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Gee what's missing from this article... could it be SONY!!

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Gary Eickmeier said:
If it is an ad disguising itself as an article, then it should put on
all the features of an article. But I don't see how it can be an ad
for those cameras; manufacturers don't advertise with each other's
cameras. If it is an ad for B&H alone, then it is either stupid or
short-sighted to leave out a major player in the market they are
pushing.
Click to expand...
B&H is really, really doing well for a stupid, short sighted company. If you ever in NYC go to their store, its an amazing place. I'll even bet you that they will have in stock more Sony bodies and lenses than any other camera store.

Camera stores will continue to decide how to market their inventory on their own based on whatever factors are important to them. B&H has done pretty well so far w/o consulting us on how to market their inventory. I'll make you another bet that they will continue to do so w/o consulting us in the future too.

Harry
--
http://behret.smugmug.com

'if you ain't having fun, you ain't doing it right'
 
Gary Eickmeier said:
Harry Behret said:
I read articles in my newspapers, I read articles in mgazines, I read
articles online.
Now when I get an e-mail from B&H, Adorama, Ritz, etc they are ads.
Have you ever seen an e-mail from a camera store give a camera bad
review? Any e-mail I get from a store is advertising. They may
disguise it to look like an article but its advertising.

I just delete them any give them even less consideration than I would
to a camera review in Popphoto.
Click to expand...
If it is an ad disguising itself as an article, then it should put on
all the features of an article. But I don't see how it can be an ad
for those cameras; manufacturers don't advertise with each other's
cameras. If it is an ad for B&H alone, then it is either stupid or
short-sighted to leave out a major player in the market they are
pushing.

Gary Eickmeier
Click to expand...
How do you know that they are 'pushing' Sony? Perhaps the other camera companies are offering incentives to the store or sales clerk to get the store to 'push' their equipment, but Sony isn't.

Have you ever worked in sales? I have been in sales for most of my adult life. At one point over 25 years ago, I sold cars, a Chevy dealership. We carried all the of the different models, from the economobile to the high end sports cars. Most of the sales people didn't spend a whole lot of time pushing the economy car because the commission was only $50 per vehicle. In the same amount of time, it took to sell the economy car and do the paper work and get the car off the lot, I could sell the mid-range car and make $500 commission. Only when a customer specifically asked for the economobile did I try and sell it.

The same thing applies to camera sales. If a retailer is being offered incentives to sell more of a particular brand of camera, they are going to try and get that incentive. It could be that the retailer, once they buy/sell X amount of a camera model will get an additional 3% rebate from the camera maker. In a business where competition may drive a retailer to work on small margins, an additional 3% is a big deal.

Same thing with the sales clerks. Have you ever walked into a camera store and asked to see a particular camera, but the clerk tries to steer you to another brand? Odds are that the camera they are trying to steer you to, is one where they are getting a spiff from a manufacturer, perhaps $15 a camera. If the clerk is being paid $10/hr, with the $15 spiff, they end up making $25. He will make more money, and since there are only so many hours in a day, they'll try and sell the camera that can make them more money!!!

No one here knows, what, if any, incentives Sony is offering to the retailer or sales people. If Sony isn't offering any, then the retailer may be trying to sent them a message- Get with the program and come up with some promo money. B&H may have Sony on hand, just so they can say they offer a complete line of cameras. They'll sell you one if you ask, but they aren't going to spend time and money pushing it.

Money talks. It opens many doors.
 
Your example covered several aspects of product promotion quite well. I've been in sales/marketing for the past 30 years and at the OEM side of things. Generally most people do not know or care how a product is marketed what is involved and how it does affect their purchasing decisions.

I'm often asked to participate in a distributors catalogue advertising programs or trade shows. A distributor buys only $10k of my product a year at a gross margin of 20% = $2k GM. For a 1/4 page add he asks $2k, for a 1/2 page $4k and a full page $8k. Even nominal participation will absorb all my gross profit for the entire year, let alone NET$. Now multiply that by the several hundreds of outlets that redistribute my products and the implications became apparent. His local area trade show charges us many $k's just for table floor space rental of which he is making some profit on too. The end result is that most of these program participations are ignored due to the very high costs and very low returns. When we choose not to participate in these distributor initiatives his usual reaction is one of surprise and then resentment, which now means even lower focus of my products by his sales representatives.

Sony is a big company with deep pockets, sure enough. There would be some subsidizing initially, but it's limited. Every company division is operated as profit generating centres. Why do you think Konica dumped Minolta photo....
--
See my stuff: http://stv.smugmug.com/
Thisisaseemycatdogsquirrelpigeonseagullduckfreezone!

SONY-A700/VG, 11-18DT, CZ-1680DT, SAL-70200-SSMG, SAL-14TC:APOD, 50:1.7, 5600:HSD {17-35:2.8D, 28-75:2.8D, 24-105D, 100-300APO}
 
Stv said:
Your example covered several aspects of product promotion quite well.
I've been in sales/marketing for the past 30 years and at the OEM
side of things. Generally most people do not know or care how a
product is marketed what is involved and how it does affect their
purchasing decisions.
I'm often asked to participate in a distributors catalogue
advertising programs or trade shows. A distributor buys only $10k of
my product a year at a gross margin of 20% = $2k GM. For a 1/4 page
add he asks $2k, for a 1/2 page $4k and a full page $8k. Even nominal
participation will absorb all my gross profit for the entire year,
let alone NET$. Now multiply that by the several hundreds of outlets
that redistribute my products and the implications became apparent.
His local area trade show charges us many $k's just for table floor
space rental of which he is making some profit on too. The end result
is that most of these program participations are ignored due to the
very high costs and very low returns. When we choose not to
participate in these distributor initiatives his usual reaction is
one of surprise and then resentment, which now means even lower focus
of my products by his sales representatives.
Sony is a big company with deep pockets, sure enough. There would be
some subsidizing initially, but it's limited. Every company division
is operated as profit generating centres. Why do you think Konica
dumped Minolta photo....
--
See my stuff: http://stv.smugmug.com/
Thisisaseemycatdogsquirrelpigeonseagullduckfreezone!

SONY-A700/VG, 11-18DT, CZ-1680DT, SAL-70200-SSMG, SAL-14TC:APOD,
50:1.7, 5600:HSD {17-35:2.8D, 28-75:2.8D, 24-105D, 100-300APO}
Click to expand...
I understand where you're coming from. I deal with a retailer who thinks that co-op money grows on trees. The charge the vendor about $800 for an ad slot. This is fine if you sell high priced items that sells like hot cakes, but if you're selling inexpensive items, like a set of headphones that retailss for $1.99, and have a wholesale price about half of that, you have to sell an awful lot of them to come up with the money. In the electronic business, most companies offer 3% of net purchases for co-op, so in the about example, each piece would give the retailer 3 cents for each set that they buy. To generate the $800, the retailer has to buy 26,666 units.

But getting back to the B&H issue- I was thinking last night that perhaps there is another reason, B&H didn't mention Sony. Sony is the only 'camera' company that has their own retail stores, the Sony Style shops. I inputted the address of the Sony Style store and B&H in Microsoft Street and Trips to get driving directions. According to the results the two stores are a 2.2 mile drive apart. (Less, as the crow flies.) Maybe, B&H isn't quite happy that they have to compete against Sony. Just as mom and pop camera stores don't like customers who come in asking a lot of questions about a camera, and then head off to a big box store to buy the camera. B&H may not like having to promote a camera that a customer may want to buy directly from Sony.
 
cyainparadise said:
I was thinking last night that
perhaps there is another reason, B&H didn't mention Sony. Sony is the
only 'camera' company that has their own retail stores, the Sony
Style shops. I inputted the address of the Sony Style store and B&H
in Microsoft Street and Trips to get driving directions. According to
the results the two stores are a 2.2 mile drive apart. (Less, as the
crow flies.) Maybe, B&H isn't quite happy that they have to compete
against Sony. Just as mom and pop camera stores don't like customers
who come in asking a lot of questions about a camera, and then head
off to a big box store to buy the camera. B&H may not like having to
promote a camera that a customer may want to buy directly from Sony.
Click to expand...
That's a credible explanation. If so, it shows that B&H don't realize how uninformed Sony Store employees are. Few know anything about the cameras they sell, and the Sony Stores almost never discount.

A more likely scenario for B&H to consider is that someone will go into a Sony Store to buy a Bravia television or a PlayStation, see the DSLRs, and end up going to B&H for an explanation and comparison to other cameras.
 
It is very sad that you haven’t included any of the Sony’s amazing DSLRs in this article:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/find/newsLetter/DSLR-Holiday-Roundup.jsp

I bought quite a few KM (now Sony) lenses and other pieces of equipment from you.

Are you now making a fool of myself and other Sony users by saying Sony is so bad that you are not even going to include it in an overview?

I do think that my A700 is amazing and that with my Zeiss and Minolta lenses I have the most capable amateur mount on the market.
I will not shop from BH unless you correct this.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rogic
 
They got back to me within minutes!
I apologize if this was already posted - but here is the response:
novak977 said:
Hi,
It is very sad that you haven't included any of the Sony's amazing
DSLRs in this article:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/find/newsLetter/DSLR-Holiday-Roundup.jsp
I bought quite a few KM (now Sony) lenses and other pieces of equipment
from you.
Are you now making a fool of myself and other Sony users by saying Sony
is so bad that you are not even going to include it in an overview?
I do think that my A700 is amazing and that with my Zeiss and Minolta
lenses I have the most capable amateur mount on the market.
I will not shop from BH unless you correct this.
Cheers,
novak
Click to expand...
Thank you for your feedback and curiosity about our recent e-mail marketing newsletter. We appreciate your business and the brand-loyalty which prompted your e-mail.

There numerous reasons why any product or brand would be included or excluded from any marketing individual campaign. Some of these (in no particular order) might include:
  • The current prices, and possible or anticipated price fluctuations expected for the near future;
  • Customer interest, which could be either that customer interest is so low additional advertising is an unwise investment or that it's already so high that additional advertising in unnecessary;
  • Product availability now, but more importantly in the near future if an advertising campaign results in a substantial increase in consumer orders.
B&H has always been committed to customer satisfaction and I have said this over and over and over again in one forum or another -- we don't care WHAT you buy as long as you're buying what you want and as long as you're buying the product(s) you'll be happy with. We certainly care WHERE you buy, but we don't take sides in the Sony-Nikon-Canon-ETC debate, except as it might relate to an individual customer's specific shopping priorities

We're committed to customer satisfaction and will ALWAYS do everything we reasonably are able to do to ensure the widest possible selection at the most affordable possible prices. Thanks again for your inquiry and our best wishes for the holidays.

-- -

regards,
Henry Posner
Director of Corporate Communications
B&H Photo-Video, and Pro-Audio
http://www.bhphotovideo.com
 
novak977 said:
Are you now making a fool of myself and other Sony users by saying
Sony is so bad that you are not even going to include it in an
overview?
Click to expand...
Just a usage note - you are the only one who can make a fool of yourself. You should say "Are you now making a fool of me and other Sony users..."

Gary Eickmeier
 
cyainparadise said:
But getting back to the B&H issue- I was thinking last night that
perhaps there is another reason, B&H didn't mention Sony. Sony is the
only 'camera' company that has their own retail stores, the Sony
Style shops. I inputted the address of the Sony Style store and B&H
in Microsoft Street and Trips to get driving directions. According to
the results the two stores are a 2.2 mile drive apart. (Less, as the
crow flies.) Maybe, B&H isn't quite happy that they have to compete
against Sony. Just as mom and pop camera stores don't like customers
who come in asking a lot of questions about a camera, and then head
off to a big box store to buy the camera. B&H may not like having to
promote a camera that a customer may want to buy directly from Sony.
Click to expand...
I have no doubt that SONY Retail Stores are a real pain in the @ss for ALL of their camera sales agents. In my experience, most distributors despises ANY manufacturer that also retails, distributes or sells their products directly to the end user and to a sub-distribution/retail channel network simultaneously. Don't forget, Sony also sells on line too.

Distributors ASSume they have a Gawd given right to exclusivity of a product whether they are selling some or none, even using your product to lock out competition and sell other products they favour in preference!

It looks like a power-play is in motion by B&H to send a very strong message to Sony that it is not pleased with the "current" relationship, whatever the reason or hidden agenda may be.

--
See my stuff: http://stv.smugmug.com/
Thisisaseemycatdogsquirrelpigeonseagullduckfreezone!

SONY-A700/VG, 11-18DT, CZ-1680DT, SAL-70200-SSMG, SAL-14TC:APOD, 50:1.7, 5600:HSD {17-35:2.8D, 28-75:2.8D, 24-105D, 100-300APO}
 
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