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FZ18-Yellow Spots at High ISO settings?

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First, a big thanks - tool works as advertised

Second, one question: using the "low frequency noise" (removal) setting, I indeed get the yellow blotches out - which is great. However I also get a lot of detail lost - and a lot of the stuff gets pixelised / posterised. So, at the risk of bugging you a bit too much, would you have any middle of the road suggestions, that would get most of the blotches out, but retain the detail better? ;-)

Thanks again
 
I'm a bit surprised that you're having those problems with Neat Image.
I've been doing the following...

Load the original image
Click Tab 2 "Device noise Profile", then "Auto Profile"
Zoom to 100% (it doesn't matter when you do this)
Click Tab 3. "Noise filter settings".

Click "Preview" to launch the preview outline. You can move the outline around over the image with a mouse drag.

Select the filter preset...Advanced / Filter low frequency splotches and wait for the software to recalculate.

Now you'll be able to compare the original with the a processed by moving the window around. Do you see problems under those conditions?

Also, are you using the free version of Neat Image? That one will save only highly compressed JPG files, which will have a decreased quality

Sherm
antoineb said:
First, a big thanks - tool works as advertised

Second, one question: using the "low frequency noise" (removal)
setting, I indeed get the yellow blotches out - which is great.
However I also get a lot of detail lost - and a lot of the stuff gets
pixelised / posterised. So, at the risk of bugging you a bit too
much, would you have any middle of the road suggestions, that would
get most of the blotches out, but retain the detail better? ;-)

Thanks again
Click to expand...
 
sherman_levine said:
With the "Noise filter settings" tab highlighted, click the pulldown
at the top right labeled "noise filter preset"- From there highlight
Advanced and you'll see the second level choices.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I didn't even realize that the noise filter preset was a pull down menu.
 
sherman_levine said:
Didn't change the sliders - that's what picking the preset does. (if
you try different presets, you'll see that the sliders on tab 3
change as you do so).
Do you have a link to the images in question? I tried your church
picture at the start of the thread, but that's only 800x600.

Sherm
Click to expand...
Hi Sherm, I haven't posted the bad ones yet as i took over 400 shots at the game. I did post three of the good ones in a different thread where the noise wasn't bad. I will post one of the bad ones later and let you know where it is.
 
...but I've just run a few tests

Basically, I've found that Noiseware did as good a job as others in removing nasty noise - and the "yellow splotches" it takes care of even at default settings.

And more importantly, to me, it definitely keeps a lot of the detail better.

Again - this is just my experience, at default settings, processing a few shots.
 
antoineb said:
...but I've just run a few tests

Basically, I've found that Noiseware did as good a job as others in
removing nasty noise - and the "yellow splotches" it takes care of
even at default settings.

And more importantly, to me, it definitely keeps a lot of the detail
better.

Again - this is just my experience, at default settings, processing a
few shots.
Click to expand...
I have Noiseware too. I will have to try it on my basketball game shots.
 
Elizabeth Klisiewicz said:
I saw some of the same artifacts in the pictures I took with my
F31fd, but they were much less obvious.
Click to expand...
I saw them too in photo taken with my F20. But they were much smaller, caused less smearing of detail and appear in low light shots taken at ISO 1600!
Elizabeth Klisiewicz said:
For the most part, in low
light, the Panny cannot touch the Fuji. I think I will stick to using
my Panny in good light and at low ISO settings.
Click to expand...
Me too. Fortunately, I don't take a lot of low light/high ISO photos. Now when I do, the F20 will cover my bases. I love my FZ18 but become disappointed when I see those yellow splotches.

John, I see them too in your otherwise fine photo taken at the Cafe Britt coffee plantation:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=26541510

Had I known about the splotches earlier I honestly may not have kept the camera. But, as I mentioned, I don't take a lot of low light/high ISO photos so this issue initially passed me by. Don't think dpreview reported it either (or the blue band).

--
gail ~ http://www.pbase.com/gailb

My digital camera BLOGs: Fuji F20; Pany FZ18 & TZ3; Canon S2, SD700 & A570; Nikon 5400
http://www.digicamhelp.com/camera-logs/index.php
 
...I think a D300 at ISO 1'600 (or maybe even 2'000 or a bit more), with its 6-plus fps, and the 3D AF tracking, might be a weapon of choice.

But yes, it's about 6x more money as a FZ-18, and yes, I did return mine after 9 days of ownership (but I don't shoot baseball ;-)

Frankly now that I have the memories of a high-quality "enthusiast" dslr:
  • I recognize more quickly the IQ issues of a wider range of FZ-18 shots - though the recent discovery of Noiseware (thanks to forum participants here!) makes me a bit happier
  • I'm still very happy about how light / nimble / flexible / insconpicuous the FZ-18 is, and about all kinds of presets that can be called by turning the main dial which is much simpler than having to go into a menu to recall a pre-set
  • I'm still not sure whether I'll take the dslr jump again though I do keep thinking about it, and it's pretty clear that after the 12mp 450D w liveview we'll probably get the 12mp D90 so there'll be a lot to chose from
 
OK, Sherm, I have posted a real doozy of a photo that shows the very worst the FZ-18 can produce. Yellow splotches and the blue band problem. I did nothing to this photo, but attempts to remove the yellow splotches were not successful. See it here:

 
Thanks - just curious

It looks fairly high ISO, and lighting was clearly not very bright, and the shutter doesn't seem that fast - but it would be easier to tell from EXIF data ;-)

Thanks
 


Used Noise Ninja auto profile, then adjusted the collor correction (3 sliders on the right) from 10 to 20 each and checked the box that says "coars noise".

Getting rid of the blue is another challenge.

I just read that you have Noiseware. Try these settings on the fullsize picture:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=26271032

Run it twice for a little extra removal. For removal of some of the grain, move the slider for luminance noise reduction up a notch.
 
antoineb said:
Thanks - just curious

It looks fairly high ISO, and lighting was clearly not very bright,
and the shutter doesn't seem that fast - but it would be easier to
tell from EXIF data ;-)
Click to expand...
It was taken in Indoor Sports Mode, which does not allow you to control the ISO. And yes it was very high, which explains the lousy noise levels.
 
I took your original image (not the one you linked in the thread) and used Neat Image's "filter low frequency splotches" default, and then took the noise levels/low slider (the 3rd one down when the "noise filter settings" tab is highlighted), and set that to +150%. Couldn't get rid of all the yellow, but I think it's less obtrusive when smoothed out.

 
I copied and pasted your link but it only gets me to an image which has no EXIF ino?

I don't want to be a bore, but whatever the mode, the settings used by the camera will be recording in the EXIF data? I was just curious - but don't bother if you're too busy.

Thanks
 
http://eklisiewicz.smugmug.com/Sports

The site's a bit weird. There's a slidein bar which appears when you put the cursor over the picture on the right. You can click on the "info" button, but the info is rather limited. On the other hand, If you click on the "original", and wait for it to load, you can then use your browser plugin to see EXIF.

Sherm
antoineb said:
I copied and pasted your link but it only gets me to an image which
has no EXIF ino?

I don't want to be a bore, but whatever the mode, the settings used
by the camera will be recording in the EXIF data? I was just curious
  • but don't bother if you're too busy.
Thanks
Click to expand...
 
sherman_levine said:
http://eklisiewicz.smugmug.com/Sports
The site's a bit weird. There's a slidein bar which appears when you
put the cursor over the picture on the right. You can click on the
"info" button, but the info is rather limited. On the other hand, If
you click on the "original", and wait for it to load, you can then
use your browser plugin to see EXIF.

Sherm
Click to expand...
If you hover over the displayed photo, a window will pop up on the right.

Click on Photo Info.

The EXIF information will display. See the screen capture below for reference.

 
...of course it's too late for us owners of an FZ-18.

But given the discussion here about how to remove the "yellow blotches", and how these were related to "low frequency noise" - I found it interesting to read in one press release from Panny, that the Venus Engine IV took care of removing low-frequency noise, while leaving high frequences - which contain detail - largely untouched.

I know, a lot has been said in the past by Panny, about how each new incarnation of the Venus Engine was so much better than the previous one - until we again would see yellow blotches, even at low ISO in some cases.

But hope springs eternal.

So my bet is on a FZ-xx with at least 18x zoom (or why not 20x), an 10mp (which is too many imho), released some time this summer, w Venus Engine IV.
 
sherman_levine said:
I took your original image (not the one you linked in the thread) and
used Neat Image's "filter low frequency splotches" default, and then
took the noise levels/low slider (the 3rd one down when the "noise
filter settings" tab is highlighted), and set that to +150%. Couldn't
get rid of all the yellow, but I think it's less obtrusive when
smoothed out.
Click to expand...
It looks better than the original. Thanks. I will try it myself.
 
JortS29 said:


Used Noise Ninja auto profile, then adjusted the collor correction (3
sliders on the right) from 10 to 20 each and checked the box that
says "coars noise".

Getting rid of the blue is another challenge.

I just read that you have Noiseware. Try these settings on the
fullsize picture:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=26271032

Run it twice for a little extra removal. For removal of some of the
grain, move the slider for luminance noise reduction up a notch.
Click to expand...
Those screens in that thread do not look like my version of Noiseware Pro. I have version 2.5.1 of the standalone version. And even though I get the sliders, they only let me change percentages in increments of 5. I cannot get the values you show in the referenced thread.

--
Gallery is online at eklisiewicz.smugmug.com
Nikon D70s, Fuji Finepix F31fd, Panasonic FZ-18
 
Making many dance shots, I know this problem and I have observed that a quick and easy way of removing yellow blotches is simply to brighten the yellows. With Photoshop for example, add about 42 % of luminosity to the yellows of the above picture and the job is done ! It's kind of magic. On the contrary, you often need to make the blues a bit darker and desaturated.

If you use Neat Image before doing so, you will get the best of your indoors pics, IMHO.

Of course, if you have a yellow object to denoise, the trick may be not so satisfying...
--



http://imagesdedanse.over-blog.com/ - http://www.flickr.com/photos/imagesdedanse/sets/
 
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