long as you have updated the RAW plug-in to at least 4.1.
Examples:
PSElements 3 = cannot be updated to support SD14 RAW
PSElements 4 = can be updated with ACR4.1+ to support SD14 RAW

PSElements 5 = my new boxed CD-ROM version bought in May2007 came with ACR4. I had to update that ACR4 plug-in to ACR4.1

Adobe's CS software has similar problems with SD14 RAWs. Some CS can be updated and handle. Some cannot.

Anyone will get BAD results if you use a software program not designed to support the RAWs!
Hope that clarifies further for readers.
Best regarsd, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

Some test pictures:

1. Black frame. Shutter speed 1/10s ISO 100
Converted in Sigma PhotoPro 2.3.
After that - expand levels 0-32 in Adobe Photoshop. After that - 100% crop.

Sigma SD10:



Sigma SD14.



2. Sigma sd10 shutter speed 1/10, ISO400



We can see, that SD14 is more noisy at ISO100 than SD10 at ISO400...

And a picture taking with underexposure with the same light, and same shutter speed (1/15s), the same lens and the same aperture (2.8). With sd10 and sd14.

All was converted in sigma PhotoPro 2.3 with all controls set to 0. After that i expand levels 2-50 in adobe PhotoShop.

1. Scaled scene SD10



2. Scaled scene SD14



3. 100% crop from SD10



4. 100% crop from SD14



5. Another 100% crop from SD10



6. Another 100% crop from SD14



We can see, that SD14 noise level and effective dynamic range much less than SD10...

Alkonavt,

I don't pretend to understand "what" but from the photos just posted there appears to be something amiss either in exposure or processing. While I don't shoot any one ISO exclusively (and don't own an SD10 for comparison, only an SD9) my results with the SD14 aren't typically that noisy and in general shooting has good DR. Perhaps others can give more specific assistance.

Regards,
--
Ed_S
http://www.pbase.com/ecsquires

Sorry to hear about your problem. I don't have this problem.

You might want to get RAWs from other peoples shots and evaluate them against yours. If you feel after evaluation that there is something wrong with the sensor or some other defect, it might be best to seek support from Sigma and send them your samples.

Good luck,
Larry

I will try to find hosting, and publish test X3Fs tomorrow.

Please tell me, if something not clear about processing. My english is not good, so maybe my explanation is obscure...
I will try to explain in more details the methods of my test.

Really, I made a exact the same conditions for both cameras, and there was exact the same processing. And RAW converting was made by native Sigma PhotoPro software...

I believe that it is just defective camera, but our Sigma dealer do now want to take it back. They says that all SD14 make the same pictures. But I really can't compare my camera with others SD14, to do this I need to by another camera...

With regards
alkonavt.

Thank you for reply!

Yes, it will be great for me to get some simple test X3F-s from other SD-14. If somebody will publish them it will be great help for me. Just several black frames from sd14 on different shutter speeds and ISO will be very helpful.

It seems that I will need to go to court, to get my money back, or get other non defective camera(I preffer camera)
Russian Sigma dealers do not like to take sold things back...

With regards,
alkonavt