Negativism about the K20D

hwblanks said:

As far as I'm concerned, Pentax has everything I need in bodies and
lenses at a great value, so I'm staying put. I've even got the
t-shirt!

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Your post was good up until the t-shirt comment. I take the advice of forum members here and moved to another brand. It is excellent advice too!

holy cow! Are we in the western world spoiled or what?

at this point, the only things in my mind are:

1. Where to find $1299.

2. How to make that $1299 disappear without any trace.

3. How to change the marking "K20D" to "K10D."

• Is that a new camera?
• No, honey. Remember? I bought this K10D last year !

-- SOldBear

Spoiled? Perhaps... but when the competitors are offering better AFS, similar IQ, and a broader assortment of lenses, is expecting Pentax to give its customers as much asking "too much". Not if you want Pentax to be around for the long haul and improve what it gives consumers in terms of products and choices...

--
Best Regards,
Bob
http://www.flickr.com/photos/innerdemon/

InnerDemon said:

Robo,

You are indeed correct on the phenomenon of people thinking things
are worse than they are. Of course, you should also point out that
the bigger danger is people (and companies) thinking things are
better than they actually are and/or kidding themselves about the
need to take action to correct certain situations.
More people are apt to get into trouble by denial than those who
think situations are worse than they actually are. Delusion and
denial are the real villains to worry about. And this forum is chock
full of people that have some mystical belief in Pentax... based
on... on... well, I don't know what!

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No one can disagree that realism is preferable to ungrounded pessimism or optimism. But as the old malapropism goes, it's hard to make predictions, especially about the future. I take the view that Pentax considered all the possibilities and decided to omit certain feature upgrades in order to keep the price of the K20D in a range that would not shut out a significant segment of the amateur enthusiast market. Will this strategy succeed? Stay tuned for the answer in 6-9 months.

Regarding all the negativism that has filled this forum, it's hard to discern whether people are upset because the camera is not everything that they personally want it to be, or because they fear that it's "deficiencies" will lead to a commercial failure, or both. Pentax is betting that potential customers will be so impressed by the high MP count and outstanding IQ, that they won't be bothered by the good, but not great, continuous shooting and AF.

Rob

InnerDemon said:

Spoiled? Perhaps... but when the competitors are offering better AFS,
similar IQ, and a broader assortment of lenses, is expecting Pentax
to give its customers as much asking "too much". Not if you want
Pentax to be around for the long haul and improve what it gives
consumers in terms of products and choices...

--
Best Regards,
Bob
http://www.flickr.com/photos/innerdemon/

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The competition does have more selection of newer lenses, more expensive lenses and thats about it. Oh, and the competition also offers less backwards compatibility regarding lenses too.

--
Pentax K100D Super
FA 50mm 1.4
FAj 75-300
DA 18-55
http://www.pbase.com/metalfab/

"Spoiled? Perhaps... but when the competitors are offering better AFS, similar IQ, and a broader assortment of lenses, is expecting Pentax to give its customers as much asking "too much". Not if you want Pentax to be around for the long haul and improve what it gives consumers in terms of products and choices..."

Very true,

But I have to admit that the time I spend reading (and posting) threads about a new camera and the ridiculous outlay of emotion with regard to said makes me feel a little guilty and selfish (and a little ashamed). One of any of these cameras cost more than the accumulated wealth of generations of families for a good part of the non-western world. It's no wonder they resent us.

Rob,

I believe that behind the anger, frustration, venting, etc., people believe that Pentax did not:

1. Listen to their concerns about A/F

2. Do as much as they thought it could to bring more lenses to market to compliment the K10D and offer consumers as much choice as some of the competition

3. Disappointed them, since some consumers are facing the possibility of switching to another brand - not an easy thing to do (I know - I just switched to Nikon).
4. Probably feel a bit frustrated seeing what the competitors are offering.

The comprehensive auto bracketing option looks pretty interesting, but how many people would make use of this feature vs. a faster AF system? You don't have to answer this one...

There is a chance that the new feature to enable the AF system to bypass the double check and take a crack at capturing the image on the first try may improve some of the AF woes of the past. I personally wrote and requested along with others on the forum.

Pentax's "Customer Oriented" response? "We don't make product feature decisions in the US. Those decisions are made in Japan". Hardly a ringing endorsement that Pentax was listening...

Well, let's see what happens with the K20D/K200D in the market. Should be interesting to watch. If you buy one, please give us a report!

---
Best Regards,
Bob
http://www.flickr.com/photos/innerdemon/

I was fine w/ the K10D- the only thing it needs for me is faster AF, and maybe 1 stop less noise. Oh yea, and better metering. So this new camera might bring all three. But now Pentax needs to do something about the 16-50. It just sucks wide open compared to what C/N have been coming out with lately. Frankly at this point I am just using the Pentax lenses I already have until I make the next jump. Was waiting for PMA to see what Canon did for the 5DII, maybe I'll wait another 6 months. If Canon disappoints, then its Nikon unless Pentax fixes the 16-50's issues.

Frank

Russell Evans said:

The negativism surrounding the announcement of this camera is both
surprising and inappropriate, IMO. Is it always like this in Pentax World?

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Pentax is NOT the ONLY brand that is subject to this kind of pattern.
You should look at the way we treat new entries over on the Sony/Minolta
forums!!!

It is the same "The Sky Is Falling" or "The End Of The World Is Here"
type of thing.

Unfortunately. I have done my share of dis-ing the latest releases of
a camera.... BUT I will try manfully not to in the future....

Russell Evans said:

If I'm wrong, sue me ;> )

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I would bet you hit the nail of the head.... with minor differences.

Humans just do this kind of thing.

By the way, the Pentax's sound pretty good to me. Good Luck!

--
Gil
Sardis, BC
Canada

Since I have more than one system I can tell you from the other lists that one thing the C and N brand posters whine about is that the Pentax users get listened to more by the company when new stuff comes out. Most of them don't think their makers listen to them at all. They ***** about the nice features that the new Pentax's get that they don't.

Right now the Canon people are whining about the fact that the new 450D is hardly different than the 400D and might be a waste of money.
Kent Gittings

Well, I think that Pentax made the right decision with K20D, Developing a HQ cmos sensor that is 14.5mp is a milestone. Higher in mp and quality than any APS sensor out there, including Canon or Sony. I think the K20D seem to be a great and promising camera. So many of us are excited about that, and please, it's not a cult. It's just that some of us know that Pentax always choose quality over Quantity, and that's what we appreciate.

Jacob

JacobSR said:

It's
just that some of us know that Pentax always choose quality over
Quantity, and that's what we appreciate.

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Hmm, 14.5MP in an APS sensor isn't quantity? If the sensor technology is as good as they suggest just imagine the camera they could have produced using a new tech 10MP sensor? High frame rate with very good DR.

--
Rob

distudio said:

JacobSR said:

It's
just that some of us know that Pentax always choose quality over
Quantity, and that's what we appreciate.

Click to expand...

Hmm, 14.5MP in an APS sensor isn't quantity? If the sensor technology
is as good as they suggest just imagine the camera they could have
produced using a new tech 10MP sensor? High frame rate with very good
DR.

Click to expand...

And then we would have people complaining that Pentax didn't keep up with the Jones's regarding MP's. That would be the case!

Personally, I feel that if they can produce a 14.5 MP sensor that seems to show IQ better than the 10MP from Sony then I am all for it. It shows a logical moving away from Sony and to where their future sensors seem to lie, and that is with Samsung. For me, and it would seem 90% of other users, a higher fps is not an essential requirement.
http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/blog_index.html

--
Lance B

Originator of the term 'LBA'.

http://www.pbase.com/lance_b
GMT +11hours

--
J-A

• Photography records life

1 - I do not know as well
2 - some paper work
3 - use black CD marker pen (weatherproof)

Best wishes
--
---
Chris

Lance B said:

And then we would have people complaining that Pentax didn't keep up
with the Jones's regarding MP's. That would be the case!

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If that's what you think but personally I'd take the Nikon D3's 12.1MP any day.

Lance B said:

Personally, I feel that if they can produce a 14.5 MP sensor that
seems to show IQ better than the 10MP from Sony then I am all for it.
It shows a logical moving away from Sony and to where their future
sensors seem to lie, and that is with Samsung. For me, and it would
seem 90% of other users, a higher fps is not an essential requirement.

Click to expand...

Well frame rate isn't as much as an issue for me as buffer clearing time but having used cameras with high frame rates I know that they also offer subtle advantages in single shot mode also. Finder blanking time and response shot to shot is far quicker, it can make getting shot timing right so much easier.

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/blog_index.html

Mike's a nice guy and he's used a lot of cameras but he doesn't know everything.

--
Rob

soldbear said:

at this point, the only things in my mind are:

1. Where to find $1299.

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Yep, I know what you mean... Me, I already sold a piece of redundant glass to free up some money...

soldbear said:

2. How to make that $1299 disappear without any trace.

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No problem here... phfew... Fortunately we have separate personal bank accounts and one common one...

soldbear said:

3. How to change the marking "K20D" to "K10D."

• Is that a new camera?
• No, honey. Remember? I bought this K10D last year !

Click to expand...

That's easy as the bodies are so similar... Tell her you did a firmware upgrade... And if she doesn't buy that, just tell her you were required to pass at a store for that and they changed the label for you to reflect the new firmware... ;-)

Wim

--
Belgium, GMT+1

distudio said:

Lance B said:

And then we would have people complaining that Pentax didn't keep up
with the Jones's regarding MP's. That would be the case!

Click to expand...

If that's what you think but personally I'd take the Nikon D3's
12.1MP any day.

Click to expand...

Without even seeing what the K20D maybe capable of?

distudio said:

distudio said:

Personally, I feel that if they can produce a 14.5 MP sensor that
seems to show IQ better than the 10MP from Sony then I am all for it.
It shows a logical moving away from Sony and to where their future
sensors seem to lie, and that is with Samsung. For me, and it would
seem 90% of other users, a higher fps is not an essential requirement.

Click to expand...

Well frame rate isn't as much as an issue for me as buffer clearing
time but having used cameras with high frame rates I know that they
also offer subtle advantages in single shot mode also. Finder
blanking time and response shot to shot is far quicker, it can make
getting shot timing right so much easier.

Click to expand...

I've never found the buffer clearing to be an issue either on the K10D. Obviously I don't need the speed.

distudio said:

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/blog_index.html

Mike's a nice guy and he's used a lot of cameras but he doesn't know
everything.

Click to expand...

That's right and neither do you or I. I do, however, place some creedence to his wisdom due to his experience and garner information from it as I do from some others, and sometimes even from you.

--
Lance B

Originator of the term 'LBA'.

http://www.pbase.com/lance_b
GMT +11hours

Lance B said:

Without even seeing what the K20D maybe capable of?

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Absolutely, I know what the D3 can do at high ISO and I know that rationally it's an impossibility for a APS sensor to come close in DR and noise figures particularly at the high ISOs. Noise and DR tests will surely bear this out in time.

Lance B said:

I've never found the buffer clearing to be an issue either on the
K10D. Obviously I don't need the speed.

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No well it hasn't bothered me either as I still don't have my K10D back from CRK service (104 days and counting). I'm bound to use my *ist D at the moment.

Lance B said:

That's right and neither do you or I. I do, however, place some
creedence to his wisdom due to his experience and garner information
from it as I do from some others, and sometimes even from you.

Click to expand...

Indeed, but at the end of the day it's his perspective and it's valid for him.

--
Rob