A570 miserable batt life

...I don't think that's really a debate here. Certainly, the 2 battery models will have worse battery life and longer flash recycle times than 4 battery models. The 2 battery models still have their place though, as smaller, lighter and less expensive cameras that fill needs.

--
Andy
FCAS Member #120
http://lightscapeimaging.com

my sister gets the same intermitten results from rayovak hybrid rechargeables and with regular AA alkalines. She had the battery problem instantly with the rayovac rechareables and she thought using regular AA alkalines fixed it but that only lasted a little while. Now she has the problem with regular AA alkalines. Sometimes the battery level shows empty and other times it shows good level - without even changing the batteries.

...at this point, I'm confident that the slight bend or hump I put in the contacts on the door have solved the problem. I have opened and closed the door and pulled the batteries out, reinstalled the same ones several times and it still works.

--
Andy
FCAS Member #120
http://lightscapeimaging.com

zzzzzzzzzzz said:

True, but monitoring how long the batts hold a specific charge does
give some indication. In addition, I know the low batt light is
going to start flashing when the voltage starts to fluctuate around
2.3v.

Click to expand...

Yes, but that would be under load (while in the camera drawing current). You can take an absolutely dead but good NiMH battery out of the camera, let it sit at room temperature for an hour and it will measure close to 1.2 volts per cell open circuit (no current load).

The fact is that open-circuit voltage is NOT a measure of charge remaining.

--mamallama

AJohn said:

...at this point, I'm confident that the slight bend or hump I put in
the contacts on the door have solved the problem. I have opened and
closed the door and pulled the batteries out, reinstalled the same
ones several times and it still works.

Click to expand...

Andy:

Yours is not the first Canon AA-camera I've heard of with weak battery contacts. I noticed how simple the contacts were in my old A80 compared to the double spring, wiping contacts on my Sony H5.

I'm writing to comment on the cases I've been reading that some type batteries work and some don't. The Industry Standard AA specification contains the physical dimensions and tolerances of the case size:

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/nh15-2500.pdf

Note that the length can differ by 0.051 inches and I suspect the batteries that give problems in weak-contact cases are on the short side of tolerance. And those that don't are on the long side.

In the old days when the household had but one D-cell flashlight we solved the weak spring problem by putting a penny between the cells.

More recently, in my inexpensive electronics with weak contacts and short batteries I used to solder a tab on the batteries to in-effect lengthen them. If you do that now, I suggest you use RoHS-approved lead-free solder.

--mamallama

I tried 3,, 570is cams all had the battery problem....one i bought & took home would not fire up with a fully charged set of 2700, powerx batteries,,took back to store they had 2 more in stock,,tried them in store,,,got 28 pics on set of new batt,,other cam got 53,,,,Canon has a problem with that cam,,,too bad nice little cam,,,,,Ron

True, but I'd probably go with a different model or manufacturer if this turns out to be a consistent problem with this particular model. I am not going to send a brand new cam back to Canon.

RedFox88 said:

zzzzzzzzzzz said:

RedFox88 said:

Call Canon and have them fix the camera. 1-800-OK-Canon. Now is
likely a slow time of year for picture taking, i.e. after the
holidays, so get it in soon!!

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. I'd exchange it in the store before doing that.

Click to expand...

that is bad or if it's a problem with cameras bought throughout the
a570's life, another a570 from the same store might very well exhibit
the same battery contact problem.

Click to expand...

I am seeing the voltage while taking pictures, while viewing on the lcd, while focusing, etc...

BTW - I just took 30 more pictures (no flash this time) and its still indicating a good charge. So far I have over 60 pics on this charge (half flash) and a lot of LCD viewing.

Volts are still 2.5 when viewing, focusing, image stablization, etc...

mamallama said:

Yes, but that would be under load (while in the camera drawing
current). You can take an absolutely dead but good NiMH battery out
of the camera, let it sit at room temperature for an hour and it will
measure close to 1.2 volts per cell open circuit (no current load).

The fact is that open-circuit voltage is NOT a measure of charge
remaining.

Click to expand...

zzzzzzzzzzz said:

mamallama said:

Incidentally, an open-circuit voltage reading of AA good
rechargeables gives no indication of capacity remaining.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

zzzzzzzzzzz said:

True, but monitoring how long the batts hold a specific charge does
give some indication. In addition, I know the low batt light is
going to start flashing when the voltage starts to fluctuate around 2.3v.

Click to expand...

It's true that the camera will shut off when a certain voltage is reached, but the voltage that the batteries provide will be lower when they're in the camera and under load. Once you take them out of the camera and connect a voltmeter they'll give you a higher reading, so it doesn't really tell you much about whether they've still got enough charge to power the camera.

As I said earlier in this thread, I am monitoring them IN THE CAMERA with CHDK.

I am not checking them outside the camera with a voltmeter.

Sean Nelson said:

It's true that the camera will shut off when a certain voltage is
reached, but the voltage that the batteries provide will be lower
when they're in the camera and under load. Once you take them out
of the camera and connect a voltmeter they'll give you a higher
reading, so it doesn't really tell you much about whether they've
still got enough charge to power the camera.

Click to expand...

zzzzzzzzzzz said:

I am seeing the voltage while taking pictures, while viewing on the
lcd, while focusing, etc...

BTW - I just took 30 more pictures (no flash this time) and its still
indicating a good charge. So far I have over 60 pics on this charge
(half flash) and a lot of LCD viewing.

Volts are still 2.5 when viewing, focusing, image stablization, etc...

Click to expand...

Good that you have the facility with CDHK to monitor in-camera and operating voltages. I'm curious what were the readings you were getting with your battery sets that gave you miserable battery life? Initial after a charge and at cutoff?

--mamallama

...there was a little part of me that thought about battery length early on, but I dismissed it and totally forgot about it. Thanks for this info. I agree, the door contacts seem very weak. The ones at the bottom of the compartement seem OK. That's good though, because the ones on the door are easy to deal with and easy to replace if they get messed up...that is of course, if they are available.

--
Andy
FCAS Member #120
http://lightscapeimaging.com

zzzzzzzzzzz said:

As I said earlier in this thread, I am monitoring them IN THE
CAMERA with CHDK.

Click to expand...

My bad - I missed the 2nd page of the thread when I posted it...

mamallama said:

Good that you have the facility with CDHK to monitor in-camera and
operating voltages. I'm curious what were the readings you were
getting with your battery sets that gave you miserable battery life?
Initial after a charge and at cutoff?

Click to expand...

My 2700 and 2500 Nimh start out at about 2.6V and after about 5 flash pictures they are down to 2.5V. They drop to 2.4V after about 20 flash pics at which point the low batt indicator comes on. I'll get maybe another 15 flash pics before it drops below 2.3V, then I start to get the change battery error. The performance is worse if I let the cam sit overnight.

The eneloops started out at 2.7V and they seem to hold their charge fairly long. So far I've taken about 105 pictures with the eneloops (half with flash). CHDK is showing 2.43V with the camera on and the low battery indicator just came on briefly. The indicator went away when I turned the cam off and left it off for a few minutes. I'm guessing I'll be able to get another 50 pics before the batteries are exhausted. The eneloops seem to lose about .1V every 50 pics (half with flash).

All voltages reading taken with the camera on using CHDK.

zzzzzzzzzzz said:

My 2700 and 2500 Nimh start out at about 2.6V and after about 5 flash
pictures they are down to 2.5V. They drop to 2.4V after about 20
flash pics at which point the low batt indicator comes on. I'll get
maybe another 15 flash pics before it drops below 2.3V, then I start
to get the change battery error. The performance is worse if I let
the cam sit overnight.

Click to expand...

It sure sounds to me like those batteries are exhausted. How long have you had them and how many charge cycles have they gone through? It wouldn't suprise me if this is the result of using one of those fast chargers (ie, one of the "15 minute" chargers).

You might try reconditioning the batteries if you've got a charger that can do this. But I suspect those batteries are goners.

As I said earlier I am using a Maha C204 charger, which is not a fast charger. It does have a recondition function. Some of my nimh batts are about a year old, one set of 4 (Kodak 2500) is brand new. I already tried to recondition all of them and they all work fine in my old Nikon Coolpix 800.

I just fired off another 50 pics on Wall ST NYC, which brings my total pic count up to 150 (at least 1/3 with flash). My batt voltage barely moved today and its hanging at about 2.45V. My low battery indication is not on yet. I will try to kill these batts off tonight with flash.

I'm guessing that I will end up with about 200 pics on these eneloops, which IMO is acceptable. I'll probably get more after a few charge cycles.

Sean Nelson said:

zzzzzzzzzzz said:

My 2700 and 2500 Nimh start out at about 2.6V and after about 5 flash
pictures they are down to 2.5V. They drop to 2.4V after about 20
flash pics at which point the low batt indicator comes on. I'll get
maybe another 15 flash pics before it drops below 2.3V, then I start
to get the change battery error. The performance is worse if I let
the cam sit overnight.

Click to expand...

It sure sounds to me like those batteries are exhausted. How long
have you had them and how many charge cycles have they gone through?
It wouldn't suprise me if this is the result of using one of those
fast chargers (ie, one of the "15 minute" chargers).

You might try reconditioning the batteries if you've got a charger
that can do this. But I suspect those batteries are goners.

Click to expand...

zzzzzzzzzzz said:

As I said earlier I am using a Maha C204 charger, which is not a fast
charger. It does have a recondition function. Some of my nimh batts
are about a year old, one set of 4 (Kodak 2500) is brand new. I
already tried to recondition all of them and they all work fine in my
old Nikon Coolpix 800.

Click to expand...

Thanks for responding with the detailed in-camera voltage readings. To me they tell a lot: First, it's not bad terminal contacts as the voltages start out sufficiently high. Definitely your regular NiMHs are different from your eneloops. But if you look at the technical data sheets for both, well-conditioned regular NiMHs should not discharge that differently from eneloops if freshly charged. To me that means one or more or you regular NiMH cells is not comditioned. I know you conditioned them in your C-204W, but let me tell you of my experience.

I have both the C-204W and the LaCrosse BC-900. Even after I conditioned some regular NiMHs in my C-204W and check the capacity on the BC-900 I've found the measured capacity to be much lower than rated. I would then refresh (The LaCrosse word for multiple conditioning cycles) them on the BC-900. This process goes through the charge-discharge cycle up to 20 times, measuring the capacity on each discharge. When there is only a small capacity change between consecutive cycles, it stops and display the final capacity. On some of my trials it takes up to 3-4 days to complete.

That said, you ask why would the service on the CoolPix 800 be good. I think because the cutoff voltage on the Canon is higher than on the Nikon. I think 2.4 volts is a bit high, given that sharp knee break in the discharge curve is usually below 1.2 volts/cell.

--mamallama

I'm now up to 200 pics on a single charge and its still going. At least 1/3 of the pictures were taken with flash and I am doing a fair amount of LCD viewing.

zzzzzzzzzzz said:

I'm now up to 200 pics on a single charge and its still going. At
least 1/3 of the pictures were taken with flash and I am doing a fair
amount of LCD viewing.

Click to expand...

What's your in-camera voltage reading? Is it still above water (2.4 volts)??

--mamallama

zzzzzzzzzzz said:

I'm now up to 200 pics on a single charge and its still going. At
least 1/3 of the pictures were taken with flash and I am doing a fair
amount of LCD viewing.

Click to expand...

I'm interested in your updates. Thanks.