Why does the K10D use SD memory cards?

you obviously did not read what i wrote i was stating original costs. when i bought my 4gb hitachi microdrvs they were above the $200 mark everywhere. ditto for any sandisk 4gb cards they approached $300. this was not recently, after the memory card prices dropped.

Rule 34 said:

I remember paying $150 for 32MB of RAM back in the early 90s...
Computer technology in general is a horrid investment, until things
sort of level out a bit more it will continue to be.

Click to expand...

I don't remember how much I paid for a 32MB smart media card. Between $150-200..?

I don't think things will ever level out. The only way they will would be in form factor, which has already happened.. CF and SD (and it's juniors). I am very happy SD has evolved the way it has so far. Many new notebook computers have a built in SD card slot reader as well. Reading speed may vary though, but it's conveniently there.

--
Allan

"I can understand the complaint if Pentax previously used a CF card and then switched to SD, but otherwise it is just like a person complaining they have to buy new lenses when they switch from Canon or Nikon to Pentax."

guess what i own the pentax *istD. so what card does it use, not sd does it? i have 28gb of microdrvs and cf cards, which when purchased an couple yrs ago easily added up to over $1000. now all useless with the new pentax dslrs. if paying a grand for memory and now throwing it in the garbage because the maker switched memory doesn't bother you for a grand, it sure bothers me.

not if you have already have a large investment in cf type memory.

what would happen if pentax changed their lens mount to say an L mount and all you k-mount lenses would suddenly not fit. would you be still be so calm about the whole thing? pentax now would say-simple go out and buy all new l mount lenses. still calm?

I remember reading a review on the *ist-DS that heralded SD finally replacing the "antiquated" CF used on the more expensive *ist-D. It was considered a much awaited upgrade.

CF has its place, but I've always found it a bit awkward for use in a camera. PCMCIA is a useful form factor, and the fact that you can adapt CF directly to an IDE connector gives it strong benefits, but its large, heavy, awkward appearance in cameras always seemed strange to me, and placing the fragile pins in the camera body always scared me (the guide rails usually prevent bent pins, unlike IDE, but I've bent enough IDE pins to always fear it.)

As others pointed out even the newer Canon cameras are starting to include SD slots...even the 1DMk3 I believe. (They added SD, removed AF )

CF will likely always be the performance leader..typically the larger the form factor for the storage device, the cheaper it is to make it larger and faster, but SD is advancing more rapidly than CF, so we'll see where it goes in 5 years. Already SDHC can be plenty large, and plenty fast. If you need to shoot more than about 10-20 frames (camera brand/model dependent) at fastest possible speed in continuous, then CF may be better. For nearly everything else, SD can do what CF did years ago, and you can bring more of it more conveniently, and it's less easy to break the camera with it. Plus it keeps the camera smaller and lighter usually.

Personally I see SD overtaking CF even in the pro world (except for those with special needs) in the not so distant future due to price, size/weight, and convenience/capacity. I don't think CF will disappear, however.

not if you have already have a large investment in cf type memory.

what would happen if pentax changed their lens mount to say an L mount and all you k-mount lenses would suddenly not fit. would you be still be so calm about the whole thing? pentax now would say-simple go out and buy all new l mount lenses. still calm?

my smallest memory is 1gb. and i did not say i was in digital for 37yrs. i said i was a pentax customer for 37yrs. try reading next time when you quote someone.

and it doesn't matter what memory costs are now, i have already paid my grand plus to which pentax is saying too bad it is all useless you have to use sd.

no, i am not to happy with pentax.

Cideway said:

For a grand you could almost buy 60 GBs worth of Sandisk Extreme III
cards.
--
'The colour 18% grey was invented by a Workplace Safety committee'

GMT +9.5

Pentax SLR talk FAQ
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=23161072

Click to expand...

that is in today's prices. try shopping for it 2-3yrs ago. if the card was even available what was the cost? then turn around and buy 28gb of good name brand cards at 3yrs ago prices and see what the cost is/was.

GaryDeM said:

not if you have already have a large investment in cf type memory.

Click to expand...

And once again I ask why on Earth you would need 28GB of memory.

GaryDeM said:

what would happen if pentax changed their lens mount to say an L
mount and all you k-mount lenses would suddenly not fit. would you be
still be so calm about the whole thing? pentax now would say-simple
go out and buy all new l mount lenses. still calm?

Click to expand...

Apples and oranges. If you think they are close the the same, your priorities are messed. Consider this: Nowadays memory is so cheap that if I were never to reuse my SD cards, one exposure on digital is still cheaper than one exposure on Provia, Velvia or any other better slide film. Even Tri-X is nosing close to the single exposure costs. Quite a difference between that and the cost of a lens system.

GaryDeM said:

my smallest memory is 1gb. and i did not say i was in digital for
37yrs. i said i was a pentax customer for 37yrs. try reading next
time when you quote someone.

Click to expand...

I guess the sarcasm zipped right over your head. I can read perfectly well thanks and I would think that anyone who takes a quip about 37 year old CF cards at face value would be the one who has comprehension problems.

GaryDeM said:

and it doesn't matter what memory costs are now, i have already paid
my grand plus to which pentax is saying too bad it is all useless you
have to use sd.

Click to expand...

It does matter, because you made it matter. You stated that the cards you bought over the past number of years for $1000 dollars would now cost $1000 to buy again in SD. I pointed out how that is patently untrue. Bottom line is that you weren't honest with your post and you got called on it.

GaryDeM said:

no, i am not to happy with pentax.

Click to expand...

Things change, get on with your life. Considering that Pentax essentially changed to SD three years ago, it is about time you let it go. Life is too short.

--



http://www.trekearth.com/members/Darren/photos/
http://www.darrenmelrose.com
http://dailysomeone.blogspot.com

My name is Darren, I shoot people.
Have camera, will travel

So you paid 2k+ for body only and additional 1k for CF cards... I cannot imagine what kind of money you spent on lenses... Dosnt matter. No offense but hawing such sort of storage is kind of sign of either stupidity or pro use. If it was pro use, then they served their amortisation time (as being a comuter related tool). If it was just for fun, hobby, then you may made an irrational estimate on what you need.

I spended my money on a k10d to early. -out of pure stupidity- Guess what, i could get it now along with a 40/2,8 ltd + a ton of SD. :-D

Darren M said:

Now on to your questionable math: You say you have $1000 tied up in
CF cards at the original costs, yet it would now cost you that same
$1000 to replace the CF with SD. Impossible. SD is cheaper to begin
with, and when you consider the massive drops in price on memory,
there is no possible way this makes sense

Click to expand...

Well, if you're going from the 6 mp D to the rumored 14 mp of the next model and you wanted to maintain the same number of shots presumably you'd need more than double the capacity. So that offsets some of price drop.

On the other hand, with the larger files perhaps even your 2 gig cards are going to seem too small, so a large portion of your cards may be rendered obsolete even if they did still technically work in the camera. If you're only getting 50 shots or so in RAW with the card then it's not worth carrying it around with you anyway. I have lots of little hard drives of 170 mb or 3 gb that still work and can still be put into my PC, but you don't see me using them even though they were expensive at the time.

And at this point with CF still being used by other cameras and devices you can probably get a little bit of the money to buy the SD cards on ebay if you have no other use for them.

When I was first looking at getting a digital p&s I specifically went for one that used cf so that when I eventually went to a dslr I could be sure I could reuse the cards. But then of course the entry level dslrs all started switching to sd and the prices came down. I hadn't invested much in the cf cards anyway so it wasn't a big deal for me.

I rarely feel compelled to chime in on a thread, but I can't resist right now. In your earlier post you state:
"to replace it all would only cost another grand worth of sandisk cards"

I just did a quick price search and found 2 GB Sandisk Ultra II cards for $29 from a highly rated seller. At that price it will cost you $406 to totally replace your CF. After other forum members pointed out the decreasing price of memory, in your more recent posts you seem to be saying that you are "out" $1000, no matter what it costs you to replace it, because that's what you've got invested.

What if Pentax gave away 30 GB of SD free with the camera? Would you still feel like you've "lost" $1000?

No, $406 isn't the same as getting it free, but it isn't $1000 either. Plus, I'll bet you could recover some of that by selling your CF on ebay.

I see you have an IstD. What did you pay for it when you bought it? $1200 maybe? A new IstD sold on ebay recently for $306.79. Are you mad at Pentax because your camera has lost $900 in value? What you paid for something 3 years ago, or even 1 year ago is irrelevant. You've gotten 3 years (I'm guessing) of use out of that memory. Is that worth nothing?

Also, regarding your analogy to Pentax changing lens mounts... I hope you don't honestly think that is the same thing. Where as memory has gotten cheaper by nearly an order of magnitude, and replacing what you bought three years ago is relatively cheap compared to the price of a new camera, replacing even a modest kit of quality lenses could easily dwarf a camera body purchase.
--
David

It's the most generally available format, fitting the highest number of
devices, also generally slightly cheaper than CF, since a couple of years
ago. All trends are in SD's favour.

I don't think it's slower than CF, it's certanily fast enough - even for
high quality video.

CF has the weakness that you can bend the pins if you get dirt in the
holes or if you put the card in the wrong way (stress, distraction). This
means a costly repair of the camera, no warranty issue.

Besides all Pentax DSLRs (after the first?), the D40, D40x, D50 and D80
use SD, as do the L1 and L10 and for sure any future Panasonic DSLR.
Some Canon Pro DSLRs also take SD in the second slot. So even within
DSLRs, CF's dominance is modest.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Canon switching to SD for their Rebel line.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden

When posting photos for comment, please give basic settings and/or leave EXIF intact.

GaryDeM said:

what would happen if pentax changed their lens mount to say an L
mount and all you k-mount lenses would suddenly not fit.

Click to expand...

I think I'd welcome a universe in which lenses halved in cost every 12-18 months the way memory cards do, even if the result was that manufacturers didn't feel so obligated to keep backward compabitility for them...

Rule 34 said:

I remember paying $150 for 32MB of RAM back in the early 90s...

Click to expand...

Be thankful that you didn't have to shell out $1500 for 128K of memory (yes, "K") in the early 1980's as I did... :-D

Peter T said:

I remember being surprised when I first found out the K10D uses SD
cards. I thought perhaps SD cards had caught up to CF cards but it
appears that is not so.

Click to expand...

The fastest memory usually shows up in CF first. If you want a given speed wait a couple of months and it will be avaialble in SD.

However, my phone uses SD (well the last one used mini and the current Micro, but they have adapters to full SD). My Laptop has an SD socket. My MP3 recorder uses SD. My compact camera uses SD. My USB thumb drive has an SD card in it.

CF is a legacy format as far as I'm concerned. At one time all DSLRs were CF Pentax where the first to go SD. Nikon can't make their minds up D300 is CF, D40 is SD - so when you upgrade the body you need to replace memory as well.

Canon require you to change if you move from a compact to one of their SLRs. Sony have memory stick and Olympus have XD on the lower cameras, change from one of those to anything else ...

Pentax is the only one to be consistent. Granted these days SD is cheap but it's still a pain to switch.

GaryDeM said:

guess what i own the pentax *istD. so what card does it use, not sd
does it? i have 28gb of microdrvs and cf cards, which when purchased
an couple yrs ago easily added up to over $1000. now all useless with
the new pentax dslrs. if paying a grand for memory and now throwing
it in the garbage because the maker switched memory doesn't bother
you for a grand, it sure bothers me.

Click to expand...

I didn't know the *istD used CF, as this is my first pentax DSLR. I have owned many of their film cameras. On this subject, do you dislike pentax for switching to digital from film? Many people had thousands of dollars invested in developing equipment. Many of these people were the naysayers about digital. It was only a few years ago when people said digital would never overtake pro 35mm and medium film formats.

Granted, that is a more extreme switch, and I agree a switch from types of memory doesn't make a lot of sense, but I imagine it was based on future availability and cost of memory. SD is really a more convenient and lower cost package for a number of reasons and will probably save people money in the long run.

If you are buying a K10D, keep both cameras and slowly acquire a few SD cards to work with the new camera, and still use your CF cards with your old cameras. And as has been said many times, the cost to replace those is nowhere near $1000 (regardless of what you paid a few years ago). If I buy a new car for $30k I can't complain when I go trade it in in 10 years that they are only giving me $3k for it. Depreciation, it is a fact of life, especially in high end electronics.

And related, decide if you really need 28 GB worth of memory cards. Remember that memory cards are NOT suitable for long term storage as they can suffer data loss over time. They are a temporary medium for getting the pictures from the camera to a more permanent medium. If you just put them on the shelf to store them like negatives you might find you have no pictures on them after a couple of years.

at adorama-

price of san disk extreme III 4gb sd cards with out rebate(rebate goes to to 1/5/08) is $80(rounded). 28gb is 7 cards that is $560 on top of the cf cards i can now pile on a dresser and make faces at. the $560 is after the price drop on memory.

so if pentax changed to a L lens mount that was incompatible with the k mount it would not bother you. it would me i have many times the original camera cost in lenses.

in any event the k10d was at the time supposed to represent the top of pentaxs dslr line, not the entry level. what would it have added to the k10d price for dual slots $20 maybe. so for $20 change in price all the *istD owners are going to have to invest more money in sd cards which they wouldn't have been needed if pentax had run dual slots. the user could have run the new k10d and the *istD with the same lenses and cards on the same photo job.

i am stating the above because that is what nikon and canon have done with their top line dslrs. why couldn't pentax have matched them? end of rant.

I'm just wondering why did u end up buying 28GB of flash memory? Professional shoots?

OTOH if you do shoot pro, then 500 USD to get some new memory is hardly a significant investment...

I wonder what the average amount of memory people on this forum have. I would guess 4GB...

Laurens

viking79 said:

Remember that memory cards are NOT suitable for long term storage as
they can suffer data loss over time.

Click to expand...

Anything can suffer data loss over time, including hard drives. Scanning the net for information on flash memory data retention seems to indicate that 10 years is a typical amount of time one can expect information to last, with lots of industrial-grade products being guaranteed for 20 years or more.

GaryDeM said:

Cideway said:

For a grand you could almost buy 60 GBs worth of Sandisk Extreme III
cards.
--
'The colour 18% grey was invented by a Workplace Safety committee'

GMT +9.5

Pentax SLR talk FAQ
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=23161072

Click to expand...

that is in today's prices. try shopping for it 2-3yrs ago. if the
card was even available what was the cost? then turn around and buy
28gb of good name brand cards at 3yrs ago prices and see what the
cost is/was.

Click to expand...

Yes, but that's depreciation. The difference between the replacement cost of the capacity now and the price you paid for the capacity 2 years ago is already lost. Simply, your cards today are not worth what you paid for them. That is an issue separate from what your other legitimate gripes against SD/SDHC might be.