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Do I open Door Number 1 or Door Number 2?

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mcomisar

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I'm looking for opinions and advice... I like to consider myself an intermediate to advanced amateur. Im certainly not a pro, but im a pretty serious hobbiest. I have a bonus check coming from work and a rebate check coming from the gov, and I'd like to update my body. I shoot primarily landscapes and nature. I like wildlife, but they usually dont come out for me. I'm getting more into people shots and would like to shoot weddings at some point -- anyone looking for an assistant in the twin cities area :)?

Here are the two options I'm considering... Id like to know your thoughts and if you have any suggestions. Thanks!

My current setup:
Rebel XT - I want to upgrade for better AF and better high ISO performance.
10-22
17-40L
50 1.8
60 2.8 macro
70-200 f4 IS
85 1.8
400 5.6

Door Number 1:
Canon 40D - $1150
Canon 35L - $900 used

Door Number 2:
Canon 5D and 24-105L package $2750 - ~$500 for selling 10-22 = $2250

This would put the 35 on hold for a while. Possibly also sell the 60 2.8 since i rarely use it.

Either way, I will keep my XT for backup. Question: how does the AF system and high ISO performance compare between the 40D and 5D? How does the 40D/10-22/17-40 compare with the 5D/17-40/24-105 for landscapes? And finally, just give me your two cents :)

Thanks everyone.

PS roughly when are spring rebates? I can never remember the timing.
--
Marshall
http://www.pbase.com/mcomisar
 
OK, I'm the bad guy in the FF feeding frenzy. I bought a 5D when it came out, and I sold it within a year. FF is nice, but I have several FF film cameras that can out perform the 5D in every way, and I always felt that the 5D was a one trick pony. The 5D is a slug of a camera. The next version will no doubt be much better, but it will not offer the pure utility of an APS-C camera like the 40D.

I will no doubt buy a new FF DSLR when it pleases me, but I will likely be long dead before a cheap FF DSLR arrives on the scene, and goads me into dumping my crop sensor cameras. People who bow before the FF altar have no clue as to what they give up when they dump their crop bodies for a 5D. They talk about "upgrading" to the 5D because the 5D costs more, but they are so focused on FF worship that they figure any entry point to FF digital must be good, and they lose sight of what the crop camera offers today, and will continue offering in the future.

Buy a 40D. Outfit it as best as you can, and use EF-S lenses to your advantage. When a cheap FF camera is introduced at the right price, and with the right features, buy it. Just don't get rid of your crop sensor kit when you do so. Some people buy a 5D, and sell all of their crop gear in order to afford it. They take two steps backward because they think that owning a FF camera is a badge of honor. It isn't a badge at all. It is just a camera, and a limited one at that.

OK, that is the alternative opinion to the one offered by the FF faithfull, but it is true. You simply cannot afford a FF camera that can match the 40D function for function (it doesn't exist), and that will be reality for at least a decade to come in the less than $5,000 price range.

Buy a 40D, outfit it with the best lenses for the body, and when a nice FF camera hits the market in time, also buy it. Don't ever think that your crop camera is a burden though, as it is nothing less than a wonderful tool that FF tech has yet to equal (overall) at any affordable price point.

OK, I'll take cover now......

--
Voyager
 
Hi voyager,

I read your post with great interest (I own a 20d among others) and am looking at a 5d. In what aspects is the 5d outperformed by crop camera's? I know that the 5d is slow in fps, but do you have more weak points for the 5d?

thanks,
--
May the vision be with you.

See profile for equipment
 
Telephoto lens for cheaper (built in 1.6x teleconverter in crop body...in terms of view)
MichielB. said:
Hi voyager,

I read your post with great interest (I own a 20d among others) and
am looking at a 5d. In what aspects is the 5d outperformed by crop
camera's? I know that the 5d is slow in fps, but do you have more
weak points for the 5d?

thanks,
--
May the vision be with you.

See profile for equipment
Click to expand...
--


See profile for equipment.
 
If it were me I think I would go for the 5D and the 24-105. The IQ of the 5D is amazing. I wish I could do it.

--
Bill
Keep on keepin' on!
 
Voyager13b said:
OK, I'm the bad guy in the FF feeding frenzy. I bought a 5D when it
came out, and I sold it within a year. FF is nice, but I have several
FF film cameras that can out perform the 5D in every way, and I
always felt that the 5D was a one trick pony. The 5D is a slug of a
camera. The next version will no doubt be much better, but it will
not offer the pure utility of an APS-C camera like the 40D.
Click to expand...
Voyager13b said:
They take two steps backward
because they think that owning a FF camera is a badge of honor. It
isn't a badge at all. It is just a camera, and a limited one at that.

--
Voyager
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice voyager, but can you be specific?

What is the pure quality you are referring to? How is the 5D limited compared to the 40D?

--
Marshall
http://www.pbase.com/mcomisar
 
Intekhab Choudhury said:
If I were you, that's what I would do .... (live with XTi until the
Photokina)

Canon will (may?) announce 5D Mark II then which bound to give you
best of both world + more ... :))

Unless you have to have it now, then go for 5D+24-105 combo.
--
Please checkout my Flickr page
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bahketni
Click to expand...
Yeah, I realize there'll be a new version of the 5D in the (relatively) near future. But, I wont be able to afford it. The only reason I'm considering the 5D now is because of the price drop that it has been going through lately. BH is selling the 5D body for $2100 and the 5D with the 24-105 for only $650 more.... Seems like a pretty sweet deal considering a used 5D is roughly $1800 and a used 24-105 is $900.
--
Marshall
http://www.pbase.com/mcomisar
 
I went through the same mental torture a while back. I bought the 40D with the 24-105 and have no regrets...and saved $700 over the 5D/24-105 combo.

While I may invest in a FF body some time in the future, the 40D does everything I want, and the combination takes some amazing photos.

--
Tim
Still learning after all these years.
 
I tend to agree with Voyager13b. A lot of people say they "upgrade" to a 5D but I don't think they really know what they're are getting or missing. All that means to them is upgrade to a higher priced model. A Mercede must be better than a Toyota right? Or is it? I've looked long and hard for camera upgrade but still could not get to the conclusion 5D or 5D2 is the one.

Price is one obivious disadvantage. You can buy a killer lens with that money and usually it will be a much better "upgrade" for the system. 35L is a good case for op and I upgraded with 85L which no doubt is money better spend than buying a 5D.

There are many other things about 5D that will not do for me but I'll let Voyager13b to list his and I will add mine.
 
mcomisar said:
I'm looking for opinions and advice... I like to consider myself an
intermediate to advanced amateur. Im certainly not a pro, but im a
pretty serious hobbiest. I have a bonus check coming from work and a
rebate check coming from the gov, and I'd like to update my body. I
shoot primarily landscapes and nature. I like wildlife, but they
usually dont come out for me. I'm getting more into people shots and
would like to shoot weddings at some point -- anyone looking for an
assistant in the twin cities area :)?

Here are the two options I'm considering... Id like to know your
thoughts and if you have any suggestions. Thanks!

My current setup:
Rebel XT - I want to upgrade for better AF and better high ISO
performance.
10-22
17-40L
50 1.8
60 2.8 macro
70-200 f4 IS
85 1.8
400 5.6

Door Number 1:
Canon 40D - $1150
Canon 35L - $900 used

Door Number 2:
Canon 5D and 24-105L package $2750 - ~$500 for selling 10-22 = $2250
This would put the 35 on hold for a while. Possibly also sell the 60
2.8 since i rarely use it.

Either way, I will keep my XT for backup. Question: how does the AF
system and high ISO performance compare between the 40D and 5D? How
does the 40D/10-22/17-40 compare with the 5D/17-40/24-105 for
landscapes? And finally, just give me your two cents :)

Thanks everyone.

PS roughly when are spring rebates? I can never remember the timing.
--
Marshall
http://www.pbase.com/mcomisar
Click to expand...
--
Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/jon_b
 
OK let me try first. My opinion is 5D is a good specialty camera but not the best general-purpose camera for me. It probably never will be. Unless you truly need that very thin DOF (even this needs to be qualified by the lens option) and shoot a lot of ISO1600 and/or print 20”x30”, you’ll give up much more than you have gain.

1. Cost. No matter how I look at it I can assemble a better system based on 40D than 5D with the same amount of money.

2. Frame rate is another important one. It really excludes 5D as a good sports/event camera. Of course some will always argue it’s not a problem for them but it’s just not good enough for my applications.

3. Shutter lag. I know quite a few got turned off by the shutter lag of 5D. It’s not fun that you have to stand that kind of response with an “upgraded” system.

4. Telephoto reach. This is a biggie. Many shooting wildlife and sports will be hard pressed to take that 1.6x hit. Added to that is the 1.6x magnification/enlargement hit when you are at MFD.

5. System integration. This is another biggie. Many argue the size and weight of 5D is not that much different than 40D. However they forget they have to add lenses of equal performance to the respective cameras. If you compare 5D+24-70 and 40D+17-55 then the difference shows. The small and sharp ef-s lenses of late are not by accident. The smaller image circle and mirror box is part of the reasons made those lenses possible.

Note many of these I mentioned are caused by the fundamental design limitation of full frame camera. It probably will not be improved much; some will not be improved at all, even with the next generation updates.

Don't get me wrong I’m not trying to advocate one format against the other. I myself want to find the best upgrade path, xD is always on my radar screen. I want to find the best “compromises” too. However I don’t want to blindly believe it when someone say: “it’s full frame it must be better” or “it has a quality I can not describe”.
 
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