S5 vs 1DsIII

All this testing and comparing is fine, but my S5 cost me £800 and
the 1Ds Mk3 will cost me £5500.

I'm sure if budget was not an issue for most of us (which I am sure
it is) then we would all be using D3's and 1Ds'. The comparison
between the D300 and 5D are fair enough because they are a camera in
a similar bracket. Comparing the S5 to the 1Ds is surely like
comparing a Ford to a Ferrari. I can afford a Ford and it will do a
great job, but if I had the money I would buy a Ferrari!
Just don't see the S5 as and ordinary Ford, nor do I see the 1dsmk3 as a Ferrari!

The test is valid imo just wish it was more comprehensive than basic sharpness. I preferred the S5 to the 1dsmk2 in the past and am personally curious about the 1dsmk3 since I've nixed the D3. Its not that difficult to add an adaptor to a Canon body and use my favorite f mounts with it.
--
david
http://www.pbase.com/ddk
 
That probably would make sense. Another trick, though perhaps confusing, would be to replace the JPEG used for the original post.

That is, since the original post contains a link to a JPEG somewhere in web-space, you could just overwrite that JPEG and future viewers would see the corrected image.

Then it would just be the text that was confusing...

--
Matt Fahrner
http://www.boinkphoto.com
 
.....that is why these kind of tests are best left to people who do
it for a living....especially if you are not going to get it right
first time. Data is data...but please get your data right before
posting.
I don't think there's a degree called Bachelor of Camera Testing Science... everyone learns through trial and error. Not even when NASA finds something it's final... Forgetting this is a big mistake.
Why? People can be put off by such results and might not come back
for a second visit to your thread to find out that the test was
flawed. This might mean nothing to you, but it could have some
serious consequences to those joe soaps who may have scarpered off
about their business with some serious mis-information on their hands.
The OP did the test in good intent and didn't command anyone to take his post as gospel. There are tons of websites out there doing flawed technical reviews of all sorts of things but no one does anything more than not go to their site anymore in the worst case. The OP took the time do this test and posted it for everyone to see. The reader should know that anything out there could be flawed.
But most of all what I found most dissapointing is not the test
itself. It was that you didn't even bat an eyelid or apologise for
your error which realisitically would cause some distress or doubt to
S5 owners.
There are professional lenses sold for thousands of dollars that sometimes don't perform correctly, right out of the box... do you hear Canon or Nikon apologising for these things that happen everyday?
I can only speak for myself but after reading your first post with
it's test crops...... it naturally casted some serious doubts
instantly about my S5's abilities and caused some concern to me (as
I'm sure it has to others). But thankfully, the error was spotted by
a vigilant member and rectified by you, or else I would have been
left to ponder some negatives vibes about my camera from you.
That's because you have no confidence in your talent and depend on your gear to compensate for it. And the moment your gear gets scrutinized, you take it personally.
MORE
importantly was that I CAME BACK to the thread to find out that the
S5 crops were flawed and was able to see the new "rectified" test
crops.
These things even happen in scientific journals... you should be attached to the photos you take... not to the gear you take them with.
I just hope that others who may have viewed your original
screwed up data have come back to see that too and haven't gone off
pondering about their camera in a negative way or may be
contemplating something daft like selling their S5.
So all your satisfaction comes from what other people think about your camera? Not from your shots? Thankfully, natural selection hasn't been too wrong...

GTW
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/genotypewriter
 
Hi Dennis,
Why did you nix the D3?
I had two reason for that, first and most important, I didn't like the Nikon look; again. I had a D2x before the Fuji S3 and still changed over back then even considering the relatively slow and inconvenient body of the S3, the S5 has taken care of that for me. The D3 is definitely better than the D2x in every way but to my eyes and in my hands it still has that Nikon look with little tonal depth & gradation. The colors could be tweaked but not the tones or maybe I couldn't get them to work for me in the week that I had the camera.

The 2nd thing is all the bells & whistles that one's paying for, I use MF lenses almost exclusively now and metering manually, so D3's speed is lost on me, but I sure miss its big bright finder though. It wasn't helping me get better picts.

I have a couple of Kodak bodies too, so the FF isn't as a big a deal at this time, neither is the resolution since the Kodaks have slightly more than the D3 and with better colors if/when I need it; I haven't used them much since I got the S5 either.

Your mileage might be different...

--
david
http://www.pbase.com/ddk
 
A buddy of mine got the D3 a month or so ago. I've played with it a bit. I thought the files were pretty manageable in post, but the head to head comparison I shot in a parking lot (read extremely unscientific) had the S5 looking nicer in OOC color.

In other words, yeah, the D3 still has that Nikon color. But wow is that finder nice.

I also don't need the speed, and frankly it's too big for my needs. I want a camera I can carry everyday and then work with it when needed. When Nikon puts the FF digital in the F6 or similar body, I'll be there. I don't have FF in digital, and I really miss it, but the S5 is keeping me very content for now.

I do think the AUTO ISO feature is pretty cool.

Thanks for the insight.
--
Dennis
http://dennislee.smugmug.com/gallery/2516942
 
A buddy of mine got the D3 a month or so ago. I've played with it a
bit. I thought the files were pretty manageable in post, but the
head to head comparison I shot in a parking lot (read extremely
unscientific) had the S5 looking nicer in OOC color.
In other words, yeah, the D3 still has that Nikon color. But wow is
that finder nice.

I also don't need the speed, and frankly it's too big for my needs.
I want a camera I can carry everyday and then work with it when
needed. When Nikon puts the FF digital in the F6 or similar body,
I'll be there. I don't have FF in digital, and I really miss it, but
the S5 is keeping me very content for now.
You can pick up a Kodak in pretty good condition for around $1500 or less these days, since the D3. I can lend you mine to play with the next time you're in the city.

--
david
http://www.pbase.com/ddk
 
I can only speak for myself but after reading your first post with> it's test crops...... it naturally casted some serious doubts> instantly about my S5's abilities and caused some concern to me (as> I'm sure it has to others).

I mean no offense by this either, but if you knew your equipment better you wouldn't be distressed by other peoples test results because your own opinion of your equipment would carry more weight than other's opinions.

I would have been> left to ponder some negatives vibes about my camera from you.

Again, do you own the S5 because it is the camera that gives you what you want in a camera, or do you own it because somebody told you that the S5 is the camera you should own?

and haven't gone off> pondering about their camera in a negative way or may be> contemplating something daft like selling their S5.> > -->

If a person even thinks about selling their multi-thousand dollar camera for no other reason than the fact that someone on the internet said it wasn't very good, then they would probably be better off with a point and shoot.

These things aren't status symbols, they are tools. Get to know your tools by using them and you will be far less concerned about other peoples opinions.


Peace,

Dana
 
I can only speak for myself but after reading your first post with>
it's test crops...... it naturally casted some serious doubts>
instantly about my S5's abilities and caused some concern to me (as>
I'm sure it has to others).
I mean no offense by this either,
but if you knew your equipment better you wouldn't be distressed by
other peoples test results because your own opinion of your equipment
would carry more weight than other's opinions.
I would have been>
left to ponder some negatives vibes about my camera from
you.
Again, do you own the S5 because it is the camera that
gives you what you want in a camera, or do you own it because
somebody told you that the S5 is the camera you should own?
and
haven't gone off> pondering about their camera in a negative way or
may be> contemplating something daft like selling their S5.> > -->
If a person even thinks about selling their multi-thousand
dollar camera for no other reason than the fact that someone on the
internet said it wasn't very good, then they would probably be better
off with a point and shoot.
These things aren't status
symbols, they are tools. Get to know your tools by using them and you
will be far less concerned about other peoples
opinions.
Peace,

Dana

Dana...... did you read my post in full? I know MY tool inside out. It is why I didn't rush out and sell my camera. It is why I didn't buy a MkIII either. And it is why that I knew that there was something wrong with the test and came back to find out that I was right.

But I can't stop human nature being what it is and in getting alarmed at seeing the huge differences that were posted at first hand despite knowing what my camera can do. Why?.............

You see,...... the problem was with the MkIII and not with the S5. I know what the S5 can do. So I was left to ponder like so many others as to was the MkIII THAT GOOD and so far better over the S5. What's not to understand?

--
*****************************************
Packy
 
I don't think there's a degree called Bachelor of Camera Testing
Science... everyone learns through trial and error. Not even when
NASA finds something it's final... Forgetting this is a big mistake.
Yes, we all make mistakes. But one of the must important things in any test or in taking any photograph for that matter is to see that you actually focussed the shot properly. Hardly NASA stuff or rocket science. If you can't see that on a 2.5 lcd zoomed in, then fair enough..... but not to see it on a 15 inch monitor or to check for this is a little lame IMO if you are presenting a test to the world in which they possibly might use the data to evaluate a cameras capabilities. Again no offence to all, but IMO if you are going to present a test to the forum, then why produce a totally screwed up one when it is not all that hard to do a correct one? It is a valid comment.
The OP did the test in good intent and didn't command anyone to take
his post as gospel.
It was a test. Why post the test if nobody can take the information posted as serious or true?
There are professional lenses sold for thousands of dollars that
sometimes don't perform correctly, right out of the box... do you
hear Canon or Nikon apologising for these things that happen everyday?
Again you make excuses for the OP's failing to spot that HE made the error in having the S5 shot out of focus. He re-tested and got it right with the SAME lens.
That's because you have no confidence in your talent and depend on
your gear to compensate for it. And the moment your gear gets
scrutinized, you take it personally.
Rubbish. I know what my gear can do, but I knew nothing of the performance of the MkIII. I was more alarmed as to the MKIII being that far ahead like others were too.

*****************************************
Packy
 
Again no offence to all, but IMO if you are going to
present a test to the forum, then why produce a totally screwed up
one when it is not all that hard to do a correct one? It is a valid
comment.
I didn't realise that the OP's "test" becomes canonical when it's posted on this forum. It's all funny really... you acted like you woke up in a dark room and thought you were blind for a while.
The OP did the test in good intent and didn't command anyone to take
his post as gospel.
It was a test. Why post the test if nobody can take the information
posted as serious or true?
I don't think you understand the word "intent". Also I've never seen anyone persistently defending themselves this much when everyone else knows you're wrong. You're really making a fool of yourself here with comments like "why post the test if nobody can take the info posted as serious or true?". Do you think if the OP knew it was wrong, they'd still post it at the expense of their credibility?
There are professional lenses sold for thousands of dollars that
sometimes don't perform correctly, right out of the box... do you
hear Canon or Nikon apologising for these things that happen everyday?
Again you make excuses for the OP's failing to spot that HE made the
error in having the S5 shot out of focus. He re-tested and got it
right with the SAME lens.
People make mistakes. He realised and corrected his error... that's great. And some (like the OP) realise their errrors sooner than others (like you).
That's because you have no confidence in your talent and depend on
your gear to compensate for it. And the moment your gear gets
scrutinized, you take it personally.
Rubbish. I know what my gear can do, but I knew nothing of the
performance of the MkIII. I was more alarmed as to the MKIII being
that far ahead like others were too.
So what if the Canon was that much better? Do you like photography just because you think you have a sharp camera? Attitudes like yours are a disgrace even to the little artistry that is left in photographers thesedays.

GTW
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/genotypewriter
 
Rubbish. I know what my gear can do, but I knew nothing of the
performance of the MkIII. I was more alarmed as to the MKIII being
that far ahead like others were too.
It certainly is that far ahead.

It is typical how agressively some people react (specially on the Fuji, Sigma and Oly forums) when someone compares their brand of preference with a high end Canon. In fact I easily believe the difference is as big as shown in the first example. The second example got the S5 sharper, but as the letters in the writing were clearly above the resolution limit of the 6MP Fuji both cameras rendered the letters clearly. You will start to see the difference when you shoot a scene with details at the resolution limits. The 5d is already much sharper than the S5 (I have both), and the 1ds3 is still another league.

The 1ds3 has more than 3 times as much photo sites as the S5, and almost double the resolution. Pixel density is about the same, I have sample images here that show how much detail the 1ds3 can really render. 1ds3 is certainly demanding in respect to the lens quality, but so is the S5: Only my very sharpest lenses can render a decent image with the Fuji. The 5d does better with average quality glass.

Of course it is a different class at almost 8k versus less than 2k for the S5, but it is unjust to compare resolution. Even a 8MP camera gives slightly sharper detail than the S5, don't even start with 21MP. There were comparisions between the 22MP MF backs and the 1ds3, the difference was almost undetectable except the slightly blurring effects of the AA filter in the Canon.

Bernie
 
So, you're saying you could easily believe the difference is as big as the erroneous shot and you've discounted the corrected shot?

I would reference your first sentence below.

Anthony
It is typical how agressively some people react (specially on the
Fuji, Sigma and Oly forums) when someone compares their brand of
preference with a high end Canon. In fact I easily believe the
difference is as big as shown in the first example. The second
example got the S5 sharper, but as the letters in the writing were
clearly above the resolution limit of the 6MP Fuji both cameras
rendered the letters clearly.
 
Thanks David, that's very generous. I might take you up on that one of these days. I've been watching eBay for S5's lately. I really need another body for work. They seems to be holding pretty steady between $1150 and $1250.

There's one listed that is supposedly a 'demo' -- no serial number??? whad'ya think of that?!

Are you down in the East Village? I was never a Mars Bar regular but I bounced in there on rare occasions. Over in that area I tended to spend more time at the 'International.' Know that one?

I lived at 8th and C for three or four years then moved down to Pitt St. (AVE. C below Houston) between Rivington and Delancy. Lived down there for about 5 years before I got married. Tried to hang onto the apartment, but eventually the sublet screwed it up.

Good times, really like that Tatoo shot. That says East Village all over... and was pretty much my philosophy when I lived down there...

--
Dennis
http://dennislee.smugmug.com/gallery/2516942
 
I don't think you understand the word "intent". Also I've never seen
anyone persistently defending themselves this much when everyone else
knows you're wrong.
So everyone know that i'm wrong, eh? Read the whole thread....bud. There was others who felt the same as me and had reservations about the testing as well. Maybe you are the one who got blinded in the darkroom so here you are:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1020&message=26430696
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1020&message=26430915
So what if the Canon was that much better? Do you like photography
just because you think you have a sharp camera? Attitudes like yours
are a disgrace even to the little artistry that is left in
photographers thesedays.
No, i'm not a disgrace. This is a technical forum to discuss cameras and equipment. The heading on the way if i'm not mistaken says " Fujifilm SLR Talk Forum...... Welcome to the Fujifilm SLR Talk Forum, the place to discuss Fujifilm SLR digital cameras"

If you want to have a chat about your so-called artistry of photography then you need to find another forum.

*****************************************
Packy
 
Bernie Ess wrote:

It is typical how agressively some people react (specially on the Fuji, Sigma and > Oly forums) when someone compares their brand of preference with a high end > Canon. In fact I easily believe the difference is as big as shown in the first > example. The second example got the S5 sharper, but as the letters in the writing > were clearly above the resolution limit of the 6MP Fuji both cameras rendered the > letters clearly. You will start to see the difference when you shoot a scene with > details at the resolution limits. The 5d is already much sharper than the S5 (I have > both), and the 1ds3 is still another league.
The 1ds3 has more than 3 times as much photo sites as the S5, and almost double

the resolution. Pixel density is about the same, I have sample images here that > show how much detail the 1ds3 can really render. 1ds3 is certainly demanding in > respect to the lens quality, but so is the S5: Only my very sharpest lenses can > render a decent image with the Fuji. The 5d does better with average quality glass.
Of course it is a different class at almost 8k versus less than 2k for the S5, but it is > unjust to compare resolution. Even a 8MP camera gives slightly sharper detail than > the S5, don't even start with 21MP. There were comparisions between the 22MP > MF backs and the 1ds3, the difference was almost undetectable except the slightly > blurring effects of the AA filter in the Canon.
I concur with Bernie

... especially his second sentence
In fact I easily believe the difference is as big as shown in the first example.
6 mega pixels is ..6 mega pixels

if you've ever used a MF back you'd know that 6mp's is like a point and shoot.

Sikp's new camera was evident with his post of the street person ... post that was lost. nice skin tones ..

I sure it's an awesome camera and you got some balls walking around with it .. altho you've been doing it for years so ..

--
Fotomat
 
I just hope that others who may have viewed your original
screwed up data have come back to see that too and haven't gone off
pondering about their camera in a negative way or may be
contemplating something daft like selling their S5.
Maybe give the rest of the readers a little more intellectual credit? If someone stumbles across his one post and makes a multi-thousand dollar decision right then and there, Skip would be last person to blame. :-)

--
Passing the torch of knowledge is a genetic responsibility.

http://photo.karywall.net/
 
i am sorry, i normally post this repsonse sooner.

because once again someone will find some silly reason to complain about it
but the real reason its not a valid test is......

Hello, my name is Indigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to DIE!

a little common sense here people.

--
I'm outa luck, outa love
Gotta photograph, picture of
Passion killer, you're too much
 
So, you're saying you could easily believe the difference is as big
as the erroneous shot and you've discounted the corrected shot?
I did not say I discounted the corrected shot, but I said that the letter size was above the resolution limit of both cameras it was rendered quite clear. A printed letter is not a complex structure, so the Fuji does relatively well, let's see the same for landscape or other fine details. Even at it's up- interpolated 12MP there is a lot of unsharpness in the finer detail, let alone 21MP.

Yesterday I tried to print a shot from my S5pro at A2 size, to be exact, I only printed a crop of the file on a A4 paper to see how the quality would be. Lens was Tamron 17-50, but to my standards it does not look good enough. With the 5d my A2 prints are not a problem really, I made several of them.

6MP res is sometimes more than enough, but if you have no choice, it is difficult.

Many of the traditional Fuji DSLR supporters of this forum have left because they finally cracked and bought other cameras (always with higher resolution): TO name a few, Dirk Vermeirre (D2x, now 5d), digislr (Nikon d300), photoforfun (D3), Zane Paxton (D2x), and many others I have forgotten.

One cannot overlook forever that Fuji is practicing technological standstill which is not a good idea in the digital age.

regards
bernie
 
"It is typical how agressively some people react (specially on the Fuji, Sigma and Oly forums) when someone compares their brand of preference with a high end Canon."

LOL, sauce for a goose.

Anthony
6 mega pixels is ..6 mega pixels

if you've ever used a MF back you'd know that 6mp's is like a point
and shoot.

Sikp's new camera was evident with his post of the street person ...
post that was lost. nice skin tones ..

I sure it's an awesome camera and you got some balls walking around
with it .. altho you've been doing it for years so ..

--
Fotomat
--
check out my blog at http://anthonyonphotography.blogspot.com
 

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