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FBA - Metz 58-AF1

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gringolian said:
John Lai said:
Cloggie_UK said:
Since yesterday the proud owner of a Metz 58 AF-1.
Click to expand...
Glad you like your Metz. What camera do you use it on? I am also one
for my K100D

So a few questions for you.
1) Does the focus assist lamp work in Auto mode?
2) Does the flash adjusts itself with the camera's focal length in
Auto mode?
3) Is recycle time long?

Thanks
John
Click to expand...
Just tested this with my 58 AF-1 and answers are:

1: Yes the AF assist lamp works fine in Auto
2: Yes the Auto Zoom works in auto mode
3: No. I have just taken a bust at 3fps and the flash fired for the
first 5. It then took 2 more shots to recycle then fired twice more
before having to recycle again. I'd say thats pretty fast!!
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And in addition to that, I just put in my freshly charged Eneloops and the recycle appears to be more or less instant. Quite a big difference with the normal NiMH batteries I had in the flash yesterday and they only had one charge cycle so far so I expect it to get even better after they have been recharged a few times.
gringolian said:
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12037823@N06/
I'm learning so welcome any comments constructive or otherwise!!!
Click to expand...
--
René

http://www.luminous-pixels.com
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/ren%C3%A9box
 
John Lai said:
Cloggie_UK said:
Since yesterday the proud owner of a Metz 58 AF-1.
Click to expand...
The Metz seems to have few control buttons
http://www.metz.de/en/photo_electronics/get/341/647.html

Does that means that the functions are buried inside Menus?
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Yes most functions are in menus but they are very easy to navigate and in my opinion quick to set. Of course I can't compare it to the Pentax.
John Lai said:
John
Click to expand...
--
René

http://www.luminous-pixels.com
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/ren%C3%A9box
 
Well some more tests. Took multiple shots of my girlfriend and none of the shots had the blinkies but obviously this is just one person so not conclusive as she might not be susceptible to blinky syndrome :-)

Another test; Recycle in multiple exposure.

Main flash bounced and secondary flash on full power - P-TTL. Took 10 shots in a row (continuous drive mode) without the flash needing to pause to recycle. Even after the 10 shots (did this test twice in a row) the flash recycled instantly. Again this is with brand new Eneloops.

--
René

http://www.luminous-pixels.com
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/ren%C3%A9box
 
Cloggie_UK said:
I live in the U.K. and it is readily available here from several
shops. I bought mine from SRS Microsystems. Very good service.
Ordered it late in the afternoon and I received it by courier the
next morning at 9.00 AM. Very impressed!!

--
René

http://www.luminous-pixels.com
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/ren%C3%A9box
Click to expand...
I found it here. http://www.tristatecamera.com/lookat.php?refid=263&sku=MET58AF1PS
--
Joel

My Location:
New Jersey, USA
My On-Line Album: http://joelsphotos.waxman.org

 
John Lai said:
Mike_H said:
The pre-flash on the Pentax flashes are very short, and very close in
time to the main flash as well - so close that you can not see them
as separate flashes.

The problem is in the camera anyway - not the flash unit itself. The
lag time is too long between when the pre-flash is done, and the main
flash is told to fire. If people are subject to blinking quickly to
P-TTL flash, then they willl blink with this flash as well. The
flash used doesn't speed up the shutter in the camera itself.
Click to expand...
I asked whether the P-TTL mode makes people blink on the Metz support
site. I'll let you all know what is their reply.

John
Click to expand...
There is no question if P-TTL causes blinking - it does.

The problem is that the camera is slower then the eyes of the blinkers, and catches them mid-blink. Again, this has nothing to do with the flash itself - it is a problem with the camera. The camera simply takes too long between the initial pre-flash to the time it instructs the flash to fire again. Slapping a metz or a sigma or a pentax flash into the hot-shoe doesn't affect that timing at all.
 
Mike_H said:
Slapping a metz or a sigma or a
pentax flash into the hot-shoe doesn't affect that timing at all.
Click to expand...
Hi Mike!

Do you have any data/tests to back up that claim?

As camera and flash communicate during P-TTL metering, the flash unit could have some influence. So your categoric denial of that possibility wakes my interest.

Cheers
Jens

--

'Well, 'Zooming with your feet' is usually a stupid thing as zoom rings are designed for hands.' (Me, 2006)
My Homepage: http://www.JensRoesner.de
 
John Lai said:
You may have noticed that my questions are about Auto-mode. Well,
that the way I intend to use the Metz, in case P-TTL mode is not
satisfactory. I am a bit traumatized about a recent thread on the
problems of P-TTL with the Pentax FZG 540..
But this does not seem to be the case with the Metz :)
Click to expand...
I just can't see how you can make any conclusion from one person's account - unless he has both flashes testing side by side.

I personally have no problem with 540FGZ P-TTL exposure, and I get Zero blinkies caused by P-TTL. So if you were to ask me about 540FGZ experience, you would come away with a totally different impression of the 540FGZ than what you read from those threads.
 
JensR said:
JensR said:
Slapping a metz or a sigma or a
pentax flash into the hot-shoe doesn't affect that timing at all.
Click to expand...
Do you have any data/tests to back up that claim?
Click to expand...
Similarly, does anyone have any data/tests to back up OP's claim that Metz is any different from 540FGZ?

My natural instinct tells that there should not be any different. If 3rd party flash behave differently, it should be caused by the fact that the full P-TTL protocol was not followed exactly when it was reverse-engineered. If Metz can duplicate the P-TTL protocol exactly, I simply can't see how changing a flash make much difference. The timing is dictated by the camera, otherwise, all the syncing between it and the flash, or in case of multiple wireless flashes of different brands would be off!
 
The camera tells the flash when to fire - there is no need to look any further then the camera as being the root cause of the problem!

The camera tells the flash to fire a pre-flash. The camera then evaluates the scene to determine how much main flash is required. Once that is done it initiates the shutter opening, and the mirror flipping up. Once those are in there set positions the camera tells the flash to fire it's main flash.

The time it takes since the pre-flash to when the flash fires again is too long for people that have fast blink responses, and that is why you see 'lazy eyes' and 'blinkies'.

You'll note the delay time between the pre-flash to the main flash firing again is all about the camera doing work - the flash itself is not participating in the meter evaluation done in the camera, nor in the physical process of the mirror flipping up, or the shutter opening. The flash is waiting patiently on the hotshoe for the camera to tell it to fire again.

So, unless you find that putting a flash on the hotshoe somehow makes the shutter open faster or the mirror move quicker, or the firmware evaluate a scene faster, then the delay time between the pre-flash and the main flash is pretty well fixed by internal mechanisms of the camera.
 
Mike_H said:
The time it takes since the pre-flash to when the flash fires again
is too long for people that have fast blink responses, and that is
why you see 'lazy eyes' and 'blinkies'.
Click to expand...
Have you tried a K10D?

In case of K10D, the time is not "too long". In fast for most people, K10D pre-flash is short enough that they would not blink before the main flash.

Maybe only the reallly super fast blinkers would have problem with K10D. I personally have not experienced it yet, and I have zero blinkies so far.
 
John Lai said:
Cloggie_UK said:
In Auto Mode you can override Aperture, Zoom, EV and ISO.
Click to expand...
This means flash exposure compensation works in Auto Mode?
Click to expand...
Indeed. I had a play with it last night. Changed the EV and it definitely works.

One thing I did notice is that when you use the built in diffuser and bounce card, auto-zoom reverts to manual zoom on the flash.
John Lai said:
John
Click to expand...
--
René

http://www.luminous-pixels.com
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/ren%C3%A9box
 
So you don't have any data to back it up.
Just a theory.
That's fine.

But I could develop a theory for the opposite, based on the fact (actually assumption, but what the) that the intensity of the preflash varies with ambient light and hence flash power and flash recharge time come into play. Also, the reaction time of flashes to the control signals from the camera might be slightly different.

--

'Well, 'Zooming with your feet' is usually a stupid thing as zoom rings are designed for hands.' (Me, 2006)
My Homepage: http://www.JensRoesner.de
 
hi

i'm using 2 vivitar 285hv on and off board and i'm vry happy bu i'd like o add more flash o have a least 4 for outdoor shooting. I'd ike o add a metz nd proably a pentax360.

Can you tell me 2 things?
  • Price of the flash
  • is there a way to put some gel in front of he flash? I love the vivitar slot for filter and i'd like to have a asy way to use gel wih the flash.
thanks
--
http://www.pbase.com/jon1976
 
JensR said:
So you don't have any data to back it up.
Just a theory.
That's fine.
But I could develop a theory for the opposite, based on the fact
(actually assumption, but what the) that the intensity of the
preflash varies with ambient light and hence flash power and flash
recharge time come into play. Also, the reaction time of flashes to
the control signals from the camera might be slightly different.

--
'Well, 'Zooming with your feet' is usually a stupid thing as zoom
rings are designed for hands.' (Me, 2006)
My Homepage: http://www.JensRoesner.de
Click to expand...
The 'reaction' time as you put it must be spot on for all flashes, or else they would be worthless. A flash is useless if it fires too soon - or too late for that matter, therefore there is no tolerance for variation in timing.

The flash is charged fully before the entire process is started - the amount of ambient light makes no difference here.

There is no question here - the problem lies with the camera. If you have people that are blinking from p-ttl, they will blink regardless of which p-ttl flash you put on the camera. The timings are dictated by the camera, not the flash.

If you want #'s, here is a thread that presented those:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=20452624
 
Using the diffuser means you are trying to get the widest possible distribution of light, the flash probably knows this and will force the zoom head to the widest setting. I bet the bounce card comes out at the same time as the diffuser, but if you slide the diffuser all the way back in and leave the bounce card out it will allow the zoom head to be put back to auto mode.
 
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