E-3 probably no, but E-4 with a FOVEON 4/3.... I'm on it.

R Stacy

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.... say in just 6mp x 3. I think it could be done, perhaps even 8mp.

Yep, I'm dreaming........ but thats how the world is built last I checked.

My decision is for now to wait and see. My E-1 is still going and going.. 4 years on ... just fine.

Yep, for sure I'd like faster focus, IS, more MP, etcetera, but a clean 5mp image properly exposed in the first place, or well processed, is, so far as I can tell, upsizeable to 12x16 (inches) easily and perhaps a tad beyond with the right software.

Film is cheap since I converted to digital and I can still click away without much worry 4 years on now. So for me to upgrade to the next OLy body, I need a couple more significant items than the E-3 is offering at this price point, namely, and in order of importance:

1.) Staggering WOW factor on IQ, beyond any camera available at this price $2Kish range.

2.) Accurate and reassuring CAS. (probably not going to happen)

3.) More than 5fps....... preferrably 8fps minimum.

I think the DR issue with the E-3 is largely overhyped, but clearly an issue in some situations. The only way I can (currently) see the above issues terminatedly resolved is with a different "type" of sensor, or some new discovery perhaps leaps and bounds beyond the current small pixel physics limitation.

4/3 is plenty enough linear footage if OLy would use something along the lines of the (currently available) Foveon sensor in 4/3 format. Say, 18 to 24mp 6 or 8 x 3. Now THAT would get my juices rather riled up and I might have to forgo another new chrome part for my Harley.

Just my .02 for now OLYMPUS....... food for thought if ya haven't (and I bet you have).

In the meantime, I'll likely pick up a 410 or 510 or successor to play with in addition to my E-1........ and of course more incredible Olympus lenses. WHY? Well, note the lenses aformentioned, one, two, nothing from any of the other players, while good, are enough enticing for me to switch systems at this point.

What say you ?

--



http://www.pbase.com/thealaskan
 
I bought the Oly system several years ago, because it was the only self-cleaning chip in the market.

I now have the e300, and a Lumix L1. I bought the Russian fisheye, and a Zeiss 50mm Planar, which I use with adapters. I have a Lensbaby 2. I have never had a dust mote.

With more and more diodes being packed onto the same real estate, I think there will be a hook-up with Foveon. Their current chip gives the results of a 10mp Bayer. I am looking forward to the DP1, but will watch the market closely.

Who knows for sure. We'll probably see the immediate future at Photokina. Sony will probably show their FF model there, which will prod others to up the ante. The one way of increasing IQ, with a limit to the cropped chips, is to go the Foveon route.

BTW, I used to live in Anchorage. I drove there from DC for the Iditarod, and found a job...but it didn't last, so I'm back in the East Coast. It's too bad, I liked it there.

My gallery: http://ubereye.deviantart.com/
 
X3F sensor. Unless Foveon somehow had a trick to completely revamp it. At its present state and size ( larger than 4/3 ) its still not delivering enough resolution and certainly problematic in anything higher than ISO 200 ( DR, noise, and color )

The DR problem in 4/3 unfortunately is very real and the AF/ metering issue is nothing new either. While a advanced / semi-PRo / PRO grade DSLR is very much about the Imaging. These other feature/performance are also very much in the pipeline. And Oly need to work on all of them before they can really claim top notch companion with the like of Nikon D3 or similar ....

As it is, the E-3 is a tough ( weather sealing ) vs other semi-PRO models say the Nikon D300, but overall lacks behind in many other area. Some more than others. most are minor by that account alone, but combined, that is not just a simple 1+1=2 equation then ...

Regarding Sensors. The only proven sensor that can take great high ISO image is the Fuji Super-CCD-HR and the only sensor proven working with extreme DR is the Fuji Super-CCD SR. So clearly Fuji know a lot about how to image. which shouldn't surprise. While other sensor Mfr are just as experience. None are so experience as Fuji in actual photographic imaging ( hey Fuji been making that since early days of film ). By that account I would be having more confident in a 4/3 Super-CCD variant although I am not hopeful for that ...

--
  • Franka -
 
a complete flop? Horrible colors and even worse high ISO performance. Its only saving grace is perhaps the pixel sharpness... which can be attained using conventional sensors. Olympus need only make the AA filter on the E3 removable.

---------------------------------
Colors of my world:
thw.smugmug.com
 
Regarding Sensors. The only proven sensor that can take great high
ISO image is the Fuji Super-CCD-HR and the only sensor proven working
with extreme DR is the Fuji Super-CCD SR. So clearly Fuji know a lot
about how to image. which shouldn't surprise. While other sensor Mfr
are just as experience. None are so experience as Fuji in actual
photographic imaging ( hey Fuji been making that since early days of
film ). By that account I would be having more confident in a 4/3
Super-CCD variant although I am not hopeful for that ...
Have you never heard of Kodak?

--
--
mumbo jumbo
 
Hi thw
a complete flop? Horrible colors and even worse high ISO performance.
I usually don't debate on technical things like this, but I find your statement a little strong. I'm using a SD14, and I know of the shortcomings in high ISO, I think this problem is most apparent when shooting incandescent, the blue channel gets washed away. Otherwise I think that due to less in-camera processing compared to other DSLRs, you have to do more after processing work yourself, and usually end up with photos that are far from horrible. I shoot 90% in RAW and for those of us who shoot mainly at ISO50 and ISO100, you are rewarded with very clean and sharp images, and even great colors.
Its only saving grace is perhaps the pixel sharpness... which can be
attained using conventional sensors. Olympus need only make the AA
filter on the E3 removable.
I think people should look at the Foveon cameras as an option, but not as a complete failure, just because it doesn't do what suits you. They really aren't that bad!

H.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/eirod/
 
I am not buying one this year because we are buying a new home, and because we have two highly capable DSLRs (the E-1 and the D70) already. I really like the idea of a big, bright viewfinder and fast image review, both improvements over my E-1, and the high number plus highly sensible arrangement of the all-crosshatched, all-biaxial AF points are also desirable. But we can live with what we have now and maybe the E-3 will eventually sink in price so that I can get one next year.

As regards Foveon, it has a distinct advantage over any Bayer sensor - of any resolution - when it comes to the sort of detail like grass, hair or fabric, where Bayer interpolation fails big time. But the technology is still in its infancy and has some issues not yet resolved.

A Fujifilm SuperCCD SR the size of a FourThirds sensor would be more interesting to me. Never mind the pixel count, just give me two stops of extra highlight range!
 
do not seem to deliver much on this consumer end of product any more ... Even their last DSLR use other's sensor instead of their own ... in fact if one read their imaging sensor product catalog, they do had a variety of sensor that could be utilized, but yet not a single one made it into any 4/3 ( or any other Consumer market DSLR for the matter ) bar those for medium format digital back. The only sensor current for 4/3 on Kodak roster are the 8 & 10 MP one quite probably the one for the E500 & E400 respectively.

One can only speculate why and what had come of Kodak ... although Kodak been claiming to go digital for quite a while ... the only Consumer ( as in non industrial/military/medical/scientific etc ... ) Kodak media we can get these days is the good old FILM

--
  • Franka -
 
X3F sensor. Unless Foveon somehow had a trick to completely revamp
it. At its present state and size ( larger than 4/3 ) its still not
delivering enough resolution and certainly problematic in anything
higher than ISO 200 ( DR, noise, and color )
Personally I disagree with Franka's opinion.. I regularly use the SD14 camera; just took 11GB+ photos in February at PMA, LV, and Death Valley.

Not just my opinion, but see http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr and the approx 100,000 photos on search-by-camera at pbase http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma
Best regards, Sandy
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann (Death Valley, work in progress)
 
Yep, I'm dreaming.
1. Panasonic is a 4/3s partner; Foveon is not (and also not Japanese. Neither was Kodak, but at least they have a long term presence.)

2. One of the primary strengths of the E1/E3 are the in-camera JPEGS. This is the weak spot for Foveon, particularly any any decent frame rate. There just does not seem to be support for a high-speed/high-quality processing pipeline (e.g. the DP1 delay.)

--
Erik
 
The DR problem in 4/3 unfortunately is very real and the AF/ metering
issue is nothing new either. While a advanced / semi-PRo / PRO grade
DSLR is very much about the Imaging. These other feature/performance
are also very much in the pipeline. And Oly need to work on all of
them before they can really claim top notch companion with the like
of Nikon D3 or similar ....
I think Canon needs to work on this as well before claiming a top notch companion with the D3...

Is it really fair to compare an E-3 to a D3? The E-3 will never approach the characteristics of the D3, I think D300 is a better comparison.

--
Tim
'Be the change you wish to see in the world.' -Mahatma Gandhi
http://www.flickr.com/photos/timskis6/
 
Thats coming , for sure!

Maybe as an E3MKII

--
iThink, therefore iMac
 
I am pleased with my E-3 but i am also interested in a future E- with a foveon sensor. I would eventually like a camera with more resolution for landscape photography. I am not so concerned with DR and noise issues as I am with diffraction limitations that would come with more megapixels. I don't want to be limited to using only f 5.6 or wider open. Someone may be able to address the physics of this, but would, say a 3x8 mp foveon image upsized to 15 mp have diffraction characteristics based on the original pixel size/density? -Pete.

http://rusk.area.arts.alliance.googlepages.com/peterolson
 
I am pleased with my E-3 but i am also interested in a future E-
with a foveon sensor. I would eventually like a camera with more
resolution for landscape photography. I am not so concerned with DR
and noise issues as I am with diffraction limitations that would come
with more megapixels.
That's a myth. The single pixels will each be more affected by diffraction
but on an image level you will not get more diffraction since there are more
pixels making up the image and less demands on each pixel.
I don't want to be limited to using only f 5.6
or wider open. Someone may be able to address the physics of this,
but would, say a 3x8 mp foveon image upsized to 15 mp have
diffraction characteristics based on the original pixel size/density?
If you are going to read 3x8=24 Mp off the sensor and store it
I'd prefer a 24 Mp Bayer for more resolution, thanks.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden
 
I am pleased with my E-3 but i am also interested in a future E-
with a foveon sensor. I would eventually like a camera with more
resolution for landscape photography. I am not so concerned with DR
and noise issues as I am with diffraction limitations that would come
with more megapixels.
That's a myth. The single pixels will each be more affected by
diffraction
but on an image level you will not get more diffraction since there
are more
pixels making up the image and less demands on each pixel.
I don't want to be limited to using only f 5.6
or wider open. Someone may be able to address the physics of this,
but would, say a 3x8 mp foveon image upsized to 15 mp have
diffraction characteristics based on the original pixel size/density?
If you are going to read 3x8=24 Mp off the sensor and store it
I'd prefer a 24 Mp Bayer for more resolution, thanks.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden
Erik- I hope you're right on this but do you mean if you keep the print size constant and increase the megapixels the diffractions is not important?. If I had more pixels I would be inclined to increase print size, say 16 x 20 inches at about 240 dpi with a 15 mp sensor versus 11 x 15 inches again at about 240 dpi with a 10 mp sensor. (Sorry, but it's quicker for me to think in inches rather than centimeters). Would the diffraction effects be more pronounced in the larger print? This seems to be suggested by the calculator in this article. -Pete

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/diffraction-photography.htm

http://rusk.area.arts.alliance.googlepages.com/peterolson
 
Yes, but can it do live view, which seems a must today. (I like it anyway).

There might be too much heat build up in the CCD.

--
WarrenKK

PetPeeve: posting a 800x600 to show anything other than how soft my lens is or why I need new glasses.
 

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