Geez Chris,
don't get those oil guys started making L Brackets. It'll just put more pressure on petroleum prices once those guys figure out the kind of dough they can make selling converted drilling rigs to D3 owners.
Larry
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Really Right Stuff - Really Expensive!!!
- Thread starter brick33308
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don't get those oil guys started making L Brackets. It'll just put more pressure on petroleum prices once those guys figure out the kind of dough they can make selling converted drilling rigs to D3 owners.
Larry
bikinchris
Forum Pro
I am not a machinist, but many of my customers are. I also have several friends who own high end machine lathes that they have in their garage or house additions. They think this discussion is funny. Lets hope that RRS or Kirk never make a car or helicopter!!! Try making a machine that requires thousands of pieces of precision machined parts. Your Chevy Imapala would cost about $500,000. The design and production of these pieces is not any more difficult than designing a bracket for your alternator. That alternator bracket sells for a lot less than a Kirk bracket:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?carcode=1385940&parttype=2416&a=FRc1385940k96426
Imagine if RRS made the carburetor for your lawnmower!
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Chris, Broussard, LA
Ray Ritchie
Veteran Member
Well, actually, if GM only sold a few thousand Impalas each year, they probably would cost $500,000 each.
I'm hopeful you'll convince your friends with the lathes in their garage to go into the business of designing and manufacturing custom plates and fixtures, and will look forward to seeing their dramatically cheaper, equal quality products when they're available ;-)
Ray
I'm hopeful you'll convince your friends with the lathes in their garage to go into the business of designing and manufacturing custom plates and fixtures, and will look forward to seeing their dramatically cheaper, equal quality products when they're available ;-)
Ray
rriveros
Senior Member
funny how so many people argue that if you don't agree with the price then they should just start their own company and do it for cheaper.
This is not an argument. It's just a mean-spirited attack upon somebody who doesn't agree with them.
I also think that $200 for a bent piece of metal is too much money. Now people are going to come back with the same old cliches: "start your own company then" "nobody is forcing you" etc...
This is not an argument. It's just a mean-spirited attack upon somebody who doesn't agree with them.
I also think that $200 for a bent piece of metal is too much money. Now people are going to come back with the same old cliches: "start your own company then" "nobody is forcing you" etc...
R
Rich Gibson
Guest
That was a very mean spirited bit of sarcasm. Do you have an engineering degree? Do you normally bludgeon someone with caustic insults and exageration to make a point? I'd appreciate an apology, thank you.
Rich Gibson
Rich Gibson
Ray Ritchie
Veteran Member
There was nothing at all "mean-spirited" in my reply - I respect Chris's right to disagree, but I feel free to respond in the same spirit as I read his post (e. g., the over-the-top statement about $500,000 Impalas).
The lack of competitors to Kirk and RRS is, in my view, prima facie evidence that those who argue how easy this all is are a little off the mark. You don't have to start your own company - just look around and ask why some else hasn't.
BTW, I would sincerely be interested in a third full-service competitor in this game, since as I indicated in my first post on this thread, it usually takes at least three competitors to get a real price war going. But since no such competitor has emerged up to now (after years of success by Kirk and RRS), I believe the vacuum is telling us something important, and I'm skeptical of hypothetical arguments about how cheap things "ought" to be.
Ray
You mean I can have genuine GM quality for my Nikon camera? Boy I can't wait.
By the way, it's a good thing you're not a machinist, that's a stamped part.
Larry
rriveros
Senior Member
The argument would be much more interesting if people would stop with the personal attacks.
And even if somebody is not playing nice, it should not make one "feel free to respond in the same spirit". This was a good thread that became very unpleasant to read.
And even if somebody is not playing nice, it should not make one "feel free to respond in the same spirit". This was a good thread that became very unpleasant to read.
Not at all. It's a very good argument. You and I should start applying this wise advice right away, and not just to L-plates.
For instance:
I will never even think that vegetables can be too expensive.
I start a business of growing and selling them > > first
Then and only then I may comment whether they're expensive or not.
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Thierry
bikinchris
Forum Pro
Actually ford sells only a few thousand of the GT every year and they are $150,000. You can't call that a low tech car either. I am not angry at anyone and I am interested in their arguement. there are a lot of niches that aren't being filled by companies. SOme of them are possibly very lucrative. i don't think that camera plates is the most lucrative of them, though.
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Chris, Broussard, LA
bikinchris
Forum Pro
Every threaded boss on that part is machined. ANd there is no reason why the camera plates can't be stamped out of aluminum. They are not holding much weight and nothing is rubbing or heating them.
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Chris, Broussard, LA
Yeah, nothing says quality like spotwelding.
You can stamp camera plates out of aluminum all day, you just can't sell them to me.
Larry
bikinchris
Forum Pro
The strongest hubs for bicycles are stamped out of aluminum. Cold forging is a process where a shaped billet is placed in a 500 ton press and the die makes the product in one movement. It actually makes the metal stonger by lining up the grain of the metal in the stongest way. it is also much cheaper for large runs of product. Milling a peice of aluminum is a poor process for anything that takes a lot of stress. Even high alloys of aluminum are poor in measured actual strength. Bike hubs that are milled have a habit of failing. Although as little stress as is put on these camera plates, milling is fine.
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Chris, Broussard, LA
Well, lets see that 500 ton press make an L bracket in one movement. And just exactly how much does a 500 ton press cost? Don't you think that cost might just passed along to the customer at some point?
Larry
Jim Trunck
Leading Member
You get what you pay for. RRS's quality is excellent. And, in the rare case you ever need support or repair, you will be in for a very pleasant surprise - that is excellent too. That level of quality and service comes with a price.
I own three BH's and numerous plates for lenses and bodies, and everyone has been perfect.
RSS is a great group of people and products.
JT
I own three BH's and numerous plates for lenses and bodies, and everyone has been perfect.
RSS is a great group of people and products.
JT
Cultured Vulture
Veteran Member
Those of us that believe that the RRS and Kirk products are worth the cost can go on buying them. We appreciate the quality and design of their plates, ballheads and other support equipment. We are willing to pay the price they charge. For those of you that disagree, no one is trying to force you to. Use whatever alternatives you find adequate and cost effective.
As for the Impala vs camera plate comparison. How about a comparison between an Impala and a $5K lens or for that matter a D3 or 1DsMkIII. Do they take as much engineering and advanced production techniques as a modern automobile. Change that Impala into a top of the range BMW. Is the BMW worth 4-5 times the price? It is if you want the BMW.
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Respond to rudeness with civility, it really annoys them.
Regards,
JR
As for the Impala vs camera plate comparison. How about a comparison between an Impala and a $5K lens or for that matter a D3 or 1DsMkIII. Do they take as much engineering and advanced production techniques as a modern automobile. Change that Impala into a top of the range BMW. Is the BMW worth 4-5 times the price? It is if you want the BMW.
--
Respond to rudeness with civility, it really annoys them.
Regards,
JR
There is not always an alternative. In particular for L-plates which does seem expensive in comparison to the rest of RRS product line (does it make sense that an L-plate cost half the cost of a ball head?)
That's irrelevant. Here is a relevant question: Would Chevy charge you for its Impala as much as what a BMW cost if there were no competition The answer may be yes..
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Thierry
Charles Modica
Active member
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