D90 Coming Out in FF?

Anyone think that Nikon might be planning to bring the D90 out as a FF model in preparation for a new model from Sony? Or, more likely there would be an entirely new line, similar to the 5D.

As you've probably read, Sony joins Nikon and Canon in larger sensor development, and I would expect them to waste little time in getting a model to market. That could place Sony and Canon in the $2000 range and Nikon still in the stratosphere with the D3.

If you missed the news release, here's the first paragraph from the DPR website:

Pre-PMA 2008: In a surprise move Sony today announced its entry into the rapidly-expanding 24x36mm imaging sensor market with its own 24.81 megapixel CMOS offering. Joining Canon and Nikon in the full-frame market, this new chip promises to output all pixels at 6.3 fps with lower noise than other designs of similar pixel-pitch thanks to its “Column-Parallel A/D Conversion Technique” whereby each column of photosites is given its own Analogue to Digital Converter. The ADCs themselves are 12-bit, flying in the face of current trends which are toward 14-bit devices but the combination of speed, dynamic range and sheer resolving power displayed by this sensor make it one to watch for when Sony puts into full production hopefully before the year is out.

If D300 is not FF why do you think D90 will be? No, D90 will not be FF; however, there maybe a new line up with FF to compete against the 5D. Nikon was speculating on more FF body after the release of D3- let's just wait and see.
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I don't think D90 will be FF either. Probably a new model slot and the D90 remains DX.

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http://pics.myfotoguy.com

I'm not sure if that article really mean Nikon Sony and Canon join force to develop this new sensor. Nikon for sure using Sony's, but I'm not sure about Canon.

I think the news said Sony will join Nikon and Canon in fullframe range.

IMHO, the new camera to replace D80 will be DX format at 12mp, same sensor as from D300. They might use this new Sony's sensor in high MP variation of D3.

That's really my thinking, too. So with a perfectly fine D80, I'm more inclined to wait for a sub-$2000 Nikon FF model. Everytime I pick up my Nikon FA and look through its magnificent viewfinder, I think about what digital photography should be--a no limitation view on the world.

I think if Nikon isn't careful, Canon and Sony, both, will have new models out with FF and a somewhat reasonable price tag that will give both an early lead in the race to capture the salivating FF market. There are a lot of advanced amateurs and semi-pros keeping their eye on how this shakes out, and when the right price point is introduced, they will go for it.

The D3 is way above the financial means of most non-professionals except for those folks who have the money and simply want the best regardless of whether they really need a $6000 camera or not.

but i think the first 'affordable' FF wont be entry level (d40,d50) or advanced amatur (d70,d80)..more to semi pro body (d100,d200,d300)

Vandyu said:

Anyone think that Nikon might be planning to bring the D90 out as a
FF model in preparation for a new model from Sony? Or, more likely
there would be an entirely new line, similar to the 5D.

Click to expand...

They may come out with another FF camera, but it won't be called a D90 - it doesn't follow their naming scheme.

Dxx = Entry Level
Dxxx = Mid Level
Dx = Pro Level

rockyonetwo said:

but i think the first 'affordable' FF wont be entry level (d40,d50)
or advanced amatur (d70,d80)..more to semi pro body (d100,d200,d300)

Click to expand...

I'm convinced that there is a big market for a FF, 20mp+ camera with functionality similar to the D-80. Some of us, even we who use our photo gear to make money, don't need a waterproof, ultra tough, high-end body. Most importantly, we don't want to Pay for a bunch of unnecessary (to us) features.

But we do want the advantages of what this new Sony FF sensor promises to offer and lots of us currently own "pro" FF glass. Forget live view, magnesium frames, and all the other bells and whistles and hit a price point just over a thousand bucks for the body. I'm willing to wait a year.

Bob
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One reason I don't believe an entry level full frame camera is soon to be released by Nikon is that they are having a tough time filling orders on the D3 right now. Rumor has it that it's the sensor that is holding up faster production, but I certainly don't know. Moreover, I think Nikon will release a super mega-pixel version of the D3 prior to an inexpensive FF.

Another point is the price of super pro-level non DX glass. Really good new FF glass is almost as expensive as an entry level FF camera. I do know that I'll probably not purchase additional glass in DX though I'm going to stick with my D80 and D300 far into the future, as far as I know. I'd rather spend the money on more photo trips and workshops. I think that will make me a better photographer, rather than a new body.

Just my opinion. Thank you for considering.

Bob Walters said:

rockyonetwo said:

but i think the first 'affordable' FF wont be entry level (d40,d50)
or advanced amatur (d70,d80)..more to semi pro body (d100,d200,d300)

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Yes, and will cost about U$3000.

Bob Walters said:

I'm convinced that there is a big market for a FF, 20mp+ camera with
functionality similar to the D-80. Some of us, even we who use our
photo gear to make money, don't need a waterproof, ultra tough,
high-end body. Most importantly, we don't want to Pay for a bunch of
unnecessary (to us) features.

Click to expand...

Agreed, I'd like that too, but not until the market for higher-end FF settles, probably more than 3 years in the future. Making FF sensors still too expensive to put into cheaper bodies.

Bob Walters said:

But we do want the advantages of what this new Sony FF sensor
promises to offer and lots of us currently own "pro" FF glass.
Forget live view, magnesium frames, and all the other bells and
whistles and hit a price point just over a thousand bucks for the
body. I'm willing to wait a year.

Click to expand...

More, as I mentioned above, probably 3 years for an under U$2K FF in a like-D80 body. Early next year we may see a D300-like FF, for about U$3K, competition to the 5D MkII

Bob Walters said:

Bob
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Click to expand...

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Regards, RHLPedrosa

I think you've got a great idea for personal development that we seldom hear about. It's either a new body or new lenses or both. Rarely do people say they will attend photo seminars and go on pro-led photo safaris or cruises to learn how to use all of the equipment to their best ability.
Thanks for posting.

I think that in 2 years almost ALL DSLR cameras will be Full Frame , eveyone will sell his DX 1.5 crop lenses & invest in new expensive lenses...

that's why they now introduce those newer 35mm sensors.
For the moment , D90 & D40x will of course stay at 1.5 crop .
Next generation also (D90x ? D400 ?) .

After that , they will still be a few cameras with 1.5 crop factor , with maximum 16 MP , but there will surely not be 4 models for each Brand, 2 max & prices will dump therfore pushing some consumers to buy the last stocks of DX lenses. (bird fotografers & the one who dont want to invest so much in a camera).

35mm cameras will be back & of course , will have a better Image quality & performances. (30'000 Iso, super live view, 24 frame/ second. real time video, all HD etc...)

but the fact IS that the consumer looks at the MP & wants more & more MP. the Compact point & shoot cameras are following this way, & that's why DSLR cameras have to follow the way of MP also.

You cant have 24 MP on a 1.5 crop factor unless shooting crappy images & most of P & S consumers dont mind if they buy a bad camera. Those P & S will certainly have new sensors to follow the MP race & avoid too noisy pics.

So lets's wait, but in 2 years , every one will have a 35MM full frame camera, it's a new market for Ca-NI-So-Lympus & they want the money.

it will be a 12 megapixel version of the D60.

I get that queezy feeling in the pit of my stomach that you are correct. So, I'm hugging my D80 and waiting for a reasonably- priced FF camera from Nikon. I just hope they are not the last ones to enter the field, but looking at Nikon historically, they seem to eye the other guy's goods and then offer the Nikon version. So, speed of getting a model to market (excepting the D40x, of course) is not in the Nikon game plan.

This is why I likely will not buy more DX lenses. The 16-85VR is tempting, though. I've got the 18-135 and 18-200VR. My 70-300VR should be all right. I'm not really up on all of the differences in the lenses, yet. I'd really like to have a medium-size body that was FF and would be completely compatible with my Nikon manual lenses. Guess I'm dreaming, but carrying around a brick of a body is just not appealing. We'll see. We probably do have a couple of years to stew over this, however.

I still expect to see Sony moving into FF quite quickly though.

I pretty much agree with what you are saying, I think Nikon has to come out with a high-MP FF camera to counter Canon’s EOS-1Ds Mk III in order to uphold their standing in the professional photography circles. The rumors have been circulating that the new camera would have somewhere in the neighborhood of 22 to 25 MP and probably cost 8K (USD), and the new Sony 24.8MP sensor fits right in. Nikon might want some changes to the Sony sensor that would make it unique to Nikon, or Nikon may have their own high-MP variant of the sensor used in the D3.

I also think the orders for the D3 may have been higher than what Nikon originally anticipated. The D3 is manufactured in their Sendai plant in Japan and Rob Galbraith report last August that the plant was producing 400 units a day, with a growth potential to 600 units a day. I have since read that the plant had upped the production to the 600 maximum units. The only other camera manufactured at the Sendai plant is the D2Xs, but the plant is rather small and employs only about 1100 workers and another new FF could be undertaken if the production of the D2Xs was discontinued, but two new models is probably not feasible at this time.

The D3 has the ability to detect DX lenses and automatically switch to the DX Crop Mode. In fact the D3 supports 3 formats, the DF, 4:5, and DX.
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Brooks
http://bmiddleton.smugmug.com/

Yeah, if the D90 comes out full frame, then I wonder how many P.O.'ed D300 owners there will be?

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Brandon

rhlpetrus said:

.....snip.......

Agreed, I'd like that too, but not until the market for higher-end FF
settles, probably more than 3 years in the future. Making FF sensors
still too expensive to put into cheaper bodies.

Click to expand...

Manufactures don't talk about sensor costs, but it's believed that FF sensors are now in the $500 range and yields which were below 10% a short while ago are now appropriating 50%. I don't think anyone expects this trend to slow down and most likely it will accelerate. In addition, we're approaching two limits. First, sensor size. For the huge majority of the dSLR market, 35mm is a maximum size limit. In other words, plenty of folks have been wanting to get away from our sub 35mm sensors, but very few of us have much use for a 38mm sensor, for example.

And, we're also rapidly approaching a practical resolution limit too. A FF sensor somewhere around 20 mp is going to leave very little room for improvement for many of us. Of course, there is still plenty of room to improve dynamic range and reduce noise. My point is that a FF sensor of around 20 mp certainly could satisfy lots of camera buyers and I see the day in the not too distant future where a wide range of consumer and pro cameras will use the same sensor in much the same way we all had access to very good film, back in the day, no matter how fancy our respective cameras might have been.

Remember, the D-70 was announced just about 4 years ago and we've come a long way since then. Perhaps a year is too early to expect a mid range FF camera, but I'd bet 3 years is way too long. Time will tell of course.

Bob
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I've thought for some time that Nikon will do a dual launch here, something like the D3/D300, with a new advanced amateur camera, in both DX (D90) and FX (D10) form. This matches what Canon did with the 20D/5D, and would help them compete in both sectors. Tellingly, the new Sony FF sensor uses the same electronic interface as the D300 sensor, so one set of electronics would work with both, it would be a simple development for them.

The body spec would need to compare well with the 40D, so I would expect it to be a real advance on the D80.

The more I think about it, the D10 would be all the camera most studio and landscape shooters would need - they may never make a D3x, which as a camera is hugely overspecified for those uses.
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Bob