This forum becoming useless: moving elsewhere!

Bertie

The only proven tactic against trolls is to ignore them. In this case it could take a while because some of the participants (those who don't frequent the forum much) didn't notice right away that they are dealing with a troll. Eventually they will, and once that happens, it's only a matter of time until they stop reading and responding to his posts. Be patient.

Another option is to move to a forum with higher moderation, but the one Mitch linked to isn't very active (at least not yet). It would have been good if ricohforum.com had higher moderation, but it seems to be infested by the same pest, so we might as well stay here.

Prog.

--

If you don't feed Lucridders with replies, he will eventually give up and leave. Guaranteed.
Until then, feel free to click the [COMPLAINT] button and report his behavior.

Let me, if I may, offer a different way of looking at this. I don't think any forum necessarily gets to be "useless" although every forum has its moments of frustration. And I haven't been aware of the controversies here and have no horse in those races (nor would I want to). These DPReview forums have high visibility and high participation, that's a useful position to be in and it makes it more likely that photographers will find the discussions in the first place.

So, let me present the following as an alternative introduction. In addition to this forum, various photographers will also be discussing small sensor cameras at the new forum and that discussion will be cross-brand. I don't have any connection to the GetDPI site other than being a member but I do like that there's real moderation there which means that the focus should stay on photography and not on personal conflicts (which many people get pulled into whether they're interested in them or not). In my mind, personal conflicts, rudeness, lack of consideration, etc. interfere more with the usefulness of any forum than do changes in content, etc.

So, I'm hoping that it will be a civil forum and am sure that both this forum and the new one can be useful.

Again....a different way to think about this. It's not necessary to polarize the discussion, IMHO.

Lastly, I think Guy and Jack will be quite good moderators. What they won't (and shouldn't) stand for is trolling, lack of consideration, rudeness, personal attacks, etc. And that is something I strongly support. Without it, the tone of any forum can really take a beating.

Cheers,

Sean

Prognathous said:

Another option is to move to a forum with higher moderation, but the
one Mitch linked to isn't very active (at least not yet).

Click to expand...

It just started late last night. I asked for it to be started so there would be another cross-brand forum for discussing 4/3 and small sensor cameras.

Cheers,

Sean

Thank you Prog for the nice words.
Really good to have people like you on a forum.

Every time I reed your explanations it makes me more happy and convincing me more that you really are telling the right things.
Now happy?
If not, ell me what I have to wrie, I do it for you, promessed.

Sean Reid said:

It just started late last night. I asked for it to be started so
there would be another cross-brand forum for discussing 4/3 and small
sensor cameras.

Click to expand...

4/3 as in cameras with 4:3 aspect ratio or as in FourThirds sensors. I can see how the former are related to small-sensor cameras, but the latter are much more similar to APS-C, no?

Prog.

--

If you don't feed Lucridders with replies, he will eventually give up and leave. Guaranteed.
Until then, feel free to click the [COMPLAINT] button and report his behavior.

Prognathous said:

Sean Reid said:

It just started late last night. I asked for it to be started so
there would be another cross-brand forum for discussing 4/3 and small
sensor cameras.

Click to expand...

4/3 as in cameras with 4:3 aspect ratio or as in FourThirds sensors.
I can see how the former are related to small-sensor cameras, but the
latter are much more similar to APS-C, no?

Prog.

--
If you don't feed Lucridders with replies, he will eventually give up
and leave. Guaranteed.
Until then, feel free to click the [COMPLAINT] button and report his
behavior.

Click to expand...

Hi Prog.,

4/3 as in the format. The decision to blend the two was that of the site owners. My own feeling is the 4/3 tends to blend some of the qualities of APS-C with some of the qualities of small sensor cameras. But, in fact I'm hoping to see the discussion there be photography driven so that the format question goes wherever it needs to.

Cheers,

Sean

Superb, thanks Sean and Mitch for posting this link.

I have just joined the forum myself and look forwards to some constructive and sensible posts without the proverbial trolls dragging it into disrepute.

A lesson from history:

"On 24 September 1880 Captain Charles Boycott noticed something strange. He was a former army officer, and was now land agent for rent collection and evictions on Lord Erne's estate in Co Mayo. He had never been the most popular person. But today something was different. None of his men showed up for work, no one he approached would look at him, much less talk to him. Although he didn't know it at the time, he was now the focus of a campaign of ostracism that would soon spread throughout Ireland.

"He was very harsh, refusing to lower rents in hard times and disposessing tenant farmers who couldn't pay. In 1880 the tenants, encouraged by the Irish Land League, retaliated. They refused to pay their rents, some tenants were evicted and others refused to carry out their work.

"The tenants were supposed to look after crops belonging to Lord Erne, but refused to do so. Finally, the British Government stepped in and sent 1000 soldiers to protect labourers who were brought in to harvest the crop.

"Tenants and labourers organised a campaign to isolate Captain Boycott. Boycott and his family were without servants or farmhands and without mail delivery or service in shops. Their own crops failed and they fled back to England."

QEF
--
Bertie

May spend more time there than here due to some of the same things Mitch mentions.

Thanks for the link.

Mark T.

I hope it will be a forum that is discussing a cam in a neutral way and not a forum that is creating an individual style of photographs and not trying to make things better.

I hope it will not a forum with people who are convinced that it is the best in their own cocoon.

I hope it will not be a forum where some "experts" are propagating only their point of view.
But maybe I am just dreaming.
Than I dream further.

I hope it will not be a forum where we only can see pictures posted with the same style (one master and the rest slaves who are copying).

I hope that the so called artists (whats in a name) will find the right PP software to make their dreams come true.

I hope that they one day realise that not them are the artists but the software developpers, who made it possible to make a picture looking good by moving sliders and filling in values.
Anyhow, I wish all of them lots of pleasure.

TonyGamble said:

I took a look at that other forum, mainly in the hope that it showed
more interest in making good pictures than the newly revived craze
for 'street photography'.

We seemed to have attracted a bundle of people with GRD's who imagine
that winding up the ASA, converting to B&W and shooting from the hip
will produce a new generation of Cartier-Bresson masterpieces.

C-B may have shot a lot in the street, but he planned his pictures -
not relying on luck and a 'trusty' GRD.

Click to expand...

TonyGamble said:

(snip)

Click to expand...

TonyGamble said:

Tony
London UK

Click to expand...

Well said, and just what I've been thinking. There's been a lot said about "intent", but in fact, much of this so-called "street photography" displays a lack of decent composition and is devoid of any emotional involvement. As if the "bokeh" by itself can create art.

Dave

Iansky said:

Superb, thanks Sean and Mitch for posting this link.

I have just joined the forum myself and look forwards to some
constructive and sensible posts without the proverbial trolls
dragging it into disrepute.

Click to expand...

ditto.

There is another group of people using the GX100, GRD and GRD II who just want a good to excellent pocket camera that can shoot RAW and has the many settings available as these cameras do.

I am not a street or candid photographer and shoot 95% color. I come to these forums to learn the the best way to use the equipment.

People like Mitch and some others leaving this forum knocks some of that learning potential down. I'll read the posts at the new site, but I cannot see joining because I see it as a street/candid photograpers group mainly for pro and semi-pro shooters. I think this is a good idea for them and it makes good sense.
--
Gil

Gil-W said:

There is another group of people using the GX100, GRD and GRD II who
just want a good to excellent pocket camera that can shoot RAW and
has the many settings available as these cameras do.
I am not a street or candid photographer and shoot 95% color. I come
to these forums to learn the the best way to use the equipment.
People like Mitch and some others leaving this forum knocks some of
that learning potential down. I'll read the posts at the new site,
but I cannot see joining because I see it as a street/candid
photograpers group mainly for pro and semi-pro shooters. I think this
is a good idea for them and it makes good sense.

Click to expand...

The new forum is not aimed at street photography at all: it is meant for photography with small sensor cameras, colour and B&W. It is only that most, but not all, of the initial pictures posted are street photography. As for myself, that is what I'm shooting now but the series below my signature (Chartres and the Chateaux of the Loire) is not street photography. I have also done several series in colour.

—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/sets/72157603089594785/show/

Thank you Mitch, that is a nice series and I had seen it before. I will admit that following this forum I leaned to appriciate yours and others B&W style of photography whether it be a series such as in your link or street/candid photography.

I will read the posts at the new site, I am sure to learn things about small camera photography and the GRD II that will be very helpful to me.

Gil

mitchall said:

Gil-W said:

There is another group of people using the GX100, GRD and GRD II who
just want a good to excellent pocket camera that can shoot RAW and

Click to expand...

The new forum is not aimed at street photography at all: it is meant
for photography with small sensor cameras, colour and B&W. It is only
that most, but not all, of the initial pictures posted are street
photography. As for myself, that is what I'm shooting now but the
series below my signature (Chartres and the Chateaux of the Loire) is
not street photography. I have also done several series in colour.

—Mitch/Bangkok

Click to expand...

That point should be underscored. That forum is just over 24 hours old and the content simply reflects the work of the people who have posted there so far. But, on any given week or day, that could vary. It's a forum for people who are interested in small sensor cameras as photographic tools. There's a (well enforced) expectation that no one will be rude, insulting, etc. but any and all kinds of work are, from my perspective, quite welcome there. And I'm sure the latter is also true for this forum here as well.

Cheers,

Sean

Thanks Mitch (and Sean).

See you there.

Well at least two of think is is junk rather than art.

I suppose a good description of junk is that it is something not worth keeping.

A good description I heard for art was that it was the result of conscious thought.

It was a phrase used in discussing the display of the 'Unmade Bed' in a London museum/gallery. Am I not right in thinking these shot from the hip snapshots display the same lack of forethought?

Tony

Here I fully agree. They call it art and hemselves artists to make hemselves interesting.

When this is art, than we have to see art in an other way and right away everything becomes art than.
I will not say that you can not like it.

The happy few here thinks however that they need to post every man that they see on the street. (Is even forbidden by law).

Moreover those people still thinks that they create the art by using a PP software. Really silly.

Maybe they see art as a photograph where you can not even recognise what they captured and the more grain the better.

For me, I am more interested about what a cam can really do. The rest I keep for myselves.

I will not annoy people to post again and again a B&W picture with people on the street.

I think they found on the new forum a new way to tell everybody for themselves how they need to make kitch-art.

Do not forget, all starts with what is possible with a cam, not what can be done later on in PP as this is for everyone a personal question.

Photography is technically based as we start with a piece of hard and software. Not PP based.

So lets try to make cams better and more userfriendly, this will bring profits to everybody.

An other doubt I have is about Sean when it is the same Sean as the one who is selling his reviews. Is not good at all what he is doing and offering people some space to discuss. Of coorse I can admit that his bussiness will maybe run better.