Film is not Dead

That the place chosen to show film work to the world is entirely digital.

Ultimately, whatever the arguments about the subtle differences between one media and another, there is nothing more powerful than being able to reach more people. That is done more quickly, more effectively and more easily with digital throughout the whole process.

Film will not die for a long time yet, but it will steadily become more of a niche.
 
That the place chosen to show film work to the world is entirely
digital.
Ultimately, whatever the arguments about the subtle differences
between one media and another, there is nothing more powerful than
being able to reach more people. That is done more quickly, more
effectively and more easily with digital throughout the whole process.
I am 18 months behind in processing my RAW files. I shoot a roll of film, drop it off and pick it up a day or 2 later developed and printed. And I can get 6MP scans of them on a CD for $2.50 if I want to put on a website. Sometimes time is money.
 
i've not seen digital images which replicate that "look" of the images on that japanese site. maybe it's a combination of the older glass, medium format, choices of film and shooting wide open?
That the place chosen to show film work to the world is entirely
digital.
Ultimately, whatever the arguments about the subtle differences
between one media and another, there is nothing more powerful than
being able to reach more people. That is done more quickly, more
effectively and more easily with digital throughout the whole process.
Film will not die for a long time yet, but it will steadily become
more of a niche.
 
Strange logic.

If you just drop off your film and happy with result that others did for you, why don't you just drop off your media card and pick up your picture and be happy with it? Not mcu difference if you go by that route and you will save a lot on film as well!!

On one hand, you work so diligently to turn out photos from raw files and on the other hand you just shot from a roll film camera ( a 35mm, I presume?) and enjoy photographs turn out by a lab with no crop, no nothing done to your negative? Anything changes in you or your technic so improved by being able to check your result and makes changes by doing digital that now you turn out technically perfect photos now?

If you tend to use the 6mp files to work on the photos, what gives? You still have to work with the files except now they are thousands of jpeg instead of raw and much less you can do to your photoe!! If it was jpeg that you want, why not set your whatever camera to just jpeg on the first hand? (Real man only use jpeg, that is what some said, you know)

In my good old days after processing my negatives, I have to work in the dark room dodging and burning for hours to turnout effects that I want. Boy, that was tedious work. There all so many of them old image that I want to improve, now I am scanning them and working on them with photoshop.

Films have their own virtures, especially medium format and above but speed of turning out result has never been their long suit. Could you kindly clarify.

A 6mp scan? What sort of raw file (or jpeg)are you talking about? Mine grow from those managable D1 raw to the Ds and D2H and now for the D200 and K10D, it just go downhill (or should I say uphill)? But who's complaining, I am getting more detail files and I have the headroom to crop when I want.

I have a computer breakdown a year ago, Since then I've been busy and only use jpeg most of the time so I can use the supporting computer to work them. I have at last got my new toy and now I have a year and a bit more of raw waiting( I did raw and jpeg in both the D200 and K10D) Wow looking at so serious work time. If it it dark room work, forget it. (Anybody interested in a fully loaded darkroom, and a good slide projector (with at least one spare bulb). But the pleasure of watching the finished photos make it all worthwhile.

Mind you not all raw files need wrok. I am not a pro. About one fifth, I just delete. Some cropping, some exposure adjustment. About 3/5 it is just batch time for sharpening. The rest well need working on some other issues to make them perfect mnn(for me, that is). It is fun to watch my memories turned into perfect image. I never took that work as tedious.

It is not just snapping the shutter, you know. If those files can just sit there, why took them on the first hand. Why not just go over guickly and weed out what you don't want. Batch the rest, then send the card to Costco, Walmart or what ever. Or you can just save the files and start watching slide shows. Or, heaven forbide, just delete them?
 
Strange logic.

If you just drop off your film and happy with result that others did
for you, why don't you just drop off your media card and pick up your
picture and be happy with it? Not mcu difference if you go by that
route and you will save a lot on film as well!!
That woud be shooting JPG and not making any adjustments. Camera labs make adjustments during developing. My film prints were day and night different when I switched from $4/roll to $10/roll developing.
On one hand, you work so diligently to turn out photos from raw files
and on the other hand you just shot from a roll film camera ( a 35mm,
I presume?) and enjoy photographs turn out by a lab with no crop, no
nothing done to your negative? Anything changes in you or your
technic so improved by being able to check your result and makes
changes by doing digital that now you turn out technically perfect
photos now?
my photolab does adjustments during developing, see above. The prints I get from film are as good or better than what I spend lots of time with processing RAW files. Colors are more accurate with film. I prefer not to crop an image aside from print ratios. I do more cropping with family shots, but I'm not overly concerned with them.
If you tend to use the 6mp files to work on the photos, what gives?
You still have to work with the files except now they are thousands
of jpeg instead of raw and much less you can do to your photoe!! If
it was jpeg that you want, why not set your whatever camera to just
jpeg on the first hand? (Real man only use jpeg, that is what some
said, you know)
I gave that as a point of reference in case someone asked about having to scan the negatives myself. I've only gotten a few rolls scanned during development and have so far only reprinted 4x6s, though there are some good ones that may be printed larger. I would scan the negatives at a higher dpi if I needed to print larger than 8x10.
A 6mp scan? What sort of raw file (or jpeg)are you talking about?
Mine grow from those managable D1 raw to the Ds and D2H and now for
see response above. It is just an option during film development.
It is not just snapping the shutter, you know. If those files can
just sit there, why took them on the first hand. Why not just go over
guickly and weed out what you don't want. Batch the rest, then send
the card to Costco, Walmart or what ever. Or you can just save the
files and start watching slide shows. Or, heaven forbide, just delete
them?
I do delete bad shots, but I still have that many undone. JPG isn't an option for a high quality good looking image. Too often the levels have to be balance. There might be too few colors in the image and overall it is too bright as-shot or the image came out a little dark. The same adjustments made in RAW to help exposure are done with film developing.

And you can't batch process RAW files without making corrections for each individual RAW file. If you batch process a bunch of RAWs you're basically making as-shot JPGs!
 
I was reading that now about 90% of "pros" shoot dig. There was not any more data. That sounds about right to me. The number is higher for "35 mm" type, the cost benafits are a lot less if you shoot a "little" 4 x 5.

There are still folks who shoot film, a lot of "Kids who thank they are artists" will tell you for hours all about how you must shoot film if you are really an artist. I like to hear them. . . .

Pros work to make money, if they can make more money with dig. then they will. and they do.

I just got back from 3 weeks in SE Asia. I took 7,500 photos got home and then deleted about 5,000. Do the math, 7,500 shoots costed me "Zero" to shoot dig. (I had the 8 GBit CF, and a small dig. storage unit). To shoot this with film, would have been over 250 rolls, that is a major case just to carry it, and the cost would have been more than the full trip.

I did that in 1975 with 250 rolls chrome for a 7 week Canoe trip, film, pick up and drop off and getting the money to process it were all major problems. Not any more.

If you like film, great, but I when dig. in 2000, and have only shoot about 10 rolls of film from that time. (The ten rolls where in my 500 CM)

Mike

--
If you have low standards, you can take a look:
http://michaeljberman.zenfolio.com
 
Strange logic.

If you just drop off your film and happy with result that others did
for you, why don't you just drop off your media card and pick up your
picture and be happy with it? Not mcu difference if you go by that
route and you will save a lot on film as well!!
That woud be shooting JPG and not making any adjustments. Camera
labs make adjustments during developing. My film prints were day and
night different when I switched from $4/roll to $10/roll developing.
On one hand, you work so diligently to turn out photos from raw files
and on the other hand you just shot from a roll film camera ( a 35mm,
I presume?) and enjoy photographs turn out by a lab with no crop, no
nothing done to your negative? Anything changes in you or your
technic so improved by being able to check your result and makes
changes by doing digital that now you turn out technically perfect
photos now?
my photolab does adjustments during developing, see above. The
prints I get from film are as good or better than what I spend lots
of time with processing RAW files. Colors are more accurate with
film. I prefer not to crop an image aside from print ratios. I do
more cropping with family shots, but I'm not overly concerned with
them.
If you tend to use the 6mp files to work on the photos, what gives?
You still have to work with the files except now they are thousands
of jpeg instead of raw and much less you can do to your photoe!! If
it was jpeg that you want, why not set your whatever camera to just
jpeg on the first hand? (Real man only use jpeg, that is what some
said, you know)
I gave that as a point of reference in case someone asked about
having to scan the negatives myself. I've only gotten a few rolls
scanned during development and have so far only reprinted 4x6s,
though there are some good ones that may be printed larger. I would
scan the negatives at a higher dpi if I needed to print larger than
8x10.
A 6mp scan? What sort of raw file (or jpeg)are you talking about?
Mine grow from those managable D1 raw to the Ds and D2H and now for
see response above. It is just an option during film development.
It is not just snapping the shutter, you know. If those files can
just sit there, why took them on the first hand. Why not just go over
guickly and weed out what you don't want. Batch the rest, then send
the card to Costco, Walmart or what ever. Or you can just save the
files and start watching slide shows. Or, heaven forbide, just delete
them?
I do delete bad shots, but I still have that many undone. JPG isn't
an option for a high quality good looking image. Too often the
levels have to be balance. There might be too few colors in the
image and overall it is too bright as-shot or the image came out a
little dark. The same adjustments made in RAW to help exposure are
done with film developing.
And you can't batch process RAW files without making corrections for
each individual RAW file. If you batch process a bunch of RAWs
you're basically making as-shot JPGs
Well, interesting answer and it is nice to see you have a good lab. I can see that you are a special photogarpher since your problem is mostly only on some exposure adjustment and your compositon is always right on, need no cropping. Good for you. And BTW if that is your only problem, how difficult is it to use a good technic and an exposure meter to improve on that tiny bug.

For perfect shoots, what is the difference between using digital or film ,if nothing need to be improve upon! Some insist that there is always a differnce between a good fuji V and a down low jpeg. The film feel, the look of good German Glass, the tranparence (not the media, the feel)That kind of things that I can not quantify. I never would comment on that. But the only thing that silent me is always a good blowup of a landscape,from sheet film.

For most of my photog friends and me, getting good exposure in most cases have not been a problem. Problem is mostly with White balance, how to bring out the best color or a little cropping. We have experience with film, with good cameras.and most are still shooting film sometime I still owns a hassy(ideal most of the time) a LX ,a FM , and a F3. Digital or film is just the media we choose.

And are you FOR sure that you cannot batch without making changes on individual files-- even when none needed except for sharpening? Are you sure

Sure we work differently, sorry to have intrude! My bad! Will leave.
 
http://puu.luck.jp/GALLERY/newpage2.htm

Newest additions are at the top.

Something about those Japanese photographers and their old film
cameras...
Yes they took photographs, one or two interesting, the rest mediocre. And before you start, film has nothing to do with quality. Plenty of lousy shots both digital and film. However this is a "digital" site so why not wave your dying film banner somewhere else?

--
Kind Regards
Dennis P O'Neil APSNZ
'War does not determine who is right, only who is left'
 
I didn't see a single image in that gallery with a look that I couldn't easily duplicate with my D300, Photoshop, and a few plug-ins designed to create the look and grain of specific film types. However, to be fair, that's because I am viewing them on a monitor. If I were standing in front of the prints, then, no contest, film is better -- but only for the time being. While not yet obsolete in the 35mm format range because it can produce superior prints, film won't enjoy that advantage for long.
 
i've not seen digital images which replicate that "look" of the
images on that japanese site. maybe it's a combination of the older
glass, medium format, choices of film and shooting wide open?
could be. I was able to handle a pentax k10d about a month ago with an old manual focusing pentax lens (135mm). It had a funny way of rendering the image. It was soft, sort of dreamy. Not soft OOF, but as if it was a fantasy in your head. And that lens had severe purple fringing/CA! Terrible! But in the right conditions, it was just fine.

As for the film and the aperture, I can't say. But for sure, the old glass imbue some character trademark of their own with the pictures.
That the place chosen to show film work to the world is entirely
digital.
Ultimately, whatever the arguments about the subtle differences
between one media and another, there is nothing more powerful than
being able to reach more people. That is done more quickly, more
effectively and more easily with digital throughout the whole process.
Film will not die for a long time yet, but it will steadily become
more of a niche.
--
--------------------
  • Caterpillar
'Always in the process of changing, growing, and transforming.'
 
http://puu.luck.jp/GALLERY/newpage2.htm

Newest additions are at the top.

Something about those Japanese photographers and their old film
cameras...
That's why there are Holga Communities (plastic fantastic), Rolleiflex TLR clubs, sites etc. They all have a special type of creating an image. I for myself use two old Rolleiflex TLR, besides my digital camera. It's fun.
Have a look and enjoy, some very good 6x6 images:
http://www.altphotos.com/Gallery.aspx?browseby=format&format=120/220mm%206x6cm
 
caterpillar wrote:
i've not seen digital images which replicate that "look" of the
images on that japanese site. maybe it's a combination of the older
glass, medium format, choices of film and shooting wide open?
could be. I was able to handle a pentax k10d about a month ago with
an old manual focusing pentax lens (135mm). It had a funny way of
rendering the image. It was soft, sort of dreamy. Not soft OOF, but
as if it was a fantasy in your head. And that lens had severe purple
fringing/CA! Terrible! But in the right conditions, it was just fine.

As for the film and the aperture, I can't say. But for sure, the old
glass imbue some character trademark of their own with the pictures.
I think that the lenses, for sure, are a big part of the look; but I also think the film and the manner in which it is scanned play a large part as well, especially in the way that the light of the scanner plays through the film's base and grain pattern.

It's one of the reasons I don't fully get the "film versus digital" debates, at least as it pertains to issues of image quality. The fact of the matter is that they're different approaches to the same end result -- image making. Computers and scanning don't make film just another digital medium, they add to the variety of things that can now be done with film. Acrylic paint didn't mean the death of oil; colour film didn't mean the end of black and white.

Ye Customer
(Alex)
 
Well, interesting answer and it is nice to see you have a good lab. I
can see that you are a special photogarpher since your problem is
mostly only on some exposure adjustment and your compositon is always
right on, need no cropping. Good for you. And BTW if that is your
only problem, how difficult is it to use a good technic and an
exposure meter to improve on that tiny bug.

For perfect shoots, what is the difference between using digital or
film ,if nothing need to be improve upon! Some insist that there is
always a differnce between a good fuji V and a down low jpeg. The
film feel, the look of good German Glass, the tranparence (not the
media, the feel)That kind of things that I can not quantify. I never
would comment on that. But the only thing that silent me is always a
good blowup of a landscape,from sheet film.
For me the difference between digital and film is you can make digital look however you want: warm, low contrast, high contrast, high saturation, low saturation, lighten the shadows a lot, etc. Essentially for me there are too many options with digital. Film just gets it right and it's done. And I agree it is difficult to get accurate colors to how the scene looked with digital compared to film, i.e. white balance.
For most of my photog friends and me, getting good exposure in most
cases have not been a problem. Problem is mostly with White balance,
how to bring out the best color or a little cropping.
And are you FOR sure that you cannot batch without making changes on
individual files-- even when none needed except for sharpening? Are
you sure
Yes with the software I have. DPP does batch processing but only allows resizing images. PSE does batch processing but only with crude auto adjustments (auto levels, auto color, auto contrast, auto sharpen - all that rarely do an image its best).

What's the point of batch processing files if you are making adjustments to individual images? Plus I do not like the level adjustment or the other adjustment settings in DPP. The colors on the graph are too hard to see the edges when I make adjustments. I like the adjustment controls in ACR, but with PSE I have no level adjustment - it's basically a stripped down ACR. I may consider Lightroom at some time in the future, but I have other photographic purchases I would make before that, e.g. 5D grip, better tripod, GND filters and holder.
 
I just got back from 3 weeks in SE Asia. I took 7,500 photos got
home and then deleted about 5,000. Do the math, 7,500 shoots costed
me "Zero" to shoot dig. (I had the 8 GBit CF, and a small dig.
storage unit). To shoot this with film, would have been over 250
rolls, that is a major case just to carry it, and the cost would have
been more than the full trip.
I hear this agrument often. It's ok if you're shooting fast action and sports. But if you're deleting 66% of your shots, why are you taking so many? When you delete images that you don't want you should be learning what is a good photograph to you and you should be less likely to take pictures that you'd likely delete at home. I have learned this an my shot taking count has dramatically gone down - even with digital.

And can you really have 2500 keepers from a vacation? When are you going to have time to look through so many images from one vacation let alone put them in a printed photo album - that would be about 6 albums worth! And do you really need so many to tell the story of your vacation? I know if was 3 weeks, but 2500 is quite a lot of keepers.
 
Film, for me, is basically dead, too!

I'm not saying that film is dead . . . it just is for me!

I have switched 100% digital and no longer have the desire to shoot any more film, regardless of which is better.

I still have all of my film cameras and may bust them out in the future . . . who knows?

As for the RAW vs. jpeg debate . . . I shoot jpegs as I strive to get the shot right in the camera so I don't have to spend hours combing through a hard drive full of RAW files so that I can try and make them look like exactly what I saw.

And so far have been pretty successful . . . and those jpegs blow up just fine!

But that is just me . . .

And, as for labs turning out exactly what you saw on your film?

Think again . . . photo labs generally make corrections to film negatives, and often times they are not what the photographer was thinking or seeing.

At least with digital prints, they are normally printed exactly how they are on the card/cd.

--
J. D.
Colorful Colorado

Straight out of camera jpeg:



Remember . . . always keep the box and everything that came in it!
 
fine, but again, how do you explain "the look" of the images i posted at the top? i've not seen digital images that have "it".
I think that the lenses, for sure, are a big part of the look; but I
also think the film and the manner in which it is scanned play a
large part as well, especially in the way that the light of the
scanner plays through the film's base and grain pattern.

It's one of the reasons I don't fully get the "film versus digital"
debates, at least as it pertains to issues of image quality. The
fact of the matter is that they're different approaches to the same
end result -- image making. Computers and scanning don't make film
just another digital medium, they add to the variety of things that
can now be done with film. Acrylic paint didn't mean the death of
oil; colour film didn't mean the end of black and white.

Ye Customer
(Alex)
 

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