F100fd Official Sample - Cartoon or Privacy Issue ?

Jim, Ted,

I wish you were right.

Unfortunately, it is not the first sample from the F100fd that I see this cartoon look.

I do not know your professional background in term of signal processing, but what I can say is that Fuji NR algorithm is full with heuristics and not with well designed adaptive filters. You can see the big gap when you test the s6000fd RAF vs. JPG. The JPG looks much worst :-(

If you take Fuji sensor and use Nikon NR algorithms you will get a killer machine. It will be a little more noisy but it will have a natural look.

I wish for a successor of E900 .....

BTW, Purim is a week and half from now ;-)

jimr said:

tdkd13 said:

Asaf Tzadok said:

Dear 'None Pixel Peepers',

We are talking about 32x25 Pixels for the face alone. We also see
that the other person beside her has black spots were the eyes should
be. OTOH, this woman has a white spots instead of eyes. You are
welcome to see the cartoon look.

Take the same shot with the F31fd and you will definitely see eyes
there. You will not see the pupil though ;-)

For some reason, Fuji guys think that favor NR over details. With
this atitude, 8x8 area of noisy eyes and brows are neglect able :-(

Sorry Fuji processing unit (Real Photo ??) guys - you failed.
Probably, the CCD design team have done a much better/natural job.
I wish this camera had a RAW mode.

BTW, my Fuji S3 Pro RAW has much more details in ISO 1600.

Click to expand...

--
http://photobucket.com/albums/y260/tdkd13/

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Assaf..I know it's a week from Thursday nite...Enjoy!

Please look at the Ricoh R8 Samples:

http://www.ricoh.com/r_dc/r/r8/sampleimage.html

Panny FX 35 Samples:

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/gallery/models/fx35_fx36.html

Panny TZ5 Samples:

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/gallery/models/tz5_tz4_tz15_tz11.html

Panny LZ 10 Samples:

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/gallery/models/lz10_lz8.html

How do they compare IQ wise..to the Fuji???
Thank you!
I am trying to find the best IQ of this bunch...

Nikon shows the most natural results.

You can check the P5100 which is a great example even when using noisy 12MP CCD.
look at the follwing link when comparing the P5100 to the F50fd
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilmf50fd/page14.asp

I totally desagree with the reviewer and I think that the P5100 looks better - way more natural. Its noise pattern looks like a very fine grain. There are barely NR artifacts. Please examine the writings on the batteries - the Nikon wins with a not so convincing Sony CCD.

I repeat, my claim is that the main reason to choose Fuji is the CCD technology gap between Fuji and Sony (unfortunately, Matsushita is out of the competition). The unique pixel design gives better sharpness per pixel for both horizontal & vertical frequency. Therefore, Fuji needs to apply much less sharpening during or after the demosaic process.

You can check a great example for the Fuji RAW and JPG gap
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/fuji/finepix_s6000fd-review/

Check the cat example and see that the cartoon ugly look is in the jpg and the rawhas very fine good looking grain.

When comparing Nikon raw vs. jpg, you would not see such gap.

Please Fuji - buy the processing engine from Nikon or just add a raw capability to your cameras.

Please Nikon - buy the CCD from Fuji !!!
You are already selling your DSLR body to Fuji.

BTW,

Pana uses Matsushita's CCD, which is the worst one, and their processing engine (Venus ??) is terrible.

Canon are in the 2nd place with good NR algo but with some visible NR artifact. Sharper than Nikon's but less natural.

the Canon G9 bests the Nikon 5100 in IQ despite (apparently) using the identical Sony sensor.

jimr said:

the Canon G9 bests the Nikon 5100 in IQ despite (apparently) using
the identical Sony sensor.

Click to expand...

Straight from the cam there would be no contest ... where Nikon usually excels is in leaving their images with a dSLR like lack of extremes. A little soft, a little subdued in color, but very realistic and very easy to post process.

This however, is probably one of the main reasons that they lost out to the Canons and the Sonys of the world after starting out so strong with the 950 and 990 units ...

--
http://letkeman.net/Photos
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com

Which small p&s do you believe has the best IQ (aside form the Sigma)?
Looking at my list....any standout..or none and you reccommend others???...

I'm looking at OOC or litttle PP.....11 x 14 prints maximum... little cropping......only considering ISO 80 to 400 with more concern up to ISO 200.
My list is:
Fuji F100fd
Panny FX35 and TZ5 and LZ10 (only 30 mm) but great control over parameters.
Ricoh R8
They all have at least 28 mm wide angle capability.
Thank you!
Now if I'd settle for 35 mm wide...
Pixel Peeping...not relevant.

And here are the links to some samples:
Please look at the Ricoh R8 Samples:

http://www.ricoh.com/r_dc/r/r8/sampleimage.html

Panny FX 35 Samples:

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/gallery/models/fx35_fx36.html

Panny TZ5 Samples:

http://panasonic.co.jp/ ... ... lumix/gallery/models/tz5_tz4_tz15_tz11.html

Panny LZ 10 Samples:

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/gallery/models/lz10_lz8.html

jimr said:

Which small p&s do you believe has the best IQ (aside form the Sigma)?
Looking at my list....any standout..or none and you reccommend
others???...
I'm looking at OOC or litttle PP.....11 x 14 prints maximum... little
cropping......only considering ISO 80 to 400 with more concern up to
ISO 200.
My list is:
Fuji F100fd
Panny FX35 and TZ5 and LZ10 (only 30 mm) but great control over
parameters.
Ricoh R8
They all have at least 28 mm wide angle capability.
Thank you!
Now if I'd settle for 35 mm wide...
Pixel Peeping...not relevant.

Click to expand...

From your list - I would recommend the F100fd.

Otherwise, the E900 can be a good candidate, especially in RAW mode.
The Nikon P5000 is a good candidate. The P5100 has better focus but lose in IQ.

jimr said:

Which small p&s do you believe has the best IQ (aside form the Sigma)?
Looking at my list....any standout..or none and you reccommend
others???...
I'm looking at OOC or litttle PP.....11 x 14 prints maximum... little
cropping......only considering ISO 80 to 400 with more concern up to
ISO 200.
My list is:
Fuji F100fd
Panny FX35 and TZ5 and LZ10 (only 30 mm) but great control over
parameters.
Ricoh R8
They all have at least 28 mm wide angle capability.
Thank you!
Now if I'd settle for 35 mm wide...
Pixel Peeping...not relevant.

Click to expand...

jimr said:

Which small p&s do you believe has the best IQ (aside form the Sigma)?
Looking at my list....any standout..or none and you reccommend
others???...

Click to expand...

I'm still perfectly happy (ecstatic) with my F11 ... so I'm a bad one to ask I suppose

I give you Thom Hogan's choice ... he is a respected professional photographer, photography teacher (just got back from a trip to Patagonia with a dozen students). and reviewer of Nikon and Fuji dSLR equipment:

"Some sort of compact. If I'm seriously shooting with the compact, it's the Ricoh Caprio GX-100 or the Leica D-Lux 3. If I'm not seriously shooting with the compact, the Nikon P5000 is fine."

I haven't checked those out, so I don't know what they can do that the ones on your list can do, if anything. I suspect that all compacts are decent these days with very few exceptions. Unless you want to shoot concerts and parties, and then things get trickier.

The cleanliness of the Fuji Fxx series is not quite matched by anyone yet, so I gotta say that I'd go for an F11 or F31fd ... the F40fd lacks A/S control for concerts, and the F50fd seems to have wicket color shifts in the shadows ... the last thing you want as a concert shooter.

But for daytime only, I might go back to my Nikon roots and get the P5000. The old 990 makes lovely images, but suffers badly from slow response times.

If I just wanted to pick one to try for fun, the F100fd would probably be on the list, but I'd be prepared to dislike the high ISO response in shadows.

As for 11x14 prints ... I could be happy with 3mp for that ...

jimr said:

I'm looking at OOC or litttle PP.....11 x 14 prints maximum... little
cropping......only considering ISO 80 to 400 with more concern up to
ISO 200.
My list is:
Fuji F100fd
Panny FX35 and TZ5 and LZ10 (only 30 mm) but great control over
parameters.
Ricoh R8
They all have at least 28 mm wide angle capability.
Thank you!
Now if I'd settle for 35 mm wide...
Pixel Peeping...not relevant.

Click to expand...

--
http://letkeman.net/Photos
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com

Radu

Whilst I agree that the image is quite good in some respects - low CA - it is still overprocessed. I wouldn't mind if a camera that doesn't offer RAW had some sort of control over the amount noise reduction processing. I own a S6500 and I don't like its overprocessed JPEG output and every Fuji since the F31 has fallen victim to this trait. However, most compact cameras are similar.

Cheers

rocklobster said:

Radu

Whilst I agree that the image is quite good in some respects - low CA

• it is still overprocessed.

Click to expand...

rocklobster said:

However, most compact cameras are similar.

Click to expand...

You are right, we should not forget that this is a compact camera which is able to do some things we could not dream about ten or even five years ago.

I am amazed on how a lot of people expect from a 150 grams pocket camera to deliver great images able to be enlarged at 14" and with low noise at quite high ISO.

I had the pleasure to work with film and I doubt many people expected to enlarge a 35 mm, 400 ISO negative shot with a compact camera to such sizes and get great results

Radu Grozescu

http://www.RaduGrozescu.com
Corporate & Editorial Photography

Kim..Assaf .do you feel that with in camera adjustments, the P5100 can produce images that are equal to the Canon G9 IQ wise OOC?

If not, what 'problems' does the Nikon have? Do you have suggested settings for OOC for the P5100?

It's iinteresting that Tom likes the Ricoh as it did not test out wonderfully here.
I do eagerly await the Ricoh R8 test that is in the works here.
Thanks again!
Jim

advantage;
From the dpreview Fuji F50fd test:

"Anyway, the sensor/processing unit of the F50fd is quite an achievement. From ISO 200-800 it puts most of the competition to shame, and even ISO 1600 can produce usable output within limits. Images show natural colors and good detail, there's no need to spend hours with your imaging software to get pictures ready for print, they are perfect straight out of the box. It might not look great at a pixel level, but you can say that about most current cameras, and with 12 megapixels who's going to be looking that close? (if you are, I'm afraid you need an SLR)."

The F100fd has an even newer sensor (8th generation) than the F50fd and a newer processing engine.
I think the jury is still out on the F100fd.

jimr said:

Kim..Assaf .do you feel that with in camera adjustments, the P5100
can produce images that are equal to the Canon G9 IQ wise OOC?
If not, what 'problems' does the Nikon have? Do you have suggested
settings for OOC for the P5100?

It's iinteresting that Tom likes the Ricoh as it did not test out
wonderfully here.
I do eagerly await the Ricoh R8 test that is in the works here.
Thanks again!
Jim

Click to expand...

Waiting for actual production units in owners hands.

jimr said:

Kim..Assaf .do you feel that with in camera adjustments, the P5100
can produce images that are equal to the Canon G9 IQ wise OOC?
If not, what 'problems' does the Nikon have? Do you have suggested
settings for OOC for the P5100?

Click to expand...

No idea ... I just mentioned Nikon because I like their conservative approach to processing in their P&S line ... and that's what I like about the F11.

Interesting that the D300 is very aggressive about saturation ... quite a difference from previous generations ...

--
http://letkeman.net/Photos
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com

Kim...I hava a Nikon D40 with a 18 to 135 Nikon optic...6MP looks great!
I love them. The D40 is a steal of a deal.

jimr said:

Kim...I hava a Nikon D40 with a 18 to 135 Nikon optic...6MP looks great!
I love them. The D40 is a steal of a deal.

Click to expand...

Agreed ... superb cam at all ISOs to 1600, excellent optics. And tiny. I almost went for a D40x to complement my D2Hs, but realized that I wanted to shrink my body count, not grow it and settled on trading the D2Hs for the D300.

I still might buy a D60 for travel ... the size is very seductive.

--
http://letkeman.net/Photos
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com

I think this picture shot in ISO100 shows terrible NR blurring, look at the trees on the right. It looks like a painting ! At such a low ISO !

To make sure this was not normal, I compared with a quite similar picture taken with my F10, and I can't see any "painting effect"...

I'm really disappointed here.

"There is price, but sometimes the best products demand a premium and the D300 is no exception. Nikon's biggest problem now will be bettering the D300; it raises the bar to a new high, and represents the state of the art despite strong competition from the likes of Canon, Sony and Olympus. There's simply no better semi-professional digital SLR on the market."

I am quite intrigued at the manner in which most compact cameras perform NR on images where most are overprocessed to remove any hint of noise when the noise itself may not be that objectionable.

A case in point is the Canon G9 where the NR is kept low to keep as much detail as possible. Owners of this camera rave about the IQ and it's probably because of this.

Also, with my own S6500, when I capture in RAW, I only remove some of the noise - probably the more visible chroma noise - so as to retain detail. The result being visually better than the overprocessed JPEG out of the camera.

Now, I understand that the algorithms used in cameras may be that way for reasons of speed and/or memory usage but anyone who has used Fujifilms own RAW processing software would notice that the noise reduced RAW images look uncannily like (when pixel peeping) the JPEGs out of the camera. Same algorithm, I suspect.

Cheers