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40D in gale force winds takes picture of beached ship

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Frans de Wit

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All,

Last Saturday a ship was beached nearby, today after work hours I went there and took some pictures. As you can see they are not totally sharp, this is due to the force 7bft wind on the beach. It is a 62km trip to the site (from my home) and I was a bit disappointed to see that the pictures where not totally sharp. The 40D was mounted on my Manfrotto 055XV tripod, and I positioned myself in such a way that I sheltered the camera from the wind, the question is: what could I have done to improve this? For one I could have weighted down the tripod (I did not), and what more? Any ideas?

Regards,
Frans.



--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fransdewit
 
What shutter speed/aperture did you use? What lens length? I do see some softness, but it looks like a possible DOF issue as well - not sure though. Were you shooting wide open?

I bet weighting the tripod and utilizing MLU would help. I'm sure sheltering from the wind made a big difference, so that's all I can try and suggest.

I have a new tripod on the way and it has a hook on the center column. I plan to carry some kind of bag that I can fill with sand/small rocks/etc to further stabilize things when needed. I think your picture came out quite well, all things considered.
--
Don't assume. It makes an a** out of you and me. ;-)
http://flickr.com/photos/bellabull8/
 
It is almost certainly camera shake that is the culprit. Shooting under those condition is problematic no matter what you do to shelter it from those winds.. Was your tripod actually on the sand? That also will impact the sharpness if the tripod is not firmly anchored, something that is all but impossible in loose, shifting soil.
--
Magic_Puzzle
 
I would also have rested my forearm or hand on the top of the camera or lens, at that shutter speed. It's helped in the past - when I remembered to also turn of IS. The thought being that as secure as the tripod/head might be, a buffeting wind could still cause minor movement against the body - more so the longer the lens in use.

I think I've seen examples of this by sports shooters with those big lenses, such as in football stadiums. [shrug]

--
...Bob, NYC

Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/btullis

' Now, if you are asking instead why camera enthusiasts are more
emphatic than other enthusiasts, I have no answer. I've not seen
that movie yet. : ) ' - Joe Mama
 
At that shutter speed you would also benefit from using mirror lockup and timed shutter release. Photo Techniques did an article on this that demonstrated a significant improvement with mirror lockup regardless of using a sturdy tripod and ballhead.

-Gene L.
http://ttl-biz.com
 
I'm sure that ship was moving a little bit in that wind too? 1/6 won't slow down a subject. I don't think it hurt to have the IS on - the 17-85 should detect it is on a tripod, and if the tripod was moving that much that the IS remained engaged - then it may have helped you. You didn't say what ISO you were at - but making a faster shutter speed through increased IS0 would have helped. The 5.6 was probably fine for the subject distance.

What a strange ship! Interesting image.

Cindy
Frans de Wit said:
The exif shows
1/6"
F5.6
73mm (EFS 17~85)

The tripod was on the wet(isch) sand, and I even pressed it a bit
into the sand. And now I think about it, the IS was switched on
(maybe not a good idea).
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fransdewit
Click to expand...
--
Frans de Wit said:
Frans de Wit said:
Frans de Wit said:
My Galleries Here: http://www.pbase.com/cindyd
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
But the tripod is not holding the camera completely still, and thus one could expect the IS to be of some help. Most writing on IS says that you need to switch it of when the camera is put on a tripod, in actual fact what they say is (I think), when you place the camera in a completely still/stable environment, then you need to switch it (the IS) off. In this case the camera was not totally stable, and so, the IS should have been of (some) help? Isn’t it?
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fransdewit
 
That should go w/o saying, but maybe it had to be said. (?)
--
...Bob, NYC

Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/btullis

' Now, if you are asking instead why camera enthusiasts are more
emphatic than other enthusiasts, I have no answer. I've not seen
that movie yet. : ) ' - Joe Mama
 
Frans, did photos of the ship being moved run in the local media?

Reason I ask is twofold, that really is a rather unusual looking ship with the array of cranes on the deck plus it is a great image in terms of colour and composition.

Were it me I might have been submitting it to the local paper or wire service..... if it wasn't covered and even if it was you have a rather unique shot due to the time of day and lighting that I make for a very stricking image.

As far as it goes now, with news you have to submit stuff the moment you get it otherwise it becomes old news and likely not of interest.....

Realize you just went because it was an interesting event but sometimes these pix make for interesting spot news photos.....

Kevin
 
Frans de Wit said:
But it was shot using life view. Would the mirror not be locked up
any way (using life view)? (Sorry did not say that before).
Click to expand...
Yes, generally I use live view instead of mirror lock-up because live view is so easy to activate.

If the IS was on you do need to activate it more than 1/4-1/2 sec. before the exposure. Otherwise, the IS lens groups might be moving into position right as the exposure is made.

The best chance for sharpness on that shot would be to only extend the largest sections of the tripod legs, push them into the sand a ways, hang something heavy that just touches the ground (so it doesn't swing around), use mirror lock-up and remote release. On the newer generation IS I would leave it on, especially in the wind. The remote release allows you to half-press for a second or two without adding motion before making the exposure. If you didn't have something heavy to hang or a remote release you would get almost as good of results by leaving the IS on and firmly grasping and weighting the camera as you trigger the shutter with the two second time delay set and slowly exhaling.

There is a slight amount of motion blur in your photo but I think most of it is in the upper cables that were probably swinging in the wind. Nice image!

--
Mike Mullen
 
Under the conditions, 1/6 shutter speed may have been too slow.

1/60 would with a larger Av of f4 may have done better for you, but I wasn't there.

Good luck!

--
Whether you think you can or you can't, you're right!
 
At 1/6th second, any shake will cause blur. And frankly, I've never seen a tripod yet that will hold your camera steady in a 60Kt wind. We get a LOT of wind here so that type of blasting is very familiar.

The manual for the 17-85 IS recommends that we turn the IS off when shooting with a tripod to save battery power. But they say it's fine to use it with a monopod. They don't say anything directly about whether or not the IS will behave badly when you shoot from a tripod with it, but presumably, if the lens had the system that disables IS when on a tripod, they wouldn't need to tell us to turn it off.

Still, it's possible that the IS doesn't "go nuts" the way older IS did when you shot from a tripod, but they just feel that it's a waste of battery power. If that's all it is, then maybe having the IS ON when on a tripod in windy conditions would be a good thing. Maybe a tripod on a windy day is the same as using a monopd ;-)

I wish Canon would be more clear about these details in their manuals, but it's often like pulling teeth to try to get this sort of information.

Does anyone reading this know for sure if using the IS of the 17-85 for cases where you're on an "unsteady" tripod might be better or worse than leaving it turned off? Battery power is almost never an issue. But we would like to know what would give the best images. Reading the manual for the lens just now leaves me wondering about this.

I guess we need some windy-day tripod IS tests to be included in all lens testing :)

--
Jim H.
 
BellaBull8 said:
I have a new tripod on the way and it has a hook on the center
column. I plan to carry some kind of bag that I can fill with
sand/small rocks/etc to further stabilize things when needed. I think
your picture came out quite well, all things considered.
Click to expand...
The hook is convenient but in windy conditions the "bag" you use to weight down the tripod will start swinging and generally make things worse. If you carry a small bungee cord you can use it to put tension on the bag by hooking it on the bottom of the bag and one leg on the tripod.

My current tripod head has a large opening on the front side where I slip the shoulder strap of my camera bag. The bag will usually rest perfectly on two of the legs.
 
JimH said:
I guess we need some windy-day tripod IS tests to be included in all
lens testing :)
Click to expand...
I shot about 60 exposures using the 70-200 f4 IS from one location in gusts up to 50 knts some with IS on, some off. The exposures varied from 2 seconds to 1/50th of a second. On the exposures over 1 second the shots with IS off were sharper but on the exposures between 1/4 and 1/40 sec. the shots with the IS on were sharper. In fact, most of the ones with shorter exposures and IS on were really sharp and the ones without IS were not. Of course I was stupid enough to set up on the ground under a tree figuring the trunk would shield the camera from some of the gusts but after a while I noticed the roots of the tree were causing the ground to move slightly.

It was stupid cold out so I packed up and left rather than move.

--
Mike Mullen
 
Frans de Wit said:
All,
The 40D was mounted
on my Manfrotto 055XV tripod, and I positioned myself in such a way
that I sheltered the camera from the wind, the question is: what
could I have done to improve this? For one I could have weighted down
the tripod (I did not), and what more? Any ideas?

Regards,
Frans.
Click to expand...
Here's the scenario: I'm taking shots in very high winds, I've driven no short distance to get the pictures. Vibration is obviously my main concern. The ship might be moving but it looks like it's run aground, my guess is it ain't moving. Even if it is moving it's probably not very much.

The question about IS on or off when using a tripod is answered by Canon but not directly. Any lens that can recognize that it's on a tripod can have IS left on. There aren't many that fall in this category, the 17-85 certainly doesn't. So for me, the IS is never on when I'm using a tripod.

So, with the IS question out of my way I need to focus on vibrations. In that type of wind you absolutely need something to weigh down the tripod. The closer you can attach the weight to the camera body the greater the effect. You'll also need to use something to keep the weight from swinging around in the wind.

I would also use LiveView at 10X to see if my setup is going to keep the camera stable.

Shutter speed is where it all comes together, I would shoot with every ISO available and then go back and do it all over again. I'm not bashful when it comes to cranking up the ISO, noise is one thing Canon seems to have under control. I would rather get home and have a nice shot that might be a little noisy in the shadows but sharp. Noise reduction PP is suppose to be very easy to do.

One thing I've noticed when going on photo workshops is most people seem to be awfully stingy with the number of pictures they take. They take a couple shots and move on. Not me, I really let her rip because getting to the photo opportunity is usually the hardest (at least time consuming anyway) part of the shoot. The law of averages also kicks in, the more shots taken: the more chances of getting a good one.

And just for fun, anybody seen this on the Canon site yet? MTF looks to be outstanding!

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=154&modelid=16358#ModelDetailAct
 
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