How long till the *others* make a "DSLR"- P&S?

mpmp

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U know, Canon, FujiFilm, Nikon, Oly, Panny etc.

For sure some of them must be thinking about a full size sensor P&S

Would have working prototypes by now??

Cheers and GodBless.

M/P

--
'Everyday above earth is a goooood day'
Mike Mad-Dog Adam

F420 [Sold]
S6500SD YUK! [For 2 weeks]
NikonD40 18/55 [For 3 weeks]
F20 [It rocks!]
Coolpix 880 [Have NOT used it yet!]
 
My guess is that Canon will be the first, but not earlier than the fourth quarter of 2009.
--
Ian Gianni
 
The Canikon empire are not going to produce a high end / high IQ compact anytime soon for 2 very simple reasons :-

1) Anything in a compact format that approaches DSLR IQ is going to have a detrimental effect on their DSLR/lens cash cows. Canikon are not silly enough to shoot themselves in the foot.

2) The current 'state of the art' allows you to have a small sensor/flexible lens type compact (ie..G9) or a large sensor/fixed lens type compact (ie..DP1) but the current 'state of the art' doesn't allow you to have a large sensor/flexible lens arrangement and still retain the compact format.

Never say never, but I am pretty sure we are still a few years and a few technology leaps away from the ideal large sensor/flexible lens compact

Steve
 
A FF sensor is and will for the forseeable future remian way too expensive.
Too few will pay the price for a single lens camera without phase detect AF.

But APS-C and 3/4rds (and 1.7x) are good sizes for cost/performanc
so it's possible they will follow Sigma's lead.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden
 
My money would be on Olympus.

Not only have they produced superb small cameras in the past (e.g. the XA) but the 4/3rds chip would be an ideal size to use for the purpose.

--
Thanks,
Gary.
 
...who is the father of pancakes ?
U know, Canon, FujiFilm, Nikon, Oly, Panny etc.

For sure some of them must be thinking about a full size sensor P&S

Would have working prototypes by now??

Cheers and GodBless.

M/P

--
'Everyday above earth is a goooood day'
Mike Mad-Dog Adam

F420 [Sold]
S6500SD YUK! [For 2 weeks]
NikonD40 18/55 [For 3 weeks]
F20 [It rocks!]
Coolpix 880 [Have NOT used it yet!]
 
I wouldn't be surprised if it would happen this August-September. I think the 4/3 sensor is an ideal candidate for an advanced P&S with large sensor. Other manufacturers will respond the same as they did in case of LiveView. Olympus pioneered it some two-three years back, now it's in every entry level dslr. And I believe the same will happen with DP1.

--
Ricoh GR/GRD/GX100 Forum
http://www.ricohforum.com
 
Except of course that is a DSLR, even if it is incredibly small.

I'm picturing something like the old Olympus XA film camera, which was minute considering that it used full frame 35mm film.

--
Thanks,
Gary.
 
Never say never, but I am pretty sure we are still a few years and a
few technology leaps away from the ideal large sensor/flexible lens
compact
The could combine a retractable zoom lens with a retractable camera back. On power on both lens and camera back would extend and on power off they would colapse into a DP1-sized package. Maybe I should patent the concept, hehe, no prior art, right???
 
The Canikon empire
Steve, please keep in mind that Sigma shooters don't have the best of reputations in the general photographic community. Many people see folks like DaSigmaGuy and Mr. Matson as typical of the Sigma users. But most rational people also know that every family tree has a few nuts, and take that into consideration.

But when the whole Sigma user community is tossing out insulting terms like "The Canikon empire", it makes people thing that the whole bushel of apples is rotten. Don't insult the people you're trying to pursued...
are not going to produce a high end / high IQ
compact anytime soon for 2 very simple reasons :-

1) Anything in a compact format that approaches DSLR IQ is going to
have a detrimental effect on their DSLR/lens cash cows. Canikon are
not silly enough to shoot themselves in the foot.
That argument is invalid, for four reasons.

First, a DP1 sells for more than a "cash cow" entry level DSLR and kit lens such as Canon XTi (450D), Nikon D40, Oly E410, etc.

Second, back in the film days (that's just 6 years ago, by the way) Canon, Nikon, Oly (especially Oly), Pentax, etc. all had compact 35mm fixed lens cameras (often with 2:1, 3:1 or 4:1 zooms) on the shelves right alongside their film SLRs.

And third, the original poster mentioned Nikon, Canon, and FUJI (emphasis mine). Fuji doesn't sell lenses for SLRs. Their lens sales only come from their point and shoots (and their medium format market, but that's a different division of Fuji). And Fuji makes their own APS sensors, so an APS compact is a super-duper, ultra-milky cash cow for Fuji: lens, sensor, electronics, mechanism, the whole shebang. Panasonic and Samsung are also looking to move sensors, as is Sony. It's raining cash and cows! Panasonic, Fuji, Samsung, and Sony all play in the SPAS ("Super Point And Shoot") arena, with cameras that look like little DSLRs, cost more than entry level DSLRs with kit lenses, and often have pretty impressive capabilities).

Fourth, upgrade ability is a great selling feature. People buy an upgradable PC over a closed box, even though industry figures say that the upgrade rate for processors is under 1%. The average DLSR user owns 2.2 lenses (CIPA 2007 figures), across the entire camera line, including people like me who own dozens of lenses. At the entry level DSLR, it's down to 1.6.
2) The current 'state of the art' allows you to have a small
sensor/flexible lens type compact (ie..G9) or a large sensor/fixed
lens type compact (ie..DP1) but the current 'state of the art'
doesn't allow you to have a large sensor/flexible lens arrangement
and still retain the compact format.
Actually, it does. They did it with film cameras, years ago.
Never say never, but I am pretty sure we are still a few years and a
few technology leaps away from the ideal large sensor/flexible lens
compact
We are infinitely far away from the "ideal", but the "usable" is here and now.

--
Normally, a signature this small can't open its own jumpgate.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
imho
Because the main weight and size is made by the lens.

There is no big difference in size when mounting a 1DSMKIII or that E420 behind a 300mm lens.

As soon as you want another lens than that pancake you are back to normal DSLR size.
--
http://www.panodrom.com
Gigapixel Panoramas and more :)
 
Never say never, but I am pretty sure we are still a few years and a
few technology leaps away from the ideal large sensor/flexible lens
compact
The could combine a retractable zoom lens with a retractable camera
back. On power on both lens and camera back would extend and on power
off they would colapse into a DP1-sized package. Maybe I should
patent the concept, hehe, no prior art, right???
Actually, there is, going back over 100 years. Many "view cameras" were designed with a wooden frame that served as a central "box" with bellows that extended both rearward (for the film holder and focusing screen) and forward (for the lens board). When collapsed, the lens board and film holder rested against the box and both bellows were completely inside and protected. I have a folder like this. The tripod mount is on the box.

But my favorite folder, by far, is the original Polaroid SX-70 Alpha. That was an instant picture SLR, with an image slightly larger than medium format, but it could fold down to a 1 inch thick "book" that would just barely fit a coat pocket.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sx70

--
Normally, a signature this small can't open its own jumpgate.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
...who is the father of pancakes ?
Carl Zeiss.

Oscar Barnak would be next, with all those wonderful Leica normals and wides living mostly inside the camera, often barely leaving enough aperture and focus rings to operate the lens.

Then would be Nikon, with the 45mm f2.8 "GN", a Tessar for a popular, mainstream camera.

Pentax is sort of the grand daughter of pancakes. ;)

--
Normally, a signature this small can't open its own jumpgate.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
U know, Canon, FujiFilm, Nikon, Oly, Panny etc.

For sure some of them must be thinking about a full size sensor P&S

Would have working prototypes by now??
Of course. Prototypes, market research, cycle plans, the whole 9 yards.

And one more important thing: they all watched the Sony R1 (1.68x crop sensor, pretty much the same size sensor as DP1 or SD14) crash, burn, and die in the market.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydscr1/

That must have set plans for competing cameras back by years, or get them dropped entirely. If Sony, Nikon, Canon, Fuji, etc. had analyzed the R1 failure and said "it would have flown if it had a 28mm f4 fixed lens instead of a 24-120mm f2.8 5:1 zoom", they would all be playing in that field right now. They all have the sensors, they all have more P&S experience body and lens experience than Sigma, they all have better electronics...

--
Normally, a signature this small can't open its own jumpgate.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
imho
Because the main weight and size is made by the lens.
There is no big difference in size when mounting a 1DSMKIII or that
E420 behind a 300mm lens.
But there is a tremendous difference when you mount them behind a 28mm lens.

A 28mm for a wide (equivalent, in 35mm terms) is an extreme retrofocus lens on an SLR. It has a focal length about 1/2 the image diagonal. So, it's a bulky, heavy, complicated affair. It's actually built kind of like a 45mm "normal" with a reverse Galilean wide converter in front of it.

A 28mm wide on a rangefinder, point and shoot, etc. is a symmetrical lens, well under half the size and weight of the SLR lens.

For example, compare a Zeiss Distagon SLR wide with the same focal length Zeiss Biogon rangefinder wide.
As soon as you want another lens than that pancake you are back to
normal DSLR size.
True, except it's the smallest DSLR on the market.

And the pancakes are breeding. In the Pentax line, you have wide, normal, and short tele pancakes. The 77mm is a pretty cool portrait lens.

--
Normally, a signature this small can't open its own jumpgate.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 

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