Reading mode: Light Dark

What is the best camera system for BIF photography?

Go to last post
Ridge Runner said:
Mousehill said:
To my limited understanding, Pentax is just as capable as any other
brand. Main difference is that Pentax can't "machine-gun" a bird in
the sky.
Click to expand...
Nice shots, Mike, very nice. What camera/lens/tripod/etc?

A little while back I had the opportunity to photograph some
California Condors in the wild. As I rounded a curve near Big Sur, I
saw 4-5 photographers in a group with their big lenses pointed
upward. I figured there must be something special going on, stopped
and sure enough, the condors were perched on a cliff 150 feet above
me. I was the only one there with a Bigma and as far as I could
tell, the only one with a Pentax. As I was trying to photograph the
birds, my attention was on them, though I couldn't help but ogle the
other photogs gear. They sure had a lot more invested in their
equipment than I did, but at least I had some decent stuff to work
with. I took several photos of the birds sitting, not very exciting.
I could tell all the other folks were waiting for a CIF (Condor In
Flight.) After what seemed like a long time, I was about to give up
and was actually putting my equipment up when one of the birds flew.
Well, I jumped around and tried to get a few shots, but just couldn't
track the birds well enough. Finally they came to rest in some pines
and we all knew they would fly again, so we got ready and sure
enough, they flew back to the cliff. During this time, one of the
other photographers, pretty sure he was a N shooter came to about 6
feet from me to prepare to shoot if they flew again. I was ready,
too, or thought I was. I had bumped up ISO to 400, but should have
gone to 800 (still afraid of VPN!) I had my Bigma mounted on my
gimbal mount, shooting mode to continuous. When the birds finally
decided to fly again, I pressed the shutter and held it, tracked the
bird best I could. My K10d went "snap, snap, snap,
snap.......snap.............snap." The guy next to me was in burst
mode, too, only his camera went "BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT." I have no
idea how many shots he got off, and I have no idea if he got any
great shots, but with his setup, I could almost bet you he did (plus
he looked more professional than I because of his photog hat and
vest.)

I learned a lot in that short segment of time. I learned that my
camera just didn't have the burst capability that the other guy's
had. I learned that I should have bumped the ISO a bit more. I was
frustrated in my tracking of the birds and the focusing ability of
my camera (maybe related to my tracking ability, maybe not.) I
learned that I should have had my fastest SD card in the camera. All
in all, considering the much smaller investment that I had made in
comparison to all those N and C shooters around me, I was pretty
satisfied with my results, but the whole experience left me yearning
for both more experience and better equipment, or at least a
different setup for BIF. Here is one of the better shots from that
episode.

Ed
Click to expand...
Ed,

Great shot given the limitation you are subject to.

I am there and I believe you may improve just a bit by having a faster card, in jpg (of course) and in manual metering mode.

I have K100D and has less worry about using iso800 as all my BIF are in 800 anyway.
Keep up with the good work.

As said before, I am not thinking about having an additional system (like Roger) as my interest is not confined to wildlife.
Birdie season is over here and I do not have to deal with it until spring

Daniel, Toronto
http://www.pbase.com/danieltong
 
D TONG said:
Typo?
I think this is meant for Vaards. I do not have a FZ20 . And I do not
have pict on dog.
I do have pict on geeses , seagulls and GBH though.
Click to expand...
Oops, sorry, my bad...was indeed meant for Vaards.
D TONG said:
Ed,

Luckily I am not a full blown wildlife shooter ,like Roger or Hung( -
Click to expand...
D TONG said:
Royce is another ex-Pentaxian switching to the dark side. It is
pretty pathetic when my lens is only 300mm and manual. I have
probably hit the glass ceiling of BIF. But I have not given up yet as
my interest in photography is quite wide. Maybe if I can refine my
BIF keeper rate? Just maybe. So far I am excited with the pict I
have got. But spring is still a few months away for birdie shooting.
Click to expand...
Daniel, you said "refine" and I think most will agree that excellence in any form of photography requires practice and study and patience, regardless of the equipment you have. Keep on shootin as much and as often as possible!

thanks,
ed
 
Adam Maas said:
Note Nikon's 300 f2 is a manual focus lens. Not reall suitable for
BiF stuff.
Click to expand...
None the less....I still want one.

Now I wonder where that Pentax 300 f2 proyotype is...stick that on a 1.7x af adapter and you get a 510mm f3.4...that will do me nicely.

neil
 
As others have said, Pentax is definitely not widely considered a great choice for BIF. It's great for many things, but very long, very fast lenses are not overly available as they are for Canon and Nikon, the de-facto choices for such photography. The catch, however, is that as high as a $5000 system sounds, that would just about cover a Canon EOS-1 BODY....they you still need to dump a few thousand into L-series long teles, and whatever lighting setup (if any) you need. Still, overall, you're more likely to find what you need there.

One often overlooked option, though, is that Pentax makes built-to-order lens models. There's quite a premium on them, but the money you'd save on the body could possibly make such lenses within your budget. The lenses, I believe run between $1500-5000 a piece (US), but would likely fall within your budget. I've heard those FA* lenses are quite spectacular, however I have no first hand experience, nor will most others on the forums.

It's probably not likely to be your final decision, but if you're dumping such a large sum of money for specialized photography, you're likely to want to look into all options, and that certainly is one of several paths you may want to consider.
 
Mousehill said:
To my limited understanding, Pentax is just as capable as any other
brand. Main difference is that Pentax can't "machine-gun" a bird in
the sky.

Click to expand...
This is such a superb shot, how did you get this angle ?

As was mentioned in an old thread by you and Darren; too bad you don’t have some decent equipment, so you could grab the good shots. Or something…

I’m getting the BBC Wildlife portfolio, with collection of material from the competition. I’ll let you know if some of your shots are in it.

The K10 was put on market as a mid level segment, the upcoming K20 is gonna be interesting to follow. As will the K1, when it is announced. But really I could just get by with a couple of K10 bodies, and be set with that. My Z-1P did 4 FPS, but I had to change film every 36 shots. Still with these limitations there were plenty of outstanding imagery in the film days anyhow. Wonder how they done it…

Regarding the fast Nikon glass discussed, I would imagine that the one in current line-up is the AF 200/2 which was thought of. I don’t know if there would be much sale in a 300/2 Pentax lens, it is still a 4.5 kg lens. With a price to match.

BTW, my BIF team got 1-1 in the Derby of Copenhagen, with 3 twenty-year-olds in the defence line-up, so very satisfactory. It has been a rough season, but things are looking up at the moment. We’ll have a friendly next summer against Liverpool, I’ll grab some shots and post at that moment.
I have little problem going for Iso 640 in those situations. 800 if I must.

--
Kind regards
Sune



“The K10D not only proves that Pentax belongs in the big league, it’s an all-star player.” Popular Photography & Imaging and American Photo. Jan 07
 
Ridge Runner said:
Oops, sorry, my bad...was indeed meant for Vaards.
Click to expand...
Here is text:
Ridge Runner said:
Daniel, while that is one method, it is a method that is not always possible, and I might even say it is "rarely" possible when trying to photograph wild creatures in action. Here again, you are using your dogs and gulls that can be attracted to a piece of bread. Where are your photos of hawks or eagles swooping down to catch prey? Where is your photo of a fox chasing down a mouse in the field? I own an FZ30 and have a few decent BIF shots, and some really good ones of gulls hovering above a handout, and a couple of my dog running full tilt across the rocks in a stream. For some reason, I just never got that shot of the great egret lifting off unexpectedly from the marsh.
Click to expand...
I agree that it is not always possible. And better tool is fast autofocus camera and fast shutter speed. But I will dissapoint you - if you do not have "photos of hawks or eagles swooping down to catch prey?"taken by fz30, then you will not have them with Mark III either. There is not so big gain from tool (ok, you need long reach in this case!) than from knowledge about birds, luckyness, patiency and good and helthy organism to be in that right place.

And I can't take photos of hawks - we have only three fish hawks in our country :D And whole area where they live is isolated - I suppose so :DD

But we have som 70% of worlds stork population (small country with 2,3 milion people). And I live near the one of the most important lakes on the bird way (When they migrates from north to south they stay on that lake for some days - it is also rather closed area for this case).
Ridge Runner said:
So, would you still buy/use an FZ20 if you had a $5K budget for a BIF camera? That is why i rarely use my FZ30 for such things, and one of the main reasons I upgraded to DSLR.
Click to expand...
If I would like to be bird watcher... I guess I would buy Mark + 600mm lens. But it is not my direction in photography (pitty - I have millions of birds around my home, but... Don't care about them so much).

Besides I know well one fellow who is taking pics of birds all the time (near my lake ;-). So - there is not so big gain from faster autofocus etc with 600mm + MARK III (my opinion). And bulkyness of system tend me to guess that really accidental meeting with "eagles swooping down to catch prey" would make better results with panasonic in hand - you can zoom into right direction, target it, and take in auto mode faster than with huge Canon combo.

I tried once to involve that fellow for girls photo session. He somehow didn't wanted and rejected. But searching his last time pics (especially for you) I just noticed that he did an experiment - how look portraits of girls with 600mm lens:

http://ak.nerealitate.lv/ak/archives/date/2007/09

;-))))

(Scroll down, there is link to the "next page" too on the very bottom. And on the right side (middle of page) his birds spam per months).

So - my specific is more like travel photography, people, city life, nature, girls... :)

But I have some experience with birds. I guess not the worst one experience here - I am quite usual guest on our lake where all these persons "live".
 
Vaards said:
I tried once to involve that fellow for girls photo session. He
somehow didn't wanted and rejected. But searching his last time pics
(especially for you) I just noticed that he did an experiment - how
look portraits of girls with 600mm lens:

http://ak.nerealitate.lv/ak/archives/date/2007/09
Click to expand...
Too bad you need a VERY large studio for the setup he uses, but the 600mm is quite a reasonable portrait lense :-))

--
--
'Best wide angle lens? Take a few steps back and look for the WoW effect.'



http://www.pentaximaging.nl
 
My impression is that the new camera from Pentax, that is to be announced late January, has stronger BIF capabilities than the current offerings from Pentax. Add to this the new DA Star telephotos that is coming next year and the answer to your question may very well be - Pentax!

But if you want the best BiF-ystem before Christmas, then Pentax may not be the no 1.
It just a matter of a few weeks...
--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo
 
Ridgerunner, I really enjoyed your story re: condors. A good verbal picture of picture takers. I do not yet have a DSLR (will be getting K10D next month), but when I was using Panasonic P&S cameras, my "keeper" ratio was greatly improved when I started using a Red Dot Sight. I don't know if or how they would work with DSLR, but you might look into that possibility.

Ken Pichon
 
Harveydad said:
Ridgerunner, I really enjoyed your story re: condors. A good verbal
picture of picture takers. I do not yet have a DSLR (will be getting
K10D next month), but when I was using Panasonic P&S cameras, my
"keeper" ratio was greatly improved when I started using a Red Dot
Sight. I don't know if or how they would work with DSLR, but you
might look into that possibility.

Ken Pichon
Click to expand...
Ken, thank you for your comments. I had actually made reference to this very early in this thread. I have been interested in this arrangement ever since I heard about it, but have not tried it. I don't see why the concept would not work well for dslr's. Are you using the Xtend-a-Sight adapter or have you come up with some type of mounting device of your own?

Seems to me that Wacky Roger (the hotel) might be using a red dot setup with his K10d/Bushhawk/Bigma setup, I have asked him in his latest thread.

I have noticed that many people on this forum have come to Pentax from Panasonic, myself included. They are totally excellent cameras (the Leica lenses don't hurt!) Ironically, I probably miss more shots now than I did when using the FZ30, even though focusing is faster and IQ of the K10d is way better, I seem to have the wrong lens on at the wrong time. I suppose the K10d with the 18-250 lens would be as close as you can come to the flexibility of the super-zoom Lumiix cams, with faster AF and better IQ.

regards,
Ed
 
Vaards said:
I agree that it is not always possible. And better tool is fast
autofocus camera and fast shutter speed. But I will dissapoint you -
if you do not have "photos of hawks or eagles swooping down to catch
prey?"taken by fz30, then you will not have them with Mark III
either. There is not so big gain from tool (ok, you need long reach
in this case!) than from knowledge about birds, luckyness, patiency
and good and helthy organism to be in that right place.
Click to expand...
You are so right, and any tool, hammer, drill, camera, is only as good as the user's knowledge and willingness to learn. I've done many projects with substandard tools and they came out fine because I was able to use my own abilities to compensate for the shortcomings of the tools, though at times this can be very frustrating, or at the least, time-consuming. So I still believe that better tools will yield better results and at some point, when interest and ability come together, the necessity of proper tools becomes paramount to producing an excellent end result.
Vaards said:
And I can't take photos of hawks - we have only three fish hawks in
our country :D And whole area where they live is isolated - I suppose
so :DD
Click to expand...
Too bad!
Vaards said:
But we have som 70% of worlds stork population (small country with
2,3 milion people).
Click to expand...
More storks than people...I could go for that. :D
Vaards said:
If I would like to be bird watcher... I guess I would buy Mark +
600mm lens. But it is not my direction in photography (pitty - I have
millions of birds around my home, but... Don't care about them so
much).
Click to expand...
And again, my point about interest. Thank goodness we all have different interests. I think the world might get quite enough of BIF photos if we all shared that passion.
Vaards said:
autofocus etc with 600mm + MARK III (my opinion). And bulkyness of
system tend me to guess that really accidental meeting with "eagles
swooping down to catch prey" would make better results with panasonic
in hand - you can zoom into right direction, target it, and take in
auto mode faster than with huge Canon combo.
Click to expand...
I have to admit, once again, that I have probably missed more shots with my K10d than I did with my Lumix FZ-30, but mostly because I had the wrong lens on the camera and couldn't change it fast enough. I expect that technology will increase to the point that the super zoom cameras will give as good as results as a MKIII/600 combo. Hard to imagine that right now, but think back to the days of 3 megapixel 3x zooms--they were cutting edge and not cheap.
Vaards said:
I tried once to involve that fellow for girls photo session. He
somehow didn't wanted and rejected. But searching his last time pics
(especially for you) I just noticed that he did an experiment - how
look portraits of girls with 600mm lens:

http://ak.nerealitate.lv/ak/archives/date/2007/09
Click to expand...
I checked out his site and noticed that he had dogs and gulls, too! :D
Vaards said:
So - my specific is more like travel photography, people, city life,
nature, girls... :)
Click to expand...
And my interests are 3 of the 5 you mention, I'll let you guess which ones. ;> )

regards,
Ed
 
I am not sure what the best camera is for bird flight shots as I haven’t used all of them but I can say that I have been VERY pleased with the Canon 40D and both the EF 400mm f/5.6L USM and the EF 500mm f/4L IS USM. Obviously the 500 takes up your entire budget plus some but the 40D and 400 come in far below your budget and get the same great results as long as you can get closer to your subjects. The 400 is also the easier of the two lenses to use.

Here are a few of my recent flight shots taken with the 40D:















































Greg

--



http://www.pbase.com/dadas115/
 
Vaards said:
if you do not have "photos of hawks or eagles swooping down to catch
prey?"taken by fz30, then you will not have them with Mark III
either. There is not so big gain from tool (ok, you need long reach
in this case!) than from knowledge about birds, luckyness, patiency
and good and helthy organism to be in that right place.
Click to expand...
I tend to disagree. I have used many different models of cameras and lenses to take photos of flying birds and I have found that better gear does make it easier to get good results. I know that if I am going to go out and spend my time and money seeking out flying birds to photograph I would much rather have a 40D or 1-series Canon… than I would something like the FZ30 or whatever other all in one camera. I generally work hard for my opportunities at various birds and when they come along I like to have the best tool I can (within reason) to maximize those opportunities. Knowledge about birds... is important but so is the gear.

Greg

--



http://www.pbase.com/dadas115/
 
I used the Photosolve mount on all my P&S......Go to Photoslolve.com for more info.

One of Phil's mounts plus a cheap (less than $10) Daisy RDS from Walmart fills the bill, and helps a lot with BIFs.

Ken Pichon
 
Really, really nice photos, Greg. I think you have illustrated some of the points made in this thread very well.

1.You have obviously spent a lot of time perfecting your technique, regardless of the camera used.

2. You have a passion for taking this type of photograph, and that passion necessitates an understanding of the birds themselves, making the effort to "be there," and being prepared to press the shutter release when all of that knowledge and hard work comes together.

3. Equipment DOES matter. Even if you could consistently get those stop-action shots with a Panasonic (or any other P&S) the image quality would be nowhere near what you are getting because of the high shutter speeds that necessitate higher ISO's.

4. Great equipment can be had with a budget in mind. (I only wish I had a $5k budget for camera and lens!)

I have a question about your technique, though. Are you using a tripod, a gimbal mount, Bushhawk, or any other support or tracking aid, or are some or all of these handheld? Are you shooting from a boat or other vehicle, wading, crawling on your belly, or just sitting around in a camp chair waiting for the birds to fly by?

All your shots are great, hard to pick my fave...maybe the low-flying cormorant, maybe the tern with its breakfast.

Thanks for posting these.
Ed
 
Harveydad said:
I used the Photosolve mount on all my P&S......Go to Photoslolve.com
for more info.
One of Phil's mounts plus a cheap (less than $10) Daisy RDS from
Walmart fills the bill, and helps a lot with BIFs.

Ken Pichon
Click to expand...
Wonder what problems parallax might cause using longer lenses...

ed
 
Thanks,

All of these were shot hand-held (I very rarely use a tripod or monopod and when I do it is when I am waiting for a bird to come to a particular spot like a water feature or something similar). My technique generally involves walking around in the habitat and just seeing whatever I can see. I do sometimes take shots from my car but I find it rather difficult to get flying shots from the car so almost all of the car shots are of static birds. A lot of the fun for me is actually being out in nature so the idea of sitting in a chair at a feeder… doesn’t seem very interesting to me.

Greg

--



http://www.pbase.com/dadas115/
 
Greg, those are all marvelous shots! You have a magic touch. I hope I can do something half as good when I get my K10D next month. I'm glad you posetd them.

Ken Pichon
 
Hi Greg,

What great pictures and outstanding gallery you have. Always welcome in these tech discussions, to see the actual pictures. Do you really shoot handheld with your 500/4 ? Not only do you have a dream kit of gear, but also skill to use it.

What bird is this one :
PeaceFrog said:
Click to expand...
And what aperture did you use for this shot :
http://www.pbase.com/dadas115/image/79926728

Thanks for your input in the thread.
Always great when people get to follow their passion

--
Kind regards
Sune



“The K10D not only proves that Pentax belongs in the big league, it’s an all-star player.” Popular Photography & Imaging and American Photo. Jan 07
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top