A little credit to the Olympus e-330 please?

Raist3d · Jan 30, 2008

Hey just saw the news. Sony introduces the all revolutionary- unlike other live views, "quick live view." Kudos Sony. The first time right?

Oh wait. What about the Olympus e-330 nearly two years ago? How about a little credit to that dpreview? Back then it was a "problem looking for a solution" and now it has become a good solution? How come?

Not that I think it's bad. I am glad Sony is doing this and I am glad they seemed to have improved on it. Competition is good and I am happy to see Sony is willing to go with this design. Just a bit of credit, that's all. Just because it's the right thing to do.

On my end since I own 4/3rd glass I would love if Olympus continued the e-330 line, but if I had nothing I would be taking a very close look to these Sony's. For street life, articulated quick live view is the cat's meow.

--
Raist3d (Photog. Student & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'

exp1orer · Jan 30, 2008

..when i was reading about the sony news...it looks like a better(?) solution looking for a problem

Raist3d said:
Hey just saw the news. Sony introduces the all revolutionary- unlike
other live views, "quick live view." Kudos Sony. The first time right?

Oh wait. What about the Olympus e-330 nearly two years ago? How about
a little credit to that dpreview? Back then it was a "problem looking
for a solution" and now it has become a good solution? How come?

Not that I think it's bad. I am glad Sony is doing this and I am glad
they seemed to have improved on it. Competition is good and I am
happy to see Sony is willing to go with this design. Just a bit of
credit, that's all. Just because it's the right thing to do.

On my end since I own 4/3rd glass I would love if Olympus continued
the e-330 line, but if I had nothing I would be taking a very close
look to these Sony's. For street life, articulated quick live view
is the cat's meow.

--
Raist3d (Photog. Student & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which
there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'

--

http://www.exp1orer.com

Chas J · Jan 30, 2008

I will second that .

--
Canada.
==============
Do Not Listen to What I Say ... Listen to What I Mean !.

tweedle · Jan 30, 2008

Raist3d said:
Hey just saw the news. Sony introduces the all revolutionary- unlike
other live views, "quick live view." Kudos Sony. The first time right?

The implementations are quite different. Go back and read Dpreview's review of the E-330, everything is clearly explained - a lot of 'issues' with the E-330 solution as well.

Some of these - if not alll - seem to have been avoided in what appears to be a rather elegant design from Sony.

The Sony solution here seems a little less amibitious compared to the earlier Oly-attemtps, but for what it is it could be much better implemented.

AlanF · Jan 30, 2008

Member said:
Sony's idea is particularly interesting: it adds a small imaging sensor into the viewfinder chamber with a secondary mirror redirecting light onto it in live view mode. This means light is still able to reach the focus and metering sensors.

Not even a nod to the E330. Shoddy reviewing. s/odd/itt/

Admittedly it is an improvement over the E330 -- with a 1-switch selector to activate the sensor and eyepiece shutter. And using a moving mirror rather than a splitter lets more light to both the eye (in normal mode) or sensor (live view A ).

tweedle · Jan 30, 2008

AlanF said:
AlanF said:

Sony's idea is particularly interesting: it adds a small imaging sensor into the viewfinder chamber with a secondary mirror redirecting light onto it in live view mode. This means light is still able to reach the focus and metering sensors.

Click to expand...

Not even a nod to the E330. Shoddy reviewing. s/odd/itt/

Admittedly it is an improvement over the E330 -- with a 1-switch
selector to activate the sensor and eyepiece shutter. And using a
moving mirror rather than a splitter lets more light to both the eye
(in normal mode) or sensor (live view A ).

An improvement? Rather a design different by nature.

exp1orer · Jan 30, 2008

...after learning what's not so good on Oly 330 2 years ago. Sony must be stupid if they just copy exactly the technology that was introduced 2 years ago.

tweedle said:
Raist3d said:

Hey just saw the news. Sony introduces the all revolutionary- unlike
other live views, "quick live view." Kudos Sony. The first time right?

Click to expand...

The implementations are quite different. Go back and read Dpreview's
review of the E-330, everything is clearly explained - a lot of
'issues' with the E-330 solution as well.

Some of these - if not alll - seem to have been avoided in what
appears to be a rather elegant design from Sony.

The Sony solution here seems a little less amibitious compared to the
earlier Oly-attemtps, but for what it is it could be much better
implemented.

--

http://www.exp1orer.com

Adanac18 · Jan 30, 2008

The Sony A3xx series is elegant.

tweedle said:
Raist3d said:

Hey just saw the news. Sony introduces the all revolutionary- unlike
other live views, "quick live view." Kudos Sony. The first time right?

Click to expand...

The implementations are quite different. Go back and read Dpreview's
review of the E-330, everything is clearly explained - a lot of
'issues' with the E-330 solution as well.

Some of these - if not alll - seem to have been avoided in what
appears to be a rather elegant design from Sony.

The Sony solution here seems a little less amibitious compared to the
earlier Oly-attemtps, but for what it is it could be much better
implemented.

BJL · Jan 30, 2008

Raist3d said:
What about the Olympus e-330 nearly two years ago?

One difference from the E-330: the new A3x0 models have only "mode A", and so no zoom preview on the LCD. Also, the approach used seems inherently limited to using a penta-mirror VF of rather low magnification, so it is clear why a camera like the E-3 does not use this approach.

So, Sony's approach is probably good for its stated goal of making entry-level DSLR usage more like digicam usage, but far less usable to people like me who want LiveView for accurate manual focus, accurate live histogram, accurate DOF preview, and want a good, uncompromised optical VF too.

LiveView off the "taking" sensor offers the purest WYSIWYG preview.

AlanF · Jan 30, 2008

tweedle said:
Olympus's idea is particularly interesting: it adds a small imaging sensor into the viewfinder chamber with a beamsplitter directing light onto it in live view mode. This means light is still able to reach the focus and metering sensors.

tweedle said:
Sony's idea is particularly interesting: it adds a small imaging sensor into the viewfinder chamber with a secondary mirror redirecting light onto it in live view mode. This means light is still able to reach the focus and metering sensors.

Compare and contrast.

AlanF · Jan 30, 2008

BJL said:
LiveView off the "taking" sensor offers the purest WYSIWYG preview.

That is true. But the downside is that your main sensor heats up and gets noisier.

All the manuals for the main-sensor LV cameras warn that you shouldn't use it for extended periods.

BJL · Jan 30, 2008

AlanF said:
That is true. But the downside is that your main sensor heats up and gets noisier.

All the manuals for the main-sensor LV cameras warn that you shouldn't use it for extended periods.

Given that I want LiveView only for special situations like precise manual focus and low-level or over-the-head shots, that is not a worry for me: I will use the OVF the majority of the time, and turn off LiveView between shots anyway.

Does anyone actually use main-sensor SLR LiveView the majority of the time?

(To paraphrase my previous comment: Sony's approach gives a choice between two low magnification, low detail VF images!)

tex · Jan 30, 2008

don't think the e300 or e330 cameras were ugly. i've always thought pentaprism slr's were ugly.

dgrogers · Jan 30, 2008

The A100 is one of the most un-elegant cameras I've ever heald (ergonomics, cheap plastic, etc.). Does the jump to the A3xx series make a world of difference (I'm talking about a world the size of Jupiter)?

Adanac18 said:
The Sony A3xx series is elegant.

--
dgrogers

http://www.pbase.com/drog

AlanF · Jan 30, 2008

BJL said:
Does anyone actually use main-sensor SLR LiveView the majority of the
time?

When I shoot formal stage/podium events I put one camera on a tripod, mounted high, with a remote shutter release. Then I shoot candids from the side with a 2nd camera.

Live view A is ideal for the tripod mount. It's on all the time, so I can instantly pan/zoom/refocus. I used my KM A2 in that way.

tex · Jan 30, 2008

Member said:
Oh wait. What about the Olympus e-330 nearly two years ago? How about
a little credit to that dpreview? Back then it was a "problem looking
for a solution" and now it has become a good solution? How come?

don't hold your breath for a dpreview mea culpa or 'on 2nd thought, looks like oly was right'. i've never been one of those bias howlers---until today. got my proof now.

Two Truths · Jan 30, 2008

Raist3d said:
Hey just saw the news. Sony introduces the all revolutionary- unlike
other live views, "quick live view." Kudos Sony. The first time right?

Oh wait. What about the Olympus e-330 nearly two years ago? How about
a little credit to that dpreview? Back then it was a "problem looking
for a solution" and now it has become a good solution? How come?

Not quite the same solution but it is close, yes.

Olympus E-330: light is split between liveview sensor and viewfinder
Sony Alpha 300 / 350: light is directed to either liveview sensor or viewfinder

Member said:
Not that I think it's bad. I am glad Sony is doing this and I am glad
they seemed to have improved on it. Competition is good and I am
happy to see Sony is willing to go with this design. Just a bit of
credit, that's all. Just because it's the right thing to do.

On my end since I own 4/3rd glass I would love if Olympus continued
the e-330 line, but if I had nothing I would be taking a very close
look to these Sony's. For street life, articulated quick live view
is the cat's meow.

I would also like to see credit given to the Sony Alpha 700 for QuickNavi....

In the Hands On Preview for the Sony Alpha 350; Dpreview claims that Olympus and Nikon have both offered cameras where you adjusted settings directly on the main LCD display.

In reality; the two cameras that have that feature are the Sony Alpha 700 and the Olympus E-3.

(I would also like Sony/Minolta to be given credit for having wireless flash, whenever their cameras are compared to Nikon cameras. Far too many times have I seen dpreview claim that Sony/Minolta cameras lack this feature.)

--
Stuart / the Two Truths
http://www.flickr.com/photos/two_truths/
http://two-truths.deviantart.com/gallery/

Raist3d · Jan 30, 2008

exp1orer said:
..when i was reading about the sony news...it looks like a better(?)
solution looking for a problem

Hahahaha!

Raist

Raist3d · Jan 30, 2008

right?

--
Raist3d (Photog. Student & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'

Raist3d · Jan 30, 2008

where "quite different." Both split the light, and both are using a 2nd sensor. Both also focus quick in live view mode.

The Olympus had a more explicit mode this or that, but that's not the real crux of the technology.

--
Raist3d (Photog. Student & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'

A little credit to the Olympus e-330 please?

Raist3d

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