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Rant on!! A100 and flash exposure!!

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People are abrogating their responsibility to set exposures themselves and them start to blame cameras when things don't turn out right.

SLR's are not P&S units. They may cost lot ("I expect a camera I paid $$$$ for to get it right") but exposure is the shooters responsibility.

You have taken control and get good results, others expect the camera to do it for them and get predictable bad results.

--
http://dakanji.com
 
lonewolf69 said:
Hi Gil,

Someone mentioned here that maybe (rumor/theory ONLY) that DT lenses
MAY give better performance using the flash than FILM based FF lenses
(all of mine). I think the 16-80mm CZ is DT, if I'm not mistaken...
So is the lens you were using when you experienced the problem shots
with your flash?
Click to expand...
It was/is the Zeiss 16-80.. I use it for about 89% of my shooting.

:)

--
Gil
Sardis, BC
Canada
 
Stan_P said:
"I let the camera set whatever" -
Click to expand...
Stan_P said:
Camera can't decide where motion should be stopped - setting shutter
speed yourself gives you more control.

Switching diaphragm settings is giving you more control over depth.
Camera can't know what you want.

Sure Sport, Portrait modes can help, but Manual is bulletproof.

Once again, I'm just explaining how easy it is.
Click to expand...
I started with SLR's using the Fujica ST-801... great camera. Everything
set manually for flash use. I can do that just fine, BUT fail to see why
I have to!!!! This is 34 years later, for God's sake!!! I have used a
bullet-proof flash setup with the Maxxum 5 for the last 7 years. Why
bother buying more than a screw-mount camera, then! :))

You can pick up one of those WITH a good flash for less than $100!!!

I understand what you are saying. I just don't think it is a legitimate
solution for over $1000 worth of camera/flash/lens!!!!

...and too many times I have been caught fiddling with the settings
while the action is happening, and by the time I am ready, the action
is long over.... well, as far as "the moment" is concerned.

--
Gil
Sardis, BC
Canada
 
Gil Knutson said:
...and too many times I have been caught fiddling with the settings
while the action is happening, and by the time I am ready, the action
is long over.... well, as far as "the moment" is concerned.
Click to expand...
Gil,

Stan is only trying to be helpful here, the real antagonist here is Dayo, at this point. I asked for people to post up suggestions and work around for the flash system and that is exactly what Stan did.

Dayo on the other hand... sigh Wishes to only push people's button at this point. If his SB-800 and his D200 stopped working in auto mode, I'm sure he would be singing a totally different tune...

--
-Alex

From the minds of Minolta to the imagination of Sony, Alpha, like no other.

http://www.pbase.com/lonewolf69
 
lonewolf69 said:
You're not helping here! Please just stop antagonizing...
Click to expand...
I honestly don't mean to but the crying out about this issue has gotten to ridiculous levels and people, perhaps fooled by adverts, simply seem to think the camera does it all.

People are pointing cameras at subjects, flicking flash on, pressing the trigger and hoping for the best. Photographers control exposure, not cameras. Do you agree?
--
http://dakanji.com
 
If it is a camera flaw, wouldn't it be a reason for a firmware fix?

I know, silly me, expecting a camera to be able to take flash pictures!!!
--
Looking for 1939 Indian Motocycle
 
lonewolf69 said:
Stan is only trying to be helpful here, the real antagonist here is
Dayo, at this point. I asked for people to post up suggestions and
work around for the flash system and that is exactly what Stan did.

Dayo on the other hand... sigh Wishes to only push people's
button at this point. If his SB-800 and his D200 stopped working in
auto mode, I'm sure he would be singing a totally different tune...
Click to expand...
You may have a point. Perhaps I should just ignore these posts before I get banned for defending Sony on the Sony Forum. That will be ironic.

--
http://dakanji.com
 
Gil,
I'm actually doing it not from "love to art" but because I hate to spend
$$$ on new photo gear. I keep saying to myself
"These are just photos, I can do it with my current camera".

3200xi bounce flash I use is incompatible... It fires at full power every time.
But it works for me for my needs.

Sure, I loose some shots, but learning making test shots ahead teached me not to loose most critical.

I see you point about "super cameras".

LOL!!! They still are same flawed as super cameras 20 years ago.... Only difference is amount of money you spend to get this "superiority".





--
http://www.stan-pustylnik.smugmug.com
 
Dayo said:
SLR's are not P&S units. They may cost lot ("I expect a camera I
paid $$$$ for to get it right") but exposure is the shooters
responsibility.
Click to expand...
Oh, for Heaven's sake, get real, Dayo!!!

I had a system that worked flawlessly, and took just as good pictures,
for a decade! I fail to buy into your argument that it is the shooters
responsibility to make sure the final shot is just right. YES, in a lot
of instances, that may be the truth, but you got your head where the
sun don't shine if you think that all the time we have the time to make
sure the settings are right!!! My subjects are mostly under 6 and very
active... the moment don't wait!!!

Pretty feeble logic you are using, in my opinion!!!

If you are setting up a shoot and you can get the "model" to do what
you want, your logic works. With cats, kids and dogs you just are not
in the same ballpark.
Dayo said:
You have taken control and get good results, others expect the camera
to do it for them and get predictable bad results.
Click to expand...
Don't lecture me. I am probably old enough to be your father, or older
brother, and have shot pictures for nearly 50 years. I am a technology
freak... and have read stuff on photography for just as long. I have used
a flash successfully for over 40 years... both manually and automatically. I
ain't no genius, but I can take the odd ok shot, with and without a flash.
I know the variables, I may not always choose to manipulate them the
way they could be. But, I do know what the technology can do if it is
working right!!!! Give some us credit.... we are not all newbies to
photography, even though we may be "new" to dSLR's.

But, when a person who doesn't know a shutter from an f-stop, or
what a fast-lens is, or what the settings that are needed to get a good
flash created picture CAN get a good shot every time with their system
using the provided external flash, AND I can't duplicate it, THEN there
is something definitely rotten in Denmark!!!!!

The gals I mentioned who own Pentax dSLR's at school, have that success.
Repeatedly!!! Perfecly exposed JPGs!!! Hell, they don't even know what
RAW is.... I have asked!.... and they get it spot on. The equipment does
it every time.

People on here have mentioned they have Nikon systems that very, very
seldom miss. So, why should we have to dance through hoops to get a
consistent, well exposed image from our Sony/Minolta camera/flash systems?

Please don't be sanctimonious and play the part of The Guru, where we
are totally ignorant plebians. It offends me. Yes, I can accept that I may

be in error, but not as often as the flash results indicate!!! I didn't get into
this hobby just last week, or when I first got my A100, four months ago!

I know every machine/camera/car has its idiosyncrasies, and one must
adjust for it. But when you adjust and get it to work 3 times, and then
NOT work 3 times, something is wrong with the machine!

Sheesh!

--
Gil
Sardis, BC
Canada
 
lonewolf69 said:
Gil,

Stan is only trying to be helpful here, the real antagonist here is
Dayo, at this point. I asked for people to post up suggestions and
work around for the flash system and that is exactly what Stan did.
Click to expand...
I wasn't intending to dis Stan. My reply was to Dayo... I just did not
change the subject line. My apologies!

--
Gil
Sardis, BC
Canada
 
Gil

Sorry if I came across all sanctimonious but the fact remains that SLR's are not P&S units. They may cost lot but exposure is the shooters responsibility and given your experience, which I am certain is greater then mine and coming from a time when one definitely had to take responsibility for exposure, you should be not in this position.

I honestly don't mean to offend but some things are just truths even if a bit inconvenient.

--
http://dakanji.com
 
Dayo said:
People are pointing cameras at subjects, flicking flash on, pressing
the trigger and hoping for the best. Photographers control exposure,
not cameras. Do you agree?
Click to expand...
No not really, I don't agree with you.

Why?

Because people have spent a good deal of money on the camera and yes the dSLR does allow the user to have FULL manual control over it's functions from focusing, metering, and exposure settings (aperature and shutter). However, as an advanced dSLR with an AUTO setting on both the camera and FLASH. The camera should be able to used as a P&S. This was the way on the film bodies, with my 500si and 800si and it should be the same for the A100, but it's not.

I would assume that the A100's AUTO setting would be like a set of training wheels on a bicycle, and eventually to be taken off, when a user feels comfortable enough. But don't be condescending to others if they don't have your skill level to ride the bike without the training wheels or simply tell them to jump right in...

And for some it may not even be training wheels, the AUTO or P mode is a QUICK reset to get the camera back to all default settings, especially useful if you have changed a lot of settings and quickly need to reset ALL in one shot.

Just my two cents...

--
-Alex

From the minds of Minolta to the imagination of Sony, Alpha, like no other.

http://www.pbase.com/lonewolf69
 
Alex,

In film era most of photos where printed at 4X5 size, where printing machines n labs did auto exposure of negatives (in addition to camera exposure) and focus problems were microscopic at these print sizes.

Now awe use huge computer screens where these flaws are horrible.

Back to main problem - A100 is worse then some Point&Shot cameras.

Sure, I can see it happening. Especially at tough lighting conditions, where camera program has no way to "know" what subject is main and what to use as main reference point for exposure. Even face recognition function may not help always, but screw the shot if in your mind face should be ignored...

--
http://www.stan-pustylnik.smugmug.com
 
Dayo said:
Sorry if I came across all sanctimonious but the fact remains that
SLR's are not P&S units. They may cost lot but exposure is the
shooters responsibility and given your experience, which I am certain
is greater then mine and coming from a time when one definitely had
to take responsibility for exposure, you should be not in this
position.
Click to expand...
Harumph! I should say NOT! :) Apology accepted..
Dayo said:
I honestly don't mean to offend but some things are just truths even
if a bit inconvenient.
Click to expand...
I understand what you are saying, BUT don't buy it!!!
'
These two pictures were taken within minutes of each other. In this house
there is white tile on the ceiling throughout the house. I had set the camera
so it was taking pictures like the first one... plebian, but you get the
scenario, a typical Christmas Dinner with The Family.

I went into the Living room, and took the second picture. No change
in settings, other than what the camera is setting. Quite a different
result, I think you would agree. They are sequential.

I can get good results... if I am lucky, like you can see in the third image.

The inconsistency drives me nuts!!!! I pretty well know what I am doing
to a degree, but the results with the flash is crazy!!!

Picture One.... Christmas Dinner in the Kitchen....



Picture Two.... Kids Playing in the Living Room.... same ceiling being bounced
off of...



Another day, another location. Bounce flash... Cropped.



Very inconsistent!!!

--
Gil
Sardis, BC
Canada
 
Dayo said:
People are pointing cameras at subjects, flicking flash on, pressing
the trigger and hoping for the best. Photographers control exposure,
not cameras. Do you agree?
Click to expand...
Yes and no. Why can Nikons and Pentaxes take shot after shot after
shot and get good exposure, and we can't... THAT is the issue here!
Not whether or not we can set the bloody things correctly. If the
"Other Guys" can get it right, why is the A100 screwing up so badly
in some cases when all variables are the same????

THAT is the issue, not whether or not we can set it right!

--
Gil
Sardis, BC
Canada
 
thenickmoore said:
I wasn't ware that 1/3 of the A100's might have a flash problem.
Click to expand...
That is a rough estimate from a "straw vote" we took on here
asking, "Who has flash issues with the 5D?". It was not
scientific, just a ballpark figure. The final concensus was that
most don't, some do. Period! The flash issue existed.
thenickmoore said:
It
would be interesting to see how it does if you use one of the Sony
Lens that are digital specific.
Click to expand...
Uh... like the Sony Zeiss 16-80? That is the lens I use, and get these
results from.

--
Gil
Sardis, BC
Canada
 
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