MacBook Pro colorsetting with D300? Important!! ;-)

sRGB and AdobeRGB versions of the same image. I incorrectly constructed the 'test'. It was intended to illustrate the problems with browsers which are not color managed. That is not the case in question.

My apologies.

Bob Peters

Hi Bob,

The pictures does look the same on my screen. ;-)

I have a freind that has a proff. calibrationsystem. So in the near future I will try to calibrate both my MBP, a 17" and a !5"
But for now I realy like the colors on my MBP 17" with the "Nikon colorspaces".

I will let you know the result of the calibration. ;-)

Robert Peters said:

sRGB and AdobeRGB versions of the same image. I incorrectly
constructed the 'test'. It was intended to illustrate the problems
with browsers which are not color managed. That is not the case in
question.

My apologies.

Bob Peters

Click to expand...

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---------------------
Cheers....
Steffen Moller Madsen
Denmark
NikonD80 / NikonD300 / Nikkor18-200VR / Sigma 10-20 / SB400

I've been reading your comments in this thread and I had no idea different browsers displayed images differently. I pulled your images up side by side with Firefox & Safari and I couldn't believe it. Firefox looks all washed out!

I have a 17 MBP and have never really paid much attention to the calibration. But with Safari I can tell a difference in your two images....does this mean my monitor is at least in the ballpark?

--
-devin
http://thedwp.zenfolio.com/

Are we talking about your display profile, then you should NOT use Adobe RGB, that space is intended for the image itself.

you should use an display profile, preferrable an custom made on with an callibrator. OR you could use the sRGB profile.

Eizo has some displays that can handle the whole AdobeRGB colorspace, but those do cost money (2000-2400 dollars i think).

--
Rickard Hansson
Sweden

I too have a 17" MBP and running Safari. I have also vainly been trying to follow this thread, so please don't give up yet Bob.

Those two pics you posted are different on my monitor. (In the upper one the skin tones are redder. In the lower pic the skin tones shift green.) Short of getting a professional calibration device what should I be doing? I'm afraid I got lost.

Thank you,
John
--
jlm

thedwp said:

[snip]
calibration. But with Safari I can tell a difference in your two
images

Click to expand...

They should look the same in Safari.

thedwp said:

....does this mean my monitor is at least in the ballpark?

Click to expand...

I have no idea.

I am amazed that people who want complete color management do not know to calibrate their monitors. No two monitors are alike and all monitors/systems will change over time. Get the Eye-one or something similar and custom calibrate. Also, do not use AdobeRGB as a monitor profile...it is not meant for that.

Mario said:

is to profile your screen. The default color profiles that come with
Mac are way too bright. Using Adobe RGB 1998 is better, but profiling
and using 1.8 gamma gives me perfect color.

--
Mario

Click to expand...

Robert Peters said:

However, your best course of action is to get a
hardware profiling device

Click to expand...

yes

Robert Peters said:

and calibrate to 6500K and a gamma of 2.2.

Click to expand...

no. no. no.

Lstar calibration is much better for LCD monitors then constant gamma. native color temperature calibration is much better then calibrating to particular color temperature, especially on Mac. important is also the monitor brightness setting, it should be according to ISO standard; as well as the level of the ambient light and the light used to view prints.

using Lstar calibration one can benefit from using Lstar working spaces like ECI RGB Lstar or any other modified to have Lstar curve instead of constant gamma curve/table (I use BetaRGB modified to Lstar).

it is safer not to mix icc2 and icc4 profiles in one workflow.

--
Julia

you need to read some on color management to get basic understanding of the subject. better to get a book.

the setting I use is a custom monitor profile created with basICColor software and hardware calibrator (X-Rite/Monaco).

--
Julia

OK. But I have to ask what you mean by "Lstar calibration"?

I use an I1 Display to set the brightness to about 110 cd/m2 and generate the profile with the same device. Given that I have that hardware what do you suggest?

Please elaborate.

Bob Peters

Julia Borg said:

Julia Borg said:

However, your best course of action is to get a
hardware profiling device

Click to expand...

yes

Julia Borg said:

and calibrate to 6500K and a gamma of 2.2.

Click to expand...

no. no. no.

Lstar calibration is much better for LCD monitors then constant
gamma. native color temperature calibration is much better then
calibrating to particular color temperature, especially on Mac.
important is also the monitor brightness setting, it should be
according to ISO standard; as well as the level of the ambient light
and the light used to view prints.

using Lstar calibration one can benefit from using Lstar working
spaces like ECI RGB Lstar or any other modified to have Lstar curve
instead of constant gamma curve/table (I use BetaRGB modified to
Lstar).

it is safer not to mix icc2 and icc4 profiles in one workflow.

--
Julia

Click to expand...

Robert Peters said:

OK. But I have to ask what you mean by "Lstar calibration"?

Click to expand...

Lstar, L-star, L-Star, or L* -- calibrating a monitor in the way that the brightness scale is perceptually uniform (that is, doubling rgb values causes doubling of the brightness). Lstar curve s derived directly from the formulas yo can see here:
http://www.brucelindbloom.com/index.html?Eqn_XYZ_to_Lab.html

(you can see the formula in ColorSync utility using any L* ICC v.4 profile - this contains both ICC v.2 and v.4 http://www.eci.org/eci/downloads/ECI-en/icc_profiles_from_eci/eciRGBv20.zip )

here is a plot of gamma =2.2 (red) against L*



Here are some words from satisfied users that switched to Lstar

...The most relevant improvement is that luminance is now encoded in an equidistant way – 'conversion losses' between data and the human eye are thus a matter of the past: The gamma of 1.8 has been replaced by an L* characterization as used in the theoretically ideal CIELAB color space. This improved encoding efficiency brings with it substantial advantages in the shadows, as the risk of posterization effects – especially while retouching – is significantly reduced. Errors caused by colour space conversions – e.g. banding or reversal – are minimized as much as currently technically feasible.

SO accepts eciRGBv2 for standardization as ISO 22028-4

The ISO technical committee 42 (Photography) working group 18 (digital still picture imaging) has accepted by a majority of the participating countries to standardize eciRGBv2 as a technical specification under the ISO 22028 series of color encodings. ECI will soon publish a document that serves as the basis for the standard and contains all necessary details to utilize eciRGBv2 which is available as ICC Profile in the download section of this website.[2007-11-07]

to reiterate, it is best to use monitor L* profile together with a working space profile also based on L*. it is alo easy to see the advantage that using L* brightness errors are minimised while converting between Lab, monitor and working space profiles.

for the moment, L* ICC4 BetaRGB - based worflow is the best I could find. you won't believe your shadows

--
Julia

Robert Peters said:

I use an I1 Display to set the brightness to about 110 cd/m2 and
generate the profile with the same device. Given that I have that
hardware what do you suggest?

Click to expand...

basICColor or ColorEyes. I prefer basICColor, but you need to answer "no" to the question "are you in USA" to use Lstar.

--
Julia

OK...I think.

I looked at the references in your previous response and simply didn't see an easy way to do what you suggest. Which, I think was to be expected. I downloaded the 2 profiles but don't see that they are of amy real use. Please feel free to correct if I'm wrong about that

So, given basICColor or ColorEyes (in conjunction with my I1) I can generate a monitor profile which is Lstar. Is that correct?

Bob Peters

Julia Borg said:

Julia Borg said:

I use an I1 Display to set the brightness to about 110 cd/m2 and
generate the profile with the same device. Given that I have that
hardware what do you suggest?

Click to expand...

basICColor or ColorEyes. I prefer basICColor, but you need to answer
"no" to the question "are you in USA" to use Lstar.

--
Julia

Click to expand...

Robert Peters said:

So, given basICColor or ColorEyes (in conjunction with my I1) I can
generate a monitor profile which is Lstar. Is that correct?

Click to expand...

yes. and then you can use a working space with L*-type curve.

--
Julia

http://sail2ithaki.livejournal.com/12840.html

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Julia

Thank you, Julia.

This latest link is not absolutely clear about which profile is being modified. My reading is that if I start with BetaRGB I then open the appropriate v2 (eciRGB_v2_ICCv4.icc) or v4 (eciRGB_v2.icc) Lstar profile and replace the colorants in the BetaRGB file with the ones from the Lstar file. Or is it the other way around?

In any event, the result would be used as my working space...I think

Edit: Does it follow that I can take a version 2, gamma 2.2, D65 (of D50) profile for my monitor and apply the same technique in order to get an Lstar monitor profile? Or must I get the necessary hardware to generate the profile?

How about a monitor profile which is a LUT?

Bob Peters

Robert Peters said:

Thank you, Julia.

This latest link is not absolutely clear about which profile is being
modified. My reading is that if I start with BetaRGB I then open the
appropriate v2 (eciRGB_v2_ICCv4.icc) or v4 (eciRGB_v2.icc) Lstar
profile and replace the colorants in the BetaRGB file with the ones
from the Lstar file. Or is it the other way around?

Click to expand...

normally you want to keep colorants of your working space. for me it is BetaRGB. so I take the colorants from BetaRGB and put them into any Lstar profile; or I take tone curve from any Lstar profile and put them into BetaRGB.

so it is the other way around.

ECI RGB is good if the goal is CMYK press. takes away headache. but you can do better with a bit of wider RGB color space, in my case - BetaRGB.

Robert Peters said:

the result would be used as my working space...I think

Click to expand...

yes

Robert Peters said:

Does it follow that I can take a version 2, gamma 2.2, D65 (of
D50) profile for my monitor and apply the same technique in order to
get an Lstar monitor profile?

Click to expand...

no, you must calibrate monitor to Lstar, which means creating LUT in the video card (most of the cases)

--
Julia