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Mike Iantosca

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Looking for working pro's opinions....

Which of you subscribe to the notion of using a diffusion panel in front of your strobes versus a soft box and why?

One of the reasons I ask is that the notion of using the light's pnumbra (sp) as the sweet-spot for lighting is something I've read about and seldom played with. When I moved from umbrellas to using soft boxes, the notion of using the pnumbra seemingly gets lost when using such large light sources. With diffusion panels, I would think I could get diffusion (not as much as I get with the soft boxes), but still control both the size of the light source and still manage the pnumbra. Is managing light that way still the more desirable way to light clasic formal portraits? Are the soft boxes diminishing the overall quality I could otherwise achieve? Or is this simply 'style'.

I am currently using 4 Photogenic powerlights -2 500WS and 2 250WS; the main is diffused with a meduim softbox, fill is using a 6' softbox, hair is using a 20 degree grid and I vary the 4th as as kicker or background. Lighting is pretty good, but I'm wondering if I should use the main head on with a standard reflector and a 6' diffusion screen in front of it to vary the light quality more precisely.

Thoughts?

Regards,
Mike
 
In revers order:
Mike Iantosca said:
One of the reasons I ask is that the notion of using the light's
pnumbra (sp) as the sweet-spot for lighting is something I've read
about and seldom played with. When I moved from umbrellas to using
soft boxes, the notion of using the pnumbra seemingly gets lost
when using such large light sources.
Click to expand...
Lighting with the penumbra is using the light produced around the edges of a reflector. Such light is more diffused / less focused than the direct light produced in the center. Not by much, you can barely see the difference, but it's there.

Using a lightbox or panel gives you diffuse, non-directional lighting to start with, as such there is no penumbra effect near the edges, only fall-off.

So to repeat: penumbra lighting is slightly diffused, but still directional.
Mike Iantosca said:
Which of you subscribe to the notion of using a diffusion panel in
front of your strobes versus a soft box and why?
Click to expand...
Some people like 'em, I find them to be a pain. My biggest issue is not only setting up the panel to provide the light, but also in setting up the addtional panels needed to control the spill.
 
Michael Long said:
Using a lightbox or panel gives you diffuse, non-directional
lighting to start with, as such there is no penumbra effect near
the edges, only fall-off.
Click to expand...
What I get for not proof-reading before I posted. Revised:

Using a lightbox or panel gives you diffuse lighting to start with, as such there is no penumbra effect near the edges, only fall-off.

(Such light is usually directional.)
 
Try a little experiment.

First, light your subject by bringing the softbox as close as possible to the subject without seeing the box in the viewfinder.

Next, illuminate the subject by shining the light directly at the subject. Observe the results.

Then, without moving the light out of position, turn the softbox so that the light is directed past the subject ( but not so far that the light misses the subject). The subject will be illuminated with the edge of the softbox closer to the subject. The direct light from the center and edge further from the subject will be illuminating the subject also and will soften the edges of any shadows produced by the softbox, producing a "wrap-around" type of lighting. Observe the results.

Choose whichever is more pleasing to you. Also take into account any diffusion to be used on camera.
 
I like using them a lot. Although I use umbrellas and softboxes as well. It really depends on the quality of light your looking for.

The one thing I like about using panels is that you can move the panel and the light seperatly from each other to control contrast. Want softer light? move the light further away from the panel. More contrast? Move it closer. Need to cut more power off the light if you can't turn it down any more? Put more material over the panel.

Ever try lighting a subject and getting your white background to stay white with one light? You can using panels. Hard to do with an umbrella or softbox.

I also like the fact that I can use them on location as well as use them as reflectors with different materials. Very portable and easy to set up.

Sometimes softboxes or umbrellas are more convenient and/or quicker. But I do like using panels when I can.

Mike
 
Michael Long said:
Using a lightbox or panel gives you diffuse, non-directional
lighting to start with,
Click to expand...
I would have to respectfully disagree- larger light sources are still directional, but due to their nature, throw more diffused shadows and lower highlights. But that's being picky, and I doubt Michael meant it that way.

The fundamental difference between similar sized panels and softboxes is the diffuse highlight.

A softbox is designed to distribute light even across the front panel, and a panel is less likely so. A panel can, by changing the proximity of the light to the panel, increase and decrease the size of the resulting source. Looking from the subject's side, the panel has a bright spot that gradually diffuses towards the edges of the panel.

You can move the light away from the panel to allow a more even distribution, but you also change it's nature. Eventually, it will become similar to a softbox, with the panel lit evenly from edge to edge.

I use panels for products as often as possible. I hate seeing the hard edges of a box in the specular highlights of a product. I find a the diffuse highlight of a panel far more pleasing, natural, and controllable. Just try to shoot metal inlays with a softbox, or even better, a quarter. Put a softbox on it, and it just glares back at you. Put a panel with a light on the same quarter, and the detail pops right out.

I use softboxes for people because I'm lazy. They are easy to setup, move around, manipulate, squeeze into small spaces. I shot a CEO today in the interior of a car, and I could never get a panel and light to sit on the driver's seat. I used a 16x20 extra small Chimera about 12-18" away from his face.

Here is an obscure quality I've never tested. I've been told by a very reliable source that a panel has less fall off than a box. That is, if you have two models side by side, with a softbox to the far right of them, there will be a obvious difference in exposure between the models. If you use a panel of the SAME SIZE, the exposure difference will be less. Now here's the kicker: If you keep the panel in the same position, and move it's lightsource away, the exposure difference will be even further reduced. And the further the better. If you can move the lightsource across the street, keep it controlled on the panel, and keep it powered way up, the difference between the two models will be even further reduced.

There are lighting wizards around here that may be able to either confirm or deny that claim, and I'd like to hear about it.

p

--
http://www.paulmbowers.com
 
Paul M Bowers said:
I would have to respectfully disagree- larger light sources are
still directional, but due to their nature, throw more diffused
shadows and lower highlights. But that's being picky, and I doubt
Michael meant it that way.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I corrected it in a followup message after I posted it. Sometimes I wish Phil had an edit function.
Paul M Bowers said:
Here is an obscure quality I've never tested. I've been told by a
very reliable source that a panel has less fall off than a box.
That is, if you have two models side by side, with a softbox to the
far right of them, there will be a obvious difference in exposure
between the models.
Click to expand...
Actually, you can see somewhat of the same effect with a translucent umbrella.

The extra punch comes from focusing the output from a polished reflector through the material, unlike the soft, diffuse sides of a softbox. The more directional light punches through.
 
THANK YOU ALL for providing intelligent discussion on this topic. This is the form of discussion I was hoping to elicit and has provided good food for thought.

Regards,
Mike I.
Mike I. said:
Looking for working pro's opinions....

Which of you subscribe to the notion of using a diffusion panel in
front of your strobes versus a soft box and why?

One of the reasons I ask is that the notion of using the light's
pnumbra (sp) as the sweet-spot for lighting is something I've read
about and seldom played with. When I moved from umbrellas to using
soft boxes, the notion of using the pnumbra seemingly gets lost
when using such large light sources. With diffusion panels, I
would think I could get diffusion (not as much as I get with the
soft boxes), but still control both the size of the light source
and still manage the pnumbra. Is managing light that way still the
more desirable way to light clasic formal portraits? Are the soft
boxes diminishing the overall quality I could otherwise achieve?
Or is this simply 'style'.

I am currently using 4 Photogenic powerlights -2 500WS and 2 250WS;
the main is diffused with a meduim softbox, fill is using a 6'
softbox, hair is using a 20 degree grid and I vary the 4th as as
kicker or background. Lighting is pretty good, but I'm wondering
if I should use the main head on with a standard reflector and a 6'
diffusion screen in front of it to vary the light quality more
precisely.

Thoughts?

Regards,
Mike
Click to expand...
 
A really creative use I've seen of panels (sort of) was that someone created window light by setting up an opaque panel on the other side of a large makeshift "window" that had shears over it. They shot into the panel, bouncing the light back thru the sheers, creating realistic window light in the studio.
--
Jim DeLuco
DeLuco Photography
http://www.delucophoto.com
 
Jim DeLuco said:
Sorry, typo. should be "same or brighter"
Click to expand...
And here I thought you were trying to rhyme like Pygmaliion...

The light, this night, must be placed just right... and Bright!

To name the main, please, so I can buy the same...

I must shop for a lens to allow a hop to the stop on the spot! A lot!

As you will, adjust the fill on the hill... (Ah, just take a pill...)
Jim DeLuco said:
--
Jim DeLuco
DeLuco Photography
http://www.delucophoto.com
Click to expand...
--
Design is good for the soul.
 
nosarious said:
nosarious said:
Sorry, typo. should be "same or brighter"
Click to expand...
And here I thought you were trying to rhyme like Pygmaliion...

The light, this night, must be placed just right... and Bright!

To name the main, please, so I can buy the same...

I must shop for a lens to allow a hop to the stop on the spot! A lot!

As you will, adjust the fill on the hill... (Ah, just take a pill...)
nosarious said:
--
Jim DeLuco
DeLuco Photography
http://www.delucophoto.com
Click to expand...
--
Design is good for the soul.
Click to expand...
--

I LOVE IT!! Thank's for the laugh...

Jim DeLuco
DeLuco Photography
http://www.delucophoto.com
 
Great thread folks. I hope to incorporate some of the items mentioned.
Jim DeLuco said:
nosarious said:
Jim DeLuco said:
Sorry, typo. should be "same or brighter"
Click to expand...
And here I thought you were trying to rhyme like Pygmaliion...

The light, this night, must be placed just right... and Bright!

To name the main, please, so I can buy the same...

I must shop for a lens to allow a hop to the stop on the spot! A lot!

As you will, adjust the fill on the hill... (Ah, just take a pill...)
Jim DeLuco said:
--
Jim DeLuco
DeLuco Photography
http://www.delucophoto.com
Click to expand...
--
Design is good for the soul.
Click to expand...
--

I LOVE IT!! Thank's for the laugh...

Jim DeLuco
DeLuco Photography
http://www.delucophoto.com
Click to expand...
 
Hi Dan,

If ever there were an example of why not to use panels, this is it. The portrait is flat and the eyeglass glare is terrible. And it would be next to impossible to retouch because of the location in the eyes.

With an umbrellla or softbox you could have raised the light enough to get rid of most of it, or at least gotten it out of the center of the eyes.

Paul
Daniel Payne said:
Mike,

Here's a recent example I created for a corporate customer using a
panel on camera right for the main, and an umbrella above camera
for fill:



--
Daniel Payne
Canon D30, 28-135mm IS, 550EX, ST-E2, Novatron lights
http://danieljpayne.com/
Click to expand...
 
Hello Paul. Why can't use raise or lower strobes if panels are used? I'm confused as usual. I have a diffusion panel, which is independent of my strobes.

Regards,
Paul Ferrara said:
If ever there were an example of why not to use panels, this is it.
The portrait is flat and the eyeglass glare is terrible. And it
would be next to impossible to retouch because of the location in
the eyes.

With an umbrellla or softbox you could have raised the light enough
to get rid of most of it, or at least gotten it out of the center
of the eyes.

Paul
Daniel Payne said:
Mike,

Here's a recent example I created for a corporate customer using a
panel on camera right for the main, and an umbrella above camera
for fill:



--
Daniel Payne
Canon D30, 28-135mm IS, 550EX, ST-E2, Novatron lights
http://danieljpayne.com/
Click to expand...
--
Click to expand...
 
Hi Phil,

In order to maximize the benefits of the panel, the strobe should be as far away from it as possible. If you're not going to do that you're just using a small diffuser and most of the panel is just taking up space. How do you raise the light and still use all of the panel? That's the advantage of softboxes and umbrellas; they move with the light.

Paul
pfiltz said:
Hello Paul. Why can't use raise or lower strobes if panels are
used? I'm confused as usual. I have a diffusion panel, which is
independent of my strobes.

Regards,
Click to expand...
 
Paul Ferrara said:
In order to maximize the benefits of the panel, the strobe should
be as far away from it as possible. If you're not going to do that
you're just using a small diffuser and most of the panel is just
taking up space. How do you raise the light and still use all of
the panel? That's the advantage of softboxes and umbrellas; they
move with the light.

Paul
pfiltz said:
Hello Paul. Why can't use raise or lower strobes if panels are
used? I'm confused as usual. I have a diffusion panel, which is
independent of my strobes.

Regards,
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--

But yes, you could move the flash back, add a snoot to it, move the panel up and aim the flash at the center of the panel....add a gobo below the panel to avoid stray light. By then you will be so tired of screwing with it that Paul's advice (buy a softbox or umbrella's) will be very attractive.

On second thought, add a room to the house with large windows on the North side.

Jim DeLuco
DeLuco Photography
http://www.delucophoto.com
 
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