New Pentax High ISO...Will you switch?

roblarosa said:

No. First, it's all BS until we hear it from Pentax. Second, people
who buy high-dollar cameras are not only buying a camera body, but an
entire "system".
...

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That might apply to you and me, but given that I've seen entire tribes switch from Nikon to Canon to Nikon over the summer (or claiming to do so) because Nikon wasn't introducing the D300 quick enough I have some reservations about that statement.

Speaking of which, the D300 is starting to get long in the tooth. Nikon, give us the D400 this PMA or I'll switch to Samsung!

roblarosa said:

which means they probably already have money invested in Nikon
equipment and couldn't care less if the Pentax could iron their
shirts and make breakfast.

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Iron shirts AND make breakfast? Really, I might get the Pentax just for that reason...

--
Cheers,
Bart

Verdict1st said:

Hey everyone, I usually post in the Pentax forum so

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so you thought you'd stir up things with rumors about an unannounced body from a 3rd-tier manufacturer whose owner has expressed misgivings about investing in future competitive products?

Great idea!

Verdict1st said:

I was just curious about one thing. For
those of you using the d200 or d300, will you be tempted to switch by
the new Pentax k20d

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Yes, I'm sure there are legins of Nikon owners who want to jump to another platform based on the specs of a single unannounced camera body for a system in which it is impossible to rent lenses, from a company whose new owners say they they want to focus on Pentax's medical imaging division.

I do everytime something new comes out. I can never wait until my brand catches up on the latest inovation.

In the last year I switched cameras (and of course all lenses and gear) 5 times, it only cost me $ 125,000.
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Im having too much fun with my D 100 to worry about what camera comes next

Looks like a good spec but I already own a good Canon (for f4 range of excellent zooms) & Nikon setup and would lose a ton if I sold all my stuff of to switch. When I expanded into Canon setup I sold my Nikon lenses & bodies that I didn't need; along with saving some readies ££/$$ up as well.
--



My Pictures & Web Site: http://www.dltp.co.uk

I have to have the best equipment out there. I am in the process to mortgage my house and get the 1DsMKIII with a bunch of L lenses. I will be ready for National Geography.

That's how it works, right?

Josh

--Nah, 14mp is way to much, somethimes I think 12mp is more than I need, I did many big prints with 2.7 and 4mps. but I do like some of those little Pentax primes, to bad they are so slow, but if the price is right it may be a good option to add, but not switch. hopefully it will have a great AF and many FPS.
Roger.

Amateurs worry about sharpness.
Professionals worry about sales.
Photographers worry about light.

Pentax with a 1.4 50mm, CMOS sensor and in body stabilizing should give me an incredible low light camera

--
cameras don't shoot people
People shoot people.

Here we go again... Pentax stuff is made by Samsung.

You're posting in the Nikon forum. It's like asking BMW or Mercedes owners if they're going to switch to a Honda.

Seriously, Pentax is close to the Sony league, but Canon and Nikon play in a league all their own.

Next thing you know someone is going to bring up Olympus... Oh boy.

--
Save pixels, please trim your follow-ups and don't quote attached images.

No - for various reasons.

1st - there's no reason to. Those who wish to chase every 2 megapixel increase instead of working on other aspects of their photography or, from a gear viewpoint, getting better lenses are chasing the wrong thing. The difference between 12 and 14 mp won't be anywhere as noticeable as the difference between a good lens and a great lens.

2nd - 12mp on a DX sensor is already on the edge of pushing the diffraction limit into a usable aperture range for me (my test seem to indicate around F/11 is the quality limit with both D2X and D300 bodies). So increasing the megapixel count doesn't help there as now I'm likely diffraction limited at F/9 or F/10 - sorry, but no thanks.

3rd - I prefer Nikon lenses

4th - I already own a substantial Nikon system. Even, let's say, the new Pentax body is a few percent "better" than the D300 (which, quite honestly, is NOT a sure thing), it's not going to be a 'blow away" situation - as I've stated before, I can take a D80 and produce amazing results (technically) because I have invested in excellent glass and have solid photographic technique - and while the D2X/D300 are "better" bodies, you'd be hard pressed to tell even in a 16x20 print expertly made (which I've done). Short answer - the megapixel differences aren't as meaningful as the glass quality you own and the technical post process and shooting skills you have.

Those who switch because of a new Pentax body when they already have invested in a Nikon D200 or D300 system, quite frankly, are seriously misguided. Bodies come and go - glass and your skills are more important at this point than the minor differences in bodies. And that's not of course even taking into account the new Pentax is even better than the D300 - just because it's new doesn't mean it will be. (and scientifically - the diffraction limit thing can NOT be worked around - it is set in stone, so right there, for me, the Pentax body, or, for that matter, ANY manufacturers 14-15mp DX sensor sized body, will NOT work for me - due to diffraction issues, and that's not opinion - that's simply fact, so right there that rules me out from anyones higher MP DX sized body. 12mp is a sweet spot that I'm not interested in going beyond in a cropped sensor. FF of course is another story)

-m

What are you going to do with a mole of iso?
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see profile for equipment

You may be eating your words:
here's the latest specs.
Also, look at the new lenses on the way.....it's finally a system.

And this is not really for the super-pro. I know as well as you that this is nothing compared to the D3. But if you don't have a heavy lens investment, Pentax lenses are some of the best quality out there. Just not enough of them ... yet...

Also, sorry about the rough translation.

14.6 MP CMOS sensor
• Fast Signal Processing PRIME
• Dust Alert - for dust removal system at the touch
• pixel mapping
• 14-bit analog converter
• ISO 100 - 6400
• Dynamic Range Enlargement
• Noise suppression hardware base
• Noise Suppression software additionally
• Live View on the high-resolution monitor
• Digital Preview (after editing stored)
• depth of field preview
• histogram display in retail channels
• Penta prism viewfinder
• Shake Reduction 4 LW
• 16 field exposure measurement
• 11 point distance measurement - 9 Cross sensors
• AF adjustment
• Custom image with 4 color profiles
• 5 color profiles and SW-recording function
• RAW files in the DNG format - RAW + JPEG simultaneously
• Individual file name can be forgiven for recording
• Interval Timer
• X-sync contact for flash plant
• 3-level sensor cleaning system
• 2.7 "monitor
• Monitor Kalibrierbarer
• zoomable text size to 150%
• 4 exposure modes (normal, high speed, depth of focus, MTF)
• bracketing by a trigger pressure
• Programmable adjustment wheels
• Wireless flash control
• Housing seals against moisture and dust
• JPEG without limit - to 16 RAW in a row
• nearly 3 frames per second - burst mode with 20 B / sec.
• bracketing for white balance, color saturation, hue, contrast, sharpness
• Water and Staubgedichtet
New 14.6-megapixel CMOS sensor with dust(Dust Reduction)
Shake Reduction (SR) to 4 Exposure Levels With opto-magnetic sensor 3D
11-point AF with 9 cross sensors and individual AFAnpassung
Sensitivity to ISO 100 - 6400
2.7'monitor with 230,000 Dots
Pentax KAF2-Lens
Free adjustable white balance with Bracketing function
14 bit analog converter
File formats: JPEG into 4 stages, RAW (optional DNG PEF or format)
Preview features: real-time view, and Optical Digital Preview
Optional battery grip, removable disks Matt
SD and SDHC Memory Cards
Dimensions: 141.5 (W) x 101 (H) x 70 (T) mm,
Weight: 715 grams (without battery and SD memory card)
$ 1299, - (UPE) in a set with 18-55mm II
Launch Spring 2008
14.6 megapixels (effective)
• 2.7'monitor with a resolution of 230,000
Dots
• Live View
• sensitivity ISO 100 6400
• Custom image with 4 color profiles
• 36 programmable custom functions
• flash sync terminal for studio flash systems
• Image Succession in burst mode with 20 images per second
• Finer gradations in JPEG format
• series with white balance function
--

I choose to shoot with the camera brand that makes the 3 highest quality lenses in history. That's right. I shoot Pentax.

josh007 said:

I have to have the best equipment out there. I am in the process to
mortgage my house and get the 1DsMKIII with a bunch of L lenses. I
will be ready for National Geography.

That's how it works, right?

Josh

Click to expand...

Oh please. I am not switching, and I started the post! Of course it's silly to buy the greatest thing every time something new comes out. But, this is a revolutionary camera. I am curious whether it tempts those who own a d200 and were thinking of upgrading. That's all.
--

I choose to shoot with the camera brand that makes the 3 highest quality lenses in history. That's right. I shoot Pentax.

larsbc said:

Verdict1st said:

Hey everyone, I usually post in the Pentax forum so I haven't really
gotten to know you all. I was just curious about one thing. For
those of you using the d200 or d300, will you be tempted to switch by
the new Pentax k20d, especially considering the incredible High-ISO
pictures posted today? (Unverified, of course)

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Which pic are you referring to? If it's the ISO3200 photo, it looks
to be about the same as what I'm already getting from my D300.

[snip]

larsbc said:

In viewfinder Live View (no chimping, again unverified)

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This sounds pretty bogus. Why would they actually go through the
trouble and expense to put an LCD screen in the viewfinder? Makes no
sense to me. I'm not a Live View snob but Live View through the
viewfinder is something I don't see as being advantageous...at least
in any significant way. A flip/twist LCD is more useful for Live
View, imo.

It sounds like a nice camera and Pentax users should be happy, but
there's nothing there that is going to woo many Canon or Nikon
shooters into their camp. IMO the draw is the same as ever: some
interesting primes (I like the pancakes) and the in-body
stabilization. But that's nothing new and I've settled for Nikon's
VR system.

larsbc

Click to expand...

Very true, the 3200 in the d300 is fantastic.

Live View on the screen is what bothers me, not live view on the VF. Imagine, no more chimping...ever.

I would love a flip-twist, but I don't think that's happening yet. Also, check out the fastest burst mode ever for an slr.
--

I choose to shoot with the camera brand that makes the 3 highest quality lenses in history. That's right. I shoot Pentax.

It looks good, but less than 3fps is pretty pathetic these days and only found in the most entry level of cameras. The $400 D40 and some point and shoot camreras shoot at the same frame rate. Also, the whole system needs to be considered, and is far more important than one camera body. Nikon and Canon's lens selection and Nikon's flash system is simply too good to ignore in my opinion. Also, in my opinion, in-lens VR is better than in-body VR as you can see the stabilization in the viewfinder and at least currently offers the greatest amount of VR. I understand the advantage of the in-body VR is that every lens gets it, but I would much rather have it in the lens.

Looks like an OK camera, but I predict, like the Sony A700, it will go largely unnoticed and Nikon/Canon will continue to dominate sales.

Mark

I'm a Pentax user myself but I catch myself wondering what you think is so revolutionary about the k20d. It has 2 more megapixels than the d300 yet probably lags far behind in AF and fps. The high iso noise will probably not be as good as Nikon's due to the 2 extra megapixels and Pentax's history. The camera is a step above last generation's but is nothing amazing compared to Sony, Canon, Olympus and Nikon's current offerings.

And besides, switching would mean going to a more limited lens selection as well as a pretty basic flash system in comparison to Nikons. You have a very tough sell here.

--
http://picasaweb.google.com/chrswggl

Verdict1st wrote:
[snip]

Verdict1st said:

Live View on the screen is what bothers me, not live view on the VF.
Imagine, no more chimping...ever.

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Yeah but you're looking through the viewfinder to see a review of the shot?? Considering how infrequently I chimp, it's not really a selling point for me. Hmm...let me correct myself because I think I just understood what you're excited about.

I do recall one thing I liked quite a bit with my Minolta A1's electronic viewfinder (EVF): its live view showed the exposure real-time, along with the histogram. That was pretty darned nice. Made it very easy to see how much exp. comp. to dial-in.

Unfortunately, there were downsides as well: 1) slow refresh rate, 2) blooming when viewing bright scenes, 3) coarse image resolution making it difficult to confirm focus w/o zooming in, first. As nice as the live histogram and exposure view was, I have to say that I like an OVF more than an EVF. Unless Pentax puts a truly, truly revolution EVF in the K20D, I expect that my preference will stay the same.

Verdict1st said:

I would love a flip-twist, but I don't think that's happening yet.

Click to expand...

Not with Canon, Nikon or Pentax. But Olympus has one on its E3.

Verdict1st said:

Also, check out the fastest burst mode ever for an slr.

Click to expand...

6fps is actually fine for me. I don't even care to buy the grip for my D300 that will give me 8fps. In any case, isn't that burst mode you're mentioning a highly cropped burst mode? Under 2mp resolution?

The only Pentax I might buy is one where they make a small body that takes AA's and gets high ISO results similar to my D300. I guess that'd be a K200D?? That way I'd have high ISO ability, in-body stabilization, and the ability to use some of those Pentax pancake lenses! It'd be my ideal street photography camera. Ideal, that is, until someone builds a flip/twist LCD P&S that provides APS sensor image quality up to ISO800. That would be even more desirable to me.

larsbc

I doubt I'll be eating my words - think it through a bit...

Look - it's probably going to be a nice body - ALL of the new bodies (not just from Nikon) are - but the differences persay between a D300, Canon 40D and pentax whatever or sony whatever are relatively minor. The truth is, most people do NOT yet "max out" the capabilities of their CURRENT bodies they own (think D80, 30D, D200, whatever 10mp Pentax has at the moment) - and by that I mean this: are they (and you can imagine that as me asking you personally as well) doing the following:
a) maximized your support system if you're a landscape shooter
b) using the very best lenses available for your mount

c) have taken the time to learn and utilize post processing (not in terms of fancy tricks, but in terms of a digital equivalent to darkroom experience) to maximize what you get.

and even then, what size are you printing on a regular basis.

The reality is that we hit the sweet spot for sensor sizes one set of cameras ago. In the Nikon end of things, that was the D80/D200 class. From a purely image quality at low ISO, I can take a D80 and with proper glass and technique, produce a gallery quality 16x20 on my Epson 3800 that is better than anything I ever did in the 25+ years I shot 35mm film. I've made prints from the D80, D2X, and D300 bodies and honestly, at low ISO, you'd be hard pressed to tell which came from which - as I stated in my earlier post, the lenses play a FAR more important role here than the minor differences in the bodies. Can I personally tell the difference - yes, the D2X/D300 has a very minute improvement in resolution that I can pick up at 16x20, but to be brutally frank with you - it's not a deal breaker, even at that size, and I'm extremely well versed technically and am very picky about ultimate image quality (I used to shoot MF and 4x5" chromes in addition to 35mm, so I'm not some newb who is just mouthing off to sound cool on some forum). The lenses, and my skill in post processing (again, in terms of how to sharpen, how to get the proper tonal balance) far outweigh the body differences. Bigtime.

Another thing I didn't mention earlier: Currently the D2X/D300 class of cropped sensor bodies place TREMENDOUS stress on lens performance - due to the pixel density - so by going to 14.5, that gets even tougher, and along with the diffraction issues, that again is going too far for the size of the sensor. I'm almost of the opinion that for most non-professionals, that 10mp is the sweet spot. (which means the Canon 40D is likely a really good option for a whole lot of people, let's say)

Now sure - if you shoot hi ISO exclusively, then the game changes and the newer bodies make some difference - but I'd also argue that a) most people don't shoot at 3200 most of the time and b) people who do simply need to go to full Frame (D3 or Canon 1d mk iii) and be done with it.

So, does that mean one should never buy a new body? No - there are functionality things that make a difference in shooting, but let's not get so caught up in the "new camera of the month" club that we forget what's important.

----------

As an aside - the camera specs aren't that incredible. I'd have a hard time, now that I've used one, settling for less than the quality of the Nikon D3/D300 3" LCD, for example. And as I've mentioned, I can't get around the diffraction limit imposed on me by a 14.5mp sensor in the APS-C (DX) size - that's physics at work there, not opinion - so right there, if you're a landscape shooter who likes F/11, it won't matter how good or not your Pentax glass is because at that point, you're up against the diffraction wall for sure.

So at the end of the day, the new Pentax may appeal to some Pentax system owners (as it rightfully should be), and to some newbies who may like the system. Anyone who thinks it's worth switching systems to if they already own a D300 or D200 are delusional in terms of what's really important.

-m

But its at 1.6MP for 115 frames only....
But could be useful to a pap.

The top end of the enthusiasts/pro market is well represented, and as others have said, the Pentax lens selection is not quite up to Nikon and Canon standards.

But for those who truly want a camera with the best image quality and do not care for 8 frames a second, the choices are very few. Pentax has a good platform for medium format cameras. If they can bring the price down of the MF cameras to reasonable reach from the top end Nikon and Canons ($6000 to $8000), I believe there is a healthy market.

dpc
--
http://www.pbase.com/chedava/galleries

Repeating the specs multiple times in one post won't make a difference. Seriously. Pentax OEMs consumer-grade camera bodies. FIne if you want to compare this to a Nikon D40, D40x, D70 and D80 or the Canon consumer stuff or to Olympus or Sony (as mentioned before) or even Panasonic/Leica stuff. Don't even think seriously about comparing this to any Nikon Dn or Dnnn series.

You can make great images with a $50 camera if you're any good, but clearly these threads aren't about photographic merit. If you're going to compare hardware you're barking up the wrong tree. Seriously. Stop comparing consumer (low-end) products to pro-level gear.

--
Save pixels, please trim your follow-ups and don't quote attached images.