ATTN: Canon Wireless Flash Firmware!

for starters, I was simply responding to your own comments. Such as
D70 versus D80 commander mode being different - so how does one keep
both bodies in sync if they wish to use both during a shoot?
There would no issues with multiple bodys in the same room as long as both are not attempting to take pictures at the same exact time. This is because The camera's communicate via pre-flashes all the settings/ratio's are in the bodies not the units. Thats the true strenght of the sytem the flash does not care which body it triggering it.

http://nickmjr.smugmug.com/
Nick M
 
One of the things that makes the Nikon Flashes work good is because
its extremely consistant and accurate due to Nikon has a great
metering system thats fully configurable. I've been using it for 3
years now and I rarely have to use FEC (Flash Exposure Compensation)
to get the right exposure. Nikon's flash system uses the same
metering setting as "non-flash" exposures are taken and you don't
have to go into the menu to make these settings.
You know? The G9 does exactly this, and I've been kinda wondering why Canon omits this feature on their SLRs of being able to do the three evaluative, spot or average (on the G9 is CW instead) for both FEL and pre-flash. It seems SO silly that you can only do spot with FEL and only eval. or average with pre-flash. Worse, they don't even tell you that in ANY manual I've read.

Although, I've thought about it a little bit, and it seems at first sight that having two separate meterings, one for camera and one for flash, could be beneficial, like you can spot-meter on the background, and then spot-flash-meter on the subject, but Canon's system doesn't make it easy. For instance, you can't do flash exposure lock and regular exposure lock at the same time, which would be a good idea if you have two separate meterings for exposure and flash. Also, when in Evaluative, the camera's metering already behaves differently when you turn on or off the flash, so it's all confusing instead. I don't know if I'm being very clear here, I hope you know what I mean. I'm nitpicking, though, I could be just happy if they did it the G9 way, there are workarounds for the other stuff.
Nikon Flash system uses two distintic modes one is Standard i-TTL,
which uses spot metering and is designed to be the "Primary light"
source for low light areas and they have a i-TTL BL (Balanced Light)
mode, which is for Matrix and Centerweighted metering and is mostly
used for Flash fill whereas the flash is only a secondary light
source.

There is big differences between "Canon Evaluative" and "Nikon
Matrix" may be the reason for the reliability of Nikon Flash. Canon's
Evaluative is only meters in 35 zones of the frame and Nikon's Matrix
is an array of 1,005 pixels RGB sensor and has a database of scene's
to help determine the Exposure Value. Also take into account that
Spot Metering is a good way for the camera to calculate the amount
of output needed to light one part of the frame for an accurate
exposure where you want in not just for the whole frame.
This is something like what I was thinking. Thanks for explaining. I do think Nikon has better features overall in their whole system, not just flash, but Canon keeps my bank account more in check, cause there's more to choose from.

--
Andy
 
Like a previous poster, it was one of the things I missed most when switching from Minolta film SLRs. My 600si's, at $350 each in the 1990s, had it built in. Every other DSLR maker out there includes it now; it's obviously neither expensive nor rocket science.

Being able to carry and use only a single off-camera flash is extremely convenient. If I'm working with 2 flashes, a 550 or 580 on camera is what I want maybe 5% of the time. If I'm carrying 2 flashes, I want both of 'em off camera most of the time. If I'm only carrying 1 flash, I want it off camera most of the time.

Russell
 
for starters, I was simply responding to your own comments. Such as
D70 versus D80 commander mode being different - so how does one keep
both bodies in sync if they wish to use both during a shoot?
There would no issues with multiple bodys in the same room as long as
both are not attempting to take pictures at the same exact time. This
is because The camera's communicate via pre-flashes all the
settings/ratio's are in the bodies not the units. Thats the true
strenght of the sytem the flash does not care which body it
triggering it.
can you actually read?

I start shooting with a D200. all my settings for CLS are in the D200 body.. are you with me so far? I have a,b and c groups set up.

Now I switch down to my D70.

what happens?

D70 supports two groups. so I have to change my lighting setup. thus .. i-n-c-o-m-p-a-t-a-b-i-l-i-t-y.

now did I go too quickly for you here?

or .. if I have to move the settings between say a D300 and down to a D200?

or vis versa? or from a D200 to a d80 or a D70? do I have to manually inspect each camera and check / verify the settings on each? can I transfer the settings between any body to move the flash settings that I was currently working with to another body?

your solution that you are touting as economically sound, locks you into ONE model of body, and upgrading ALL bodies if you use flash systems, or you have to do what we do anyways, buy the SU-800 (ST-E2) equivalent anyways.
 
Having a option to use your popup flash is better than not having the option. I realize there will be limitations and differences between camera bodies but it is better than nothing. Wouldn't you like to use your popup flash when the 2CR5 batteries in your ST-E2 die?
 
rrcphoto wrote:

Your really stuck on the theroy that you would believe your paying
for wireless or any other feature over and over again with new
bodies. What you fail to understand is simple economics. Sure you
may pay a little more for a full featured camera than a camera
without features but on the flipside, when you sell that camera
you'll get more for it then you would selling a camera with less
features. The price is completely realative. For example if you buy
an expensive BMW your not going to sell it 3 years later at the price
you would sell a Chevy.
Ain't it too odd then Nikon did not put this necessity in their
best selling dSLR, not even the X-model of that. Makes one wonder ...
Wireless in not on there proline cause they have no onboard flash it
is as simple as that. Nikon does have a separate Wireless Controler
called SU-800 which is similar to the ST-ET2
As you did not catch the point, I was not talking about pro cams but the nikon best selling cams D40 and D40X. These I think do have the pop-up flash, but AFAIK not this necessity feature.

And if you think the cost from end-user point of view, you pay a little for w-less flash in each camera you buy. This investment is mostly lost when you upgrade. If you buy a separate accessory, this is one-time investment and you can use that in any camera(s) you jave or may choose to buy. Unclear which eventually is the more economic model - and depends of course a lot of you personal habits and needs to upgrade your gears to newest.
 
ETTL is for lazy people. Auto=garbage for most things.
How do you go about shooting manual with two or more flashes on tripods and a ST-E2 in events? Even with one flash mounted on the camera it's difficult, let alone with two or more.

--
Andy
 
There is a place for both.

There are many times when just setting things manually works a lot better because you can set it by trial and error and then go with that setting and get exactly what you want. Often this ends up being easier than ETTL because you only need to adjust things one time and then you're set for (for example) shooting a bunch of portraits assuming the studio setup remains the same.

This is also true with other situations where you don't want things being fooled by changing backgrounds or varying reflectivity of the subject (or their clothing). Manual can not only be more accurate, but less work in such situations.

But despite that, the thing is that there are still times, with widely varying conditions, where ETTL is the best we can do at this point. There just happen to be situations where things are changing too fast for us to use manual. Heck, you can't even set the output without pushing a button and turning a dial - that is if you can see the display - where's that darn light button? Arrrgh!

There is good use for both manual and ETTL. But it is true that very often manual is easier and better. Just not for fast-moving shooting on the fly situations. It's not that unusual for a wedding or event photographer to have assistants carrying the remote flashes. In that kind of situation, you may not have time to do things manually the way you would in a studio or fixed setup.

If the distances change, then the flash power(s) must change to accommodate that. If things are happening too fast, you're no longer able to use manual. And that's where ETTL comes in.

But Canon used to have an interesting solution for this (for one flash, at least). Back in the days of the FD lenses, they had a gizmo that attached to the front of the lens that contained a large potentiometer. The pot told the flash what the focus distance was. And that dictated the flash power. That system was pretty much foolproof because reflectivity of the scene had nothing to do with it. It simply set the power to match the distance. Simple, effective, and accurate. Of course, you could fine-tune things with aperture so once you figured it out for the film you were using, it was a done deal!

I often wish we had a simple "distance mode" for these modern flashes. Anything that reads the reflected light can be wrong just as any light meter in the camera can be wrong. There's no way for it to ever know what the scene really is so it cannot judge from the brightness of the image it sees. But a distance mode where we still had FEC to tweak things might nail things perfectly (for a single on-camera flash) every time. Of course it'd be useless for multi-flash setups so I realize this is kind of OT except that distance came up.... I digress :)

I look at auto flash the way I look at auto focus. It's great when you need it, but when you don't, then manual is usually best. But there's a place for both and I'm darn glad to have the auto mode when I really need it. But you do need to practice with it to get to where it'll do what you expect it to do! It's just very hard to come up with a system that can handle any scene automatically. It's just impossible for the camera to know what's important and what isn't.

--
Jim H.
 

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