Big Ga
Forum Pro
My D70s and SLRn both have a mechanical switch that quickly and easily allows you to isolate the live pad if you want it off. A neat arrangement.
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Checked out The New E3
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Big Ga
Forum Pro
I actually did a whole load of shooting today with the E3 and I was making a mental note of what did what and trying to learn my way around it by touch.
There were things like the buttons under the screen are a bit 'obscured' as the screen sticks out a bit (but then maybe you don't need to press these in a hurry).
I'm most peeved about the Fn button for Af though, but that's because I've perfected the 'ball of the thumb to AF on the AEL' with the E1 and I just can't do this with the E3 :-(
There were things like the buttons under the screen are a bit 'obscured' as the screen sticks out a bit (but then maybe you don't need to press these in a hurry).
I'm most peeved about the Fn button for Af though, but that's because I've perfected the 'ball of the thumb to AF on the AEL' with the E1 and I just can't do this with the E3 :-(
Louis_Dobson
Forum Pro
A lot of people complaining about the focus point selection think they have to hold the button while rotating a wheel, which I understand is not the case.
I don't feel touching a button once and then using the pad sounds very onerous, and is very in line with the post E1 Oly control system (which is what I'm used to).
Press Button Once Move Pad has been the system with most control functions since the E500.
I can see this might take a bit of getting used to if you have grown into the E1 Hold Button Rotate Wheel arrangement, but I think people DO need to get used to it before condemning it.
It is notable that most NON E1 shooters doing hands on previews loved it.
Of course, since Oly haven't deigned to deliver my XXXXing camera yet, I can't comment from personal experience.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
I don't feel touching a button once and then using the pad sounds very onerous, and is very in line with the post E1 Oly control system (which is what I'm used to).
Press Button Once Move Pad has been the system with most control functions since the E500.
I can see this might take a bit of getting used to if you have grown into the E1 Hold Button Rotate Wheel arrangement, but I think people DO need to get used to it before condemning it.
It is notable that most NON E1 shooters doing hands on previews loved it.
Of course, since Oly haven't deigned to deliver my XXXXing camera yet, I can't comment from personal experience.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
Louis_Dobson
Forum Pro
I'll be able to comment from an EXX0 user's perspective soon. I hope. The buggers.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
Dafydd
Active member
I've only handled the E-3 at the recent photo fair in Stockholm, but I was surprised how uncomfortable the thumb grip was and how far to the right the shutter release was.
Dafydd
OCULUS NY
Leading Member
Thanks for the good observations. I've had mine for two days and don't like the button arrangement either, and I have long fingers.
Between us girls, I used the flip-viewer to take a self-portrait today, and guess what: the remote's cable (and transformer/capacitor/black can)? perfectly block the view from out front of the camera. Guess I'll have to dig out the old wireless one.
Speaking of wireless, you ought to try the FL 50R--it's very slick. Haven't really used it yet, but seems destined for convenience.
And I'm not kidding about that Summarit...FYI, the E-3 trumped an M8 on my "to buy" list.
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Ray Hull
OCULUS NY
'We nevah, evah do nuthin 'nice and easy'.' Tina Turner
Between us girls, I used the flip-viewer to take a self-portrait today, and guess what: the remote's cable (and transformer/capacitor/black can)? perfectly block the view from out front of the camera. Guess I'll have to dig out the old wireless one.
Speaking of wireless, you ought to try the FL 50R--it's very slick. Haven't really used it yet, but seems destined for convenience.
And I'm not kidding about that Summarit...FYI, the E-3 trumped an M8 on my "to buy" list.
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Ray Hull
OCULUS NY
'We nevah, evah do nuthin 'nice and easy'.' Tina Turner
Kyle Jones
Senior Member
... focus point selection and here's why: The E-3's C-AF system does not, as far as I've been able to determine, have the tracking logic that Canon and Nikon cameras have that permit them to hand off focus among any of the focus points to track a subject that's moving around the frame. So if I change my mind about how to compose a subject that's on the move I need to manually switch to another focus point quickly. That means direct access via a wheel or (less preferably) the arrow pad.
Make it optional for those who don't want it. This sound like a change that could be made in firmware. I hope someone at Olympus is listening.
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Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/kyle_jones/
Make it optional for those who don't want it. This sound like a change that could be made in firmware. I hope someone at Olympus is listening.
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Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/kyle_jones/
Kyle Jones
Senior Member
... and I'm glad you picked up on that. The E-3 doesn't seem any worse than the Canon cameras I already use. But the fact that I still can't operate those cameras without looking at them despite 18 months of use ought to say something about the advisability of aping Canon's UI. One function per button, please.
I've no doubt I can get used to the E-3, that is, a few months from now I won't be as clumsy using the camera as I am now. But the benefits of some of the design changes between the E-3 and the E-1 elude me.
Example: the C-S-M switch that the E-1 has to switch between focusing modes is gone. On the E-3 there's a button on the left shoulder on the camera to press and you have to spin the back wheel to change focusing modes. With my street photography I'm constantly switching between shooting moving and stationary targets, so I change focusing modes frequently. With the E-1, if you were using one of the long pro lenses you could lock focus with the focus stop button near the front of the lens. Or if you were using a lens with no stop buttons, the C-S-M switch was right there where your thumb or index finger could reach it from your natural left hand position under the lens mount. With the E-3 you have to move your left hand from under the lens so you can get your thumb up to the camera shoulder where the button is.
Why is this better?
If anything the buttons the E-1 has on its left shoulder should have been moved down near the C-S-M switch so they would be similarly handy. Instead Olympus did the opposite thing, and I don't understand why.
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Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/kyle_jones/
I've no doubt I can get used to the E-3, that is, a few months from now I won't be as clumsy using the camera as I am now. But the benefits of some of the design changes between the E-3 and the E-1 elude me.
Example: the C-S-M switch that the E-1 has to switch between focusing modes is gone. On the E-3 there's a button on the left shoulder on the camera to press and you have to spin the back wheel to change focusing modes. With my street photography I'm constantly switching between shooting moving and stationary targets, so I change focusing modes frequently. With the E-1, if you were using one of the long pro lenses you could lock focus with the focus stop button near the front of the lens. Or if you were using a lens with no stop buttons, the C-S-M switch was right there where your thumb or index finger could reach it from your natural left hand position under the lens mount. With the E-3 you have to move your left hand from under the lens so you can get your thumb up to the camera shoulder where the button is.
Why is this better?
If anything the buttons the E-1 has on its left shoulder should have been moved down near the C-S-M switch so they would be similarly handy. Instead Olympus did the opposite thing, and I don't understand why.
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Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/kyle_jones/
D
Dave Lewis
Guest
Honestly is there any reason someone can't come with a truly small DSLR. The XTi and Pentax k100D and the Nikon D40 and the E410 are just fine, but the potential is there for something much smaller. I'll probably buy the E410, because of its small size and the two excellent small zooms that come with it, but I'll still be longing for a truly small camera. The 4/3 format is being short changed not to have a really small entry with it.
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Dave Lewis
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Dave Lewis
Ross
Veteran Member
There is a button timing option on the E-3, so that you can toggle on to a button for 3,5 or 8 second, to eleiminate holding the button while twirling. I haven't tried the focus point button to see if it is affected.
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Bob Ross
http://www.pbase.com/rossrtx
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Bob Ross
http://www.pbase.com/rossrtx
Pete_CSCS
Senior Member
Cell phones have reached the point where they can make them smaller than most people want them. If they are too small, then holding them up to the mouth/ear won't 'feel right' to most people.
With cameras too if they are designed for the 'average' adult hand, there will be a point where smaller isn't better. Many small P&Ss are designed to look like DSLRs and if you try to hold them the same way as an SLR (cradled in the left hand) they can feel awkward if too small. Lighter is another thing.
But how is this?
Then check out this.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=24337691
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Stay Well,
Pete K.
Louis_Dobson
Forum Pro
I heard (no idea if true or not) the AF sensor itself has "hidden" points precisely to aid the hand off logic, so perhaps they just ran out of time and we'll see improved firmware. I'm still of the opinion this camera was developed in a big hurry, and the apparent marked difference between v0.9 and v1.0 would seem to support this.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
Louis_Dobson
Forum Pro
that the CSM switch got moved by accident. I'd be with you on this actually - I LIKE three position visible switches.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
Louis_Dobson
Forum Pro
I was talking to the guy at the local shop up here again last night, and he believes that Olympus is still in their infancy stage when it comes to developing these DSLRs. He believes that they are not ready to be compared to Nikon or Canon, evenly, across the board yet. There are still subtle advancements and advantages that Nikon and Canon have. He does feel that Olympus will end up as a strong number 3 player though.
He believes that the next E4 or E5 will bring some really nice improvements, but he also added that by then Nikon and Canon will also have leaped light years ahead too. He also shares my wants/needs/desire for fast lenses.
I may make one more stop there before heading back to Maryland to pick up a 85mm f/1.8 ;-)
The good thing about Nikon is from my D70, to my F100, to a D200, and back to an olf F5 the cameras layout is basically the same. A few buttons have changed positions, but it's basically the same camera.
I fully expect to be using a D3 right out of the box. In fact, I already have the extra D3 battery charged and waiting.
SIGNATURE: This is a picture I did not take of a tall, greying man with crooked teeth whom I've encountered three times while photographing downtown, and each time, he's approached me quickly from the front, with a long stride, and each time he's leaned toward me and said the exact same thing 'OLD ONES ARE BETTER' while palming his ancient brass Leica, opening his hand enough to show me what's there, but not enough really showing-off!' (An Unknown Leica Street Photographer)
He believes that the next E4 or E5 will bring some really nice improvements, but he also added that by then Nikon and Canon will also have leaped light years ahead too. He also shares my wants/needs/desire for fast lenses.
I may make one more stop there before heading back to Maryland to pick up a 85mm f/1.8 ;-)
The good thing about Nikon is from my D70, to my F100, to a D200, and back to an olf F5 the cameras layout is basically the same. A few buttons have changed positions, but it's basically the same camera.
I fully expect to be using a D3 right out of the box. In fact, I already have the extra D3 battery charged and waiting.
--... my opinion of the camera after a week of using it. The buttons
are a complete disaster. It's as if Olympus fired everyone
associated with the E-1's ergonomics, or they all left the company in
disgust. With regard to the focus point selection, did they consult
with anyone who actually uses changes focus points often? I really
don't understand what happened here.
The E-3's AF system is faster, but the tracking logic so far seems as
antiquated as the system in all the other E-system cameras I've used.
It's not comparable in smarts to Canon 30D's AF, let alone the big
two's pro cameras.
My dad shoots Nikon. As with many other things he's said, I should
have listened.
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Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/kyle_jones/
SIGNATURE: This is a picture I did not take of a tall, greying man with crooked teeth whom I've encountered three times while photographing downtown, and each time, he's approached me quickly from the front, with a long stride, and each time he's leaned toward me and said the exact same thing 'OLD ONES ARE BETTER' while palming his ancient brass Leica, opening his hand enough to show me what's there, but not enough really showing-off!' (An Unknown Leica Street Photographer)
Dave Bennett
Senior Member
Who buys an "across the board"? A camera dealer may care about the existence of a full DSLR line, lenses and accessories for every conceivable application, etc., but the typical camera buyer cares only about what he or she needs. I doubt if Olympus has any intention of competing with Nikon and Canon for every market segment--it doesn't have to, just as BMW doesn't has to compete with General Motors for every market segment.
The camera sales person used to work for Olympus, and still has good rapport with Olympus.
The salesman stated his opinon concerning Olympus's future based on the question I asked him, which was--"How do you think the E-3 will compete with the D-300?"
There was no mention of an A-typical camera buyer in our conversation as it pertained to the question I asked him; however, later, after he answered my question, he did say "I believe Olympus is a good system for someone just starting out in photography."
This is his opinion. Not only does he run this local shop, but he also shoots as a Pro photographer for the Philadelphia eagles. He also used to be an Olympus Employee for ten years or so.
Where are your credentials, because I've never heard of you?
SIGNATURE: This is a picture I did not take of a tall, greying man with crooked teeth whom I've encountered three times while photographing downtown, and each time, he's approached me quickly from the front, with a long stride, and each time he's leaned toward me and said the exact same thing 'OLD ONES ARE BETTER' while palming his ancient brass Leica, opening his hand enough to show me what's there, but not enough really showing-off!' (An Unknown Leica Street Photographer)
The salesman stated his opinon concerning Olympus's future based on the question I asked him, which was--"How do you think the E-3 will compete with the D-300?"
There was no mention of an A-typical camera buyer in our conversation as it pertained to the question I asked him; however, later, after he answered my question, he did say "I believe Olympus is a good system for someone just starting out in photography."
This is his opinion. Not only does he run this local shop, but he also shoots as a Pro photographer for the Philadelphia eagles. He also used to be an Olympus Employee for ten years or so.
Where are your credentials, because I've never heard of you?
--
SIGNATURE: This is a picture I did not take of a tall, greying man with crooked teeth whom I've encountered three times while photographing downtown, and each time, he's approached me quickly from the front, with a long stride, and each time he's leaned toward me and said the exact same thing 'OLD ONES ARE BETTER' while palming his ancient brass Leica, opening his hand enough to show me what's there, but not enough really showing-off!' (An Unknown Leica Street Photographer)
Stroudsburg Foto
724 Main Street
Around 13 miles from the resort areas.
SIGNATURE: This is a picture I did not take of a tall, greying man with crooked teeth whom I've encountered three times while photographing downtown, and each time, he's approached me quickly from the front, with a long stride, and each time he's leaned toward me and said the exact same thing 'OLD ONES ARE BETTER' while palming his ancient brass Leica, opening his hand enough to show me what's there, but not enough really showing-off!' (An Unknown Leica Street Photographer)
724 Main Street
Around 13 miles from the resort areas.
--
SIGNATURE: This is a picture I did not take of a tall, greying man with crooked teeth whom I've encountered three times while photographing downtown, and each time, he's approached me quickly from the front, with a long stride, and each time he's leaned toward me and said the exact same thing 'OLD ONES ARE BETTER' while palming his ancient brass Leica, opening his hand enough to show me what's there, but not enough really showing-off!' (An Unknown Leica Street Photographer)
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