D60--The SLR For Dummies

larrytusaz

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Well, it's obvious that Nikon is caving in to pressure to make d-SLRs for idiots like my relative who couldn't understand why I sold my p-s Sony H1 last year--a camera which was horrendous with lag and blow-outs when shooting flash shots of our new daughter--for our Nikon D40. He said "why sell a camera that can make movies so you can buy one that can't?" He said this as he was standing underneath crisp 13 1/3 x 20" blowups of fireworks and landscapes taken by the D40.

Yes it will make Nikon money but I still say--why accomodate these embicles? What they need is a Coolpix. If they can't work an SLR they shouldn't buy one.

And again--where are the AF-S primes? No such class discrimination ("if you want AF w/primes get the D80") exists with the other brands. This is just disgusting.
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LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
http://larrytxeast.smugmug.com/ (inactive)
 
Actually, it wasnt made dumb enough for me. Again NO AE BRACKETING. Forget it! I will be spending my time reviewing the new Canon 450 and New Sony 200. And dare I say it, the new Fuji S100 bridge digicam.

Peter F.
 
--Sadly, we all must admit that the vast majority of users never EVER take their cameras off the full auto setting. They have no knowledge of photography (which is okay) and they will never consider reading the owners manual. Even the D40/60 have far more features than they will even know exist.

I think Nikon have made a good decision to market to this segment specifically and will definitely make money for doing that if the camera is priced properly as an entry level camera.

Yes...perhaps most of the people who would buy this camera would be better off with an advanced point and shoot. But for those wanting to move up to an SLR at a cost effective price, the D60 will definitely be a good choice.

Nikon have plenty of choices for advanced users to choose from. This camera will end up for sale at Wal Mart for $499 and will be perfect for it's intended demographic.
-Kurt Horsley
 
Yes it will make Nikon money but I still say--why accomodate these
embicles? What they need is a Coolpix. If they can't work an SLR they
shouldn't buy one.
Because there money is green. (or whatever your local currency is).
Rather than disdain them, why not say to yourself...

"Thanks, cousin, your purchase helps fund Nikon's R&D efforts for my next lens/body"

I don't know much about the P&S market, but I imagine it is crowded, with thin profit margins. There's probably more profit in the dSLR market, and the opportunity to sell extra lenses.
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Warm regards,
DOF
 
Kurt, I should have mentioned, too, in my post right above yours than in additoin to the AEB I want live-mode. This is excellent for desktop macros, as well as overhead shots. And that new 16-85 lens would have been great (pending a good review) for my travel photos.

Peter F.
 
Actually I would guess there is not much margin in the entry level DSLR's either. Lenses are another thing though.

Regards,

Jon
I don't know much about the P&S market, but I imagine it is crowded,
with thin profit margins. There's probably more profit in the dSLR
market, and the opportunity to sell extra lenses.
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Warm regards,
DOF
 
I own a D40 and I am not a dummy. I bought it for financial reasons nothing else.

it is a good DSLR starting camera though.
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DSLR - Nikon D40 with 18-70 and 70-300VR lenses
P&S - Fuji V10
 
I'm still waiting for the right moment and product - but will most probably get a (another-have an FE2) Nikon.

Also disappointed by lack of AEB - my panasonic FZ5 even this, and I use it often. Though I suppose shooting raw covers all the options, except endless PP is not really my thing. Having said that with some decent batch software...

I really would like a compact dSLR though, so the D60 remains attractive. For me, the day I leave my camera behind because it's too big, is the day to get something else more suitable.
Actually, it wasnt made dumb enough for me. Again NO AE BRACKETING.
Forget it! I will be spending my time reviewing the new Canon 450
and New Sony 200. And dare I say it, the new Fuji S100 bridge digicam.

Peter F.
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UK

http://msasa.smugmug.com

 
Did you ever look what Nikon used to offer in film cameras? The N55, N60/65, etc? They always had lower end SLRs geared towards novices. And what's wrong with that? Different markets, different cameras. When I shot film, I had a N80, and the rough equivalent in digital would be the D80. So pick the camera range that suits you.

Saying that there shouldn't be SLRs for newbies just sounds a tad elitist.
 
Before I get into this too much more, I will do a "pre-emptive strike" as it were and point out that, yes, I own a D40 (and a D50). I used to bash the D40 to bits when it came out, yet ended up getting it because although I already had the D50 I wanted something as a "portable alternative" for taking shots of our newborn, or for having something always with us when those artistic moments appear before you. I knew of the AF-S only limitation but figured at least it was better than the point & shoot I was always carrying with us at the time when the D50 was left home.

But, a very key point, I also knew I was sort of stepping out on a limb with the AF-S thing. I chose to believe that Nikon would surely update their lineup to AF-S, so it would ultimately not really matter so much

Nope, still hasn't happened. If you want a 50mm f/1.8, there is no AF-S. Same for an 85mm f/1.8 or f/1.4. Heck, even with the lowly Canon Digital Rebel--the old one, or the "Altoids wanna-be" XT (the Canonites used to hate it when I called it that), you can use the Canon 50mm 1/.8 that costs all of 50 bucks--and get full-functionality with it. Same with Pentax, if I'm not mistaken.

That, to me, totally kills the excuse that "certain compromises must be made for a price-point" or the argument of "the target market won't care." Heck, the target market surely isn't going to buy an SB-600 or even SB-400, but thank goodness we still have hotshoes--and manual-modes, and aperture-shutter priority as well.

Heck, and yes I've said it 1 million times already it seems, but my first 35mm SLR was the Nikon EM, which was an entry-level Nikon if ever there was one. Yes it ditched manual-mode and didn't have depth-of-field preview or a PC-sync socket, multiple exposure, etc. Compromises were made for the price point, totally understandable. But the big selling point I used to hear was how it allowed you access to all of Nikon's lenses. And heck, except for the 6mm f/2.8 fisheye and maybe 2 other lenses currently made at the time, that was true. At least 95% of the CURRENT LENSES being made that would fit the top-of-the-line F3 would also fit the lowly EM.

You understood it wasn't going to work with pre-AI lenses like the F3 would, that was an understandable compromise. But with lenses that were in the CURRENT lineup at the time, at least 95% of them worked.

"Current" is the word to me here--and the big thing where I feel sort of stung by Nikon (thank goodness I still have my D50) is that a good half of their lens lineup still isn't AF-S. Limited compatibility with lenses not made any longer is one thing, functional limitations with lenses in the current lineup is another thing altogether. No one else in the business is doing this, and the target market may not care--and that is where I say if that is their attitude so be it, but an SLR isn't for them.

But instead of keeping the AF motor--don't tell me it can't be done to keep size down, Pentax does it--Nikon is giving them a useless and silly "animation mode" for people like my relative I mentioned who couldn't see the value of an SLR due to lack of movie mode. Good grief.

(On a lighter & cooler note--the original thread was posted from my Palm Treo 650. How cool that I can engage in this topic even away from home, most totally cool. And yet another case of focusing on what matters vs silly gimmicks. To wit--I almost got the iPhone until I found out it can't copy-paste. Of course the average buyer doesn't care, they want silly skins and ringtones, and don't care because lack of copy-paste doesn't hinder this. I'd rather have copy-paste. Functionality is what matters, not gimmicks. Gimmicks are okay if they aren't used as a substitute for functionality, when they are that is appalling.)

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LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
http://larrytxeast.smugmug.com/ (inactive)
 
Did you ever look what Nikon used to offer in film cameras? The N55,
N60/65, etc? They always had lower end SLRs geared towards novices.
And what's wrong with that? Different markets, different cameras.
When I shot film, I had a N80, and the rough equivalent in digital
would be the D80. So pick the camera range that suits you.
Of course they did, but those bodies had equal (or close to it) compatibility with Nikon's entire CURRENT lens lineup. True the F100 and F5 had more compatibility with manual-focus AI lenses, but even the lowly N55 could use the 50mm prime or 80-200 f/2.8 AF-D lenses that the F5 could.
Saying that there shouldn't be SLRs for newbies just sounds a tad
elitist.
So what if it is? Nothing wrong with that. To me having an SLR is sort of like driving a car with a 5-speed, or becoming a chef--you have to learn a whole new way of doing things and can't expect the auto-mode or the defrost mode of your microwave to do everything for you. This isn't DiGornio in an oven or Hot Pockets in a microwave, there's mixing and measuring and kneeding of dough. If you just want something tasty to eat that's quick and easy, fine--but don't become a chef and complain about the work. Stick with your Hot Pockets and Swanson Hungry Mans and stay out of the chef's kitchen.

To wit: you're taking charge of things and need to learn what f-stops and ISO values are, or at least try and learn a little about it. If not, SLRs aren't for you and you need to stay with your Cybershot, Powershot, or Coolpix. There's no shame in that, but there's plenty wrong with buying an SLR and expecting it to do everything for you when that's not the kind of tool it is.

If that is elitist, so be it. I have no shame in saying so.

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LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
http://larrytxeast.smugmug.com/ (inactive)
 
Actually, it wasnt made dumb enough for me. Again NO AE BRACKETING.
it never ceases to amaze me how people put down scene modes on cameras and then have to have exposure bracketing or some other automatic feature

shoot in manual
  • shoot - flip thumbwheel - shoot - flip thumbwhell - shoot
you just bracketed

that little eye detector in the view finder feature for the D60 is going to be nice as it hopefullly turn off the display and reactivate the thumbwheel for changing exposure and making that bracketing sequence even easier

so it is shoot - chimp - look in viewfinder adjust - shoot adjust shoot - chimp etc.

and yes, i know that auto bracketing would be nice for hdr stuff

David
 
I dont think the D60 is a bad camera at all. It is going to be cheap which will allow more people to buy into nikon which is all it is supposed to do. AEB is simply solved by shooting in RAW. The D60 is not supposed to be an upgrade model for current D40/D50 owners who want more features for that you have to go to the D80/sometime D90. It might have been slow but they did release the AF-S 60mm, it might not be the 50mm or 85mm that everyone wants but I bet that they are taking extra time developing those lens so that they don't destroy beautiful lens just to put a auto focus motor in it.
 
Yes it will make Nikon money but I still say--why accomodate these
embicles? What they need is a Coolpix. If they can't work an SLR they
shouldn't buy one.
Well, Nikon is a business, it's only purpose is to make money.

So, if on one hand they can make money and on the other they can satisfy your snobism, what do you think they will do?

And no, they won't do this with a Coolpix.

First, Nikon has not produced any interresting Coolpix in ages. Why? Obviously because they're not interrested. They have the ressources to make interresting DSLR after all. So, they know what a good camera needs.

Why? Well, because Nikon only makes Coolpix to exist on that market. But it's not a good business. When they try to sell a Coolpix, they have to compete among dozen of other companies. Many with a far broader public acceptance, like Dell.

But if they sell a DSLR, the competition is only between 4-5 competitors. And they're more interrested in segmenting the market than with reducing their margins with a price war.

So, the "DSLR for dummies" is a real strategic move. By moving a part of the consummer base from compacts to DSLR, Nikon is moving them to a less competitive market where it is a leader and where its margins are confortable.
 
Yes, David, what you propose in lieu of a bracketing feature will work. But for me, that's just a work-around. I used the D40 for 2 weeks and 1500 images and missed the bracketing. Yes, taking a shot and reviewing the Histogram works nicely, but again, I would like the option of the no-brainer AEB... just as a choice when I am in the mood for just point-n-shoot. That doesn't mean I don't have knowledge or capability of using a camera without it! Just a personal preference when I am wrapped up in the scenery and don't want to ruin "the moment" by a brain-shift to get wrapped up in the camera. It has to do more with my personality and preferences than with my skill-set.

Peter F.
 

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