Need help deciding: DA70 vs FA77

Not the first time one ask the question, but I've yet to see side by side what the special something the FA77 has that the DA70 lacks.

Test (photozone) shows the DA70 with superior consistency in sharpness albeit not quite as sharp at its best and not as bright. On paper the FA77 seems to have nothing to impress anyone in term of sharpness consistency wide open with a significant variance from center to edge until f5.6; however, does better on CA and somewhat better at F2.8 on Vignetting, but not significantly different from f4.0.

Therefore, ignoring the f1.8 advantage over the f2.4, it would be fantastic to see same picture side-by-side at F2.8 through F5.6. Does anyone knows a link that would provide such comparison so I can see and appreciate from my own eyes what is that special thing that can't really be defined that the FA77 has?

Max aperture and price isn't a factor in my choice. Small size of DA70 is attractive, but not a must. APS-C vs FF not a factor. The primary factor I really care about here in deciding which to buy, is the quality of the resulting images.

i.e. I need to be convinced that the 77mm is giving superior images at similar apertures.

tx

--
Roger

There is some, albeit small, difference between the two. However by the time pics are resized for Internet any diff is virtually gone -- not much point comparing side by side.

Every shot from my 77 gives me a little "wow" compared to my other lenses. Sometimes I'm tempted to downgrade it to the 70 & pocket $200 diff but not sure if I will get these little wows with 70, so no jump yet.

I'd be interested in side-by-side pictures too. I have the 77 and its rendering capabilities are just out of this world. This is hard to describe, and impossible to measure. Resolution tests are, to me, completely unimportant if the rendering capabilities of the lens are bad (bokeh, microcontrast and the like).

I like using fast lenses. I frequently use my 77 at f/2.0. I like the shallow DOF (which is easier to get the longer the lens) and the ability to photograph in lower light.

I don't like the lack of quick shift and the color bias of the 77 - it's too warm. I would much prefer the more neutral colors of the 70 and it would be a much nicer travel lens, but I would still hesitate to sacrifice speed. f 2.4 is too close to f 2.8 to be worth buying a 70mm prime for IMO. If I was going to get something at close to that max aperture and close to that focal length, it would probably the DFA 50 or 100, not the DA 70.

-Matt

--

... interested in .... photographs? Heh? Know what a mean? Photographs? (He asked him knowingly). Nudge nudge, snap snap, grin grin, wink wink, say no more, say no more, know what a' mean? Know what a' mean?

http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/home#section=ARTIST&subSection=183820&subSubSection=0&language=EN

Weigh the pros and cons of each, and then decide:

DA70:
Smaller and lighter.
Slightly shorter focal length.
Focus Shift
Less Expensive.

FA77
Faster maximum aperture.
Slightly longer focal length.

Several here claim that the rendering characteristics are quite similar, taking into consideration the difference in focal length. I opted for the DA70, and thoroughly enjoy the lens.

I love my DA70, but I haven't tried a FA77 yet.

Only weaknesses I've found:

• The DA70 shows a little CA at f/2.4 in extreme contrast situations (supposedly, the FA77 may be better here).

• On a few occasions, I've sweared at the minimum focusing distance of 70 cm (but the FA77 has the same limit, and the 7mm won't give you much...).

On the positive side, compared to the FA77:

• DA70 is very fast focusing, and I've recently had positive experiences with fast moving kids, AF.C and continuous shooting. I'm pretty sure it beats the FA77 by a good margin here.

• It's less expensive

• It's extremely small and good-looking. Camera-interested non-pentaxians tend to ask me what that little lens on my camera is

Here's one of my first shots with the DA70, shot the next day after I bought it in Osaka:



--
Espen

gazonk said:

• The DA70 shows a little CA at f/2.4 in extreme contrast situations

(supposedly, the FA77 may be better here).

Click to expand...

No, the FA77 also suffers from CA. I'd think that the CA from the FA77 is even worse than in the DA because the FA77 has a larger aperture.

Peter Jonkman said:

No, the FA77 also suffers from CA. I'd think that the CA from the
FA77 is even worse than in the DA because the FA77 has a larger
aperture.

Click to expand...

Ah, OK. Anyway, "even worse" is probably not the right expression, the DA70's CA is very mild, after all, and I think I've only noticed it in slightly OOF areas.
--
Espen

I take most of my professionnal portraits with the 70 now.
It is small, discret, and doesn't impress the model at all.

Regarding the quality, you cannot measure. It is a more global impression when you enlarge the photo at the max.
It is a very valuable lens, quite unique.
I can't work without it.
--
Regards
Francois

http://www.pbase.com/richardday/da70_vs_fa77

although not real field test...which are here:

http://digi.163.com/06/1103/10/2V0DUTSQ001618EI.html

I have chosen the 77...faster, the old style of rendering, works on my MV too...
--
-Sorin-
http://sorinat.webhosting-for-free.com/

sorinat said:

although not real field test...which are here:

http://digi.163.com/06/1103/10/2V0DUTSQ001618EI.html

Click to expand...

Interesting. I think the rendering looks suprisingly similar on the two lenses. But is it just me, or does the DA70 have a tiny bit better contrast?

But one sure can't go wrong with any of them...
--
Espen

That was very helpful, thank you. I've made my choice ... I think.. ;-) better order it fast before I change my mind again...

--
Roger

in deciding which of the 2 lenses to buy, i found out that popphoto.com has lens test results of both lenses. this includes some comment on which to buy right at the end of the reviews. i found the words very interesting.

i looked at both 70 and 77. the 70 is in my camera bag.

I'll second the opinion that resolution tests are not all-important. Don't get me wrong - I want a sharp lens as much as the next person, but the important thiing is how that sharpness manifests itself in real shooting situations.

Case in point: this afternoon, I picked up my new 77 limited. Before walking out the door, I snapped some pictures of a price tag across the aisle (roughly 6 inches square at a distance of say 6 feet). Result: disappointment - at an aperture of 3.2, the centre didn't have the outstanding sharpness I had been expecting based on online reviews. The sales person suggested I take his portrait. Fair enough - I want this lens primarily for portraits anyway. Result: ecstacy - unbelievable detail around the facial features and a wonderfully blurred background (this has to be what they refer to as a "3D" look). I strongly suspect that this lens (or at least my copy) performs better with 3D subjects than flat ones (like test charts). In the end, these are the subjects that matter most to me. Conclusion: sold.

I guess the 70 will be in my bag too very shortly as I hit the buy button minutes ago...

I was a hard decision as I have seen such beautiful 77mm and 70mm shots. I've Googled images for both lenses and found quite comparable images, a tad cooler colors it would seem with the DA (which is a known characteristic, and which I like) that matches what I'm getting with my DA40 very closely.

Since my indented use isn't portrait primarily, I favored the edge to center consistency of the DA70. I can see in a way that the resolution variance from edge to center of the FA77 could actually contribute to a better 3D effect in portraits, where soft borders and sharp center can be a quality, but for landscape/cityscape I prefer the overall consistency of the DA70.

Thank you all again, that makes pancake prime #2 in the bag.

--
Roger

Roger, maybe I should have waited for this thread to appear as I just pulled the trigger on the purchase of my FA 77mm yesterday. However, here are the things I considered and I probably would make the same decision.

1. One of the uses I wanted this lens for was portraits. Even Photozone was impressed with the bokeh that the 77mm produced and described it as buttery. That was an important factor for me.

2. Who knows when the production of the 77mm will be halted. If that happens, will it become a cult favorite like the 85mm and have the price skyrocket to over $1,100 dollars and be hard to get? Then will be you be kicking yourself for not having picked up one when they were available?

3. I also have a Pentax PZ-1P camera that I still like using (especially in low light situations) and I can use this lens on it.

4. I truely believe that the direction of the digital SLR industry is headed towards making a full size sensor less expensive and available for the average consumer. And if not the average consumer, I still think Pentax will release a DSLR of their own that has the full size sensor. If that materializes, I can use the 77mm on that camera and not have to buy another lens. If not, I still have a very good lens that may become a collectors item.

I don't know if these rationalizations will help or confuse the issue for you, but it was the process I went through and I made my decision. Good luck on yours.

Regards, Jim

topgun2007 said:

4. I truely believe that the direction of the digital SLR industry
is headed towards making a full size sensor less expensive

Click to expand...

Item (4) should not be counted into consideration as DA70 has been shown to cover film-frame competently.

Kanguru said:

topgun2007 said:

4. I truely believe that the direction of the digital SLR industry
is headed towards making a full size sensor less expensive

Click to expand...

Item (4) should not be counted into consideration as DA70 has been
shown to cover film-frame competently.

Click to expand...

If you check the Pentax website it states "the Pentax DA series is engineered exclusively for digital cameras". I take that to mean that it is designed to work with the size of the sensor they incorporate in their DSLR's and not a film camera size sensor. Maybe their engineers don't know what they are talking about? I don't know about you but I think I will take my chances on a lens that was designed for a film camera and possilby down the road for a sensor in a DSLR that is a film-frame size.

topgun2007 said:

Kanguru said:

topgun2007 said:

4. I truely believe that the direction of the digital SLR industry
is headed towards making a full size sensor less expensive

Click to expand...

Item (4) should not be counted into consideration as DA70 has been
shown to cover film-frame competently.

Click to expand...

If you check the Pentax website it states "the Pentax DA series is
engineered exclusively for digital cameras". I take that to mean
that it is designed to work with the size of the sensor they
incorporate in their DSLR's and not a film camera size sensor. Maybe
their engineers don't know what they are talking about? I don't know
about you but I think I will take my chances on a lens that was
designed for a film camera and possilby down the road for a sensor in
a DSLR that is a film-frame size.

Click to expand...

Specification is one thing; there's nothing to stop the engineers exceeding specifications. A highly-experienced person on this forum has gone thru the hassles of putting DA70 on a film camera and posted the scanned results for all to see.

Someone was stating that the difference in image circle is minimal for telephoto lenses between full frame and APS-C, that is it doesn't buy you much of anything (weight or cost) to have the image circle cover a 35mm sensor vs APS-C sensor. So I imagine most of the telephoto DA lenses should work fine on film. For the wide angles, the DA lenses that cover an APS-C sensor can be much smaller than those that cover full frame, so they gain some weight and cost savings buy using smaller lenses, etc.

I just bought the DA 70mm, mainly due to cost. I got a good deal on one. If I had found a similar deal I would have bought the FA 77mm. They both are excellent lenses and I wouldn't hesitate to buy either. I just can't wait until mine shows up!