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Canon's alternative to Nikon Creative Lighting System?

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Henrikw

Henrikw

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It tells you in that same post about the Canon Alternative using a 580EX,550EX or ST-E2 as the Master.
 
Sorry - didn't check the whole article:)
Will be a quite expensive setup - 3x580EX: £900 + flash stands/umbrellas
Will any older Canon flashes work, or is it possible to do a Sigma setup?

--
http://www.pbase.com/winther1
 
430EX, 420EX, 550EX and 580EX all support E-TTL II.. it's not cheap for any situation, including CLS.

background, hair light, etc doesn't have to be high guide number flashes, so the 420/430 can work fine there, but your main front flashes should probably be the 580/550.

also keep in mind that MOST of canon's flashes are transister pack upgradable which cuts the recycle time in half - very important. nikon's are not. the little sb-200's that they rave about in that article look neat and cool - but have a 7 second full pop recycle time and no way of speeding that up.
 
the Canon 420EX,430EX and some Sigma's units will work just fine as slaves.
Joe:)
 
rrcphoto said:
nikon's are not.
Click to expand...
What all of them !

You mean Nikon users can no longer use the SD-8a, SD-7 or SK-6 with their SB-800s anymore? Oh NO!

Never mind though. At least they can still use the optional SD-800 quick recycling battery pack which Nikon include with every unit.
 
You don't have to have a 580EX... you can use mutilple 500DG Supers, or the 530DG supers... etc...

In the past the Sigma flashes that supported it, would do wireless flash with other Canon flashes... I've not read up on it much lately, but I would expect it to work...

The 500DG Super, does not do ETTL-II, only ETTL-I.. but I really don't think this is a treuely significant issue, but then I've not really tried to fully understand the differences between E-TTL II and/or I.
Henrikw said:
AJMJ said:
the Canon 420EX,430EX and some Sigma's units will work just fine as
slaves.
Joe:)
Click to expand...
So does Sigma and Canon flashes communicate?
I currently have a Sigma EF-500 DG Super. If I buy another + a 580EX
as master, will it work?

--
http://www.pbase.com/winther1
Click to expand...
 
rrcphoto said:
430EX, 420EX, 550EX and 580EX all support E-TTL II.. it's not cheap
for any situation, including CLS.

background, hair light, etc doesn't have to be high guide number
flashes, so the 420/430 can work fine there, but your main front
flashes should probably be the 580/550.

also keep in mind that MOST of canon's flashes are transister pack
upgradable which cuts the recycle time in half - very important.
nikon's are not. the little sb-200's that they rave about in that
article look neat and cool - but have a 7 second full pop recycle
time and no way of speeding that up.
Click to expand...
The Canon system is alot more money than the Nikon system, here is a senario where you can get (2) SB-800 and (1) SB-600 for $345 less than (2) 580EX and (1) 430EX. and another senario with (3) SB-800 for $335 less than (3) 580EX. Part of the diferences is the fact that Nikon provides wireless capability into the camera body of camareas such as the D70/80/200/300 and for that ability on the Canon bodies you have to purchase a ST-E2 Transmitter. Also the (3) SB-800 kts system all come with a 5th battery pack and all capable of additonal battery packs.

-------------------------------------------------
(3) Nikon SB-800 Speedlight i-TTL
Total Price: $ 944.85
--------------------------------------------------
or
--------------------------------------------------
(2) 580EX II Speedlite E-TTL II
(1) ST-E2 Transmitter Kit
Price: $ 919.95 (B&H Kit price)
(1) 580EX II Speedlite E-TTL II
Price: $ 359.95
Total Price: $1,279.90
-----------------------------------------------------
or
--------------------------------------------------
(2) Nikon SB-800 Speedlight i-TTL
Price: $ 629.90
(1) Nikon SB-600 Speedlight i-TTL
Price: $ 184.95
Total Price: $814.85
--------------------------------------------------
or
--------------------------------------------------
(2) 580EX II Speedlite E-TTL II
(1) ST-E2 Transmitter Kit
Price: $ 919.95 (B&H Kit price)
(1) 430EX Speedlite E-TTL II
Price: $ 240.00
Total Price: $1,159.95
--------------------------------------------------

http://nickmjr.smugmug.com/
Nick M
 
Canon 1-controller + 3-slave flash option.

(1) ST-E2 Transmitter
Price: $ 209.95 (B&H price)
(3) 430EX Speedlite E-TTL II
Price: $ 234.95 ea
Total Price: $914.80
-----------------------------------------------------
or
----------------------------------------------------
Canon 1-master flash + 3-slave flash option.

(1) 580EX II Speedlite E-TTL II
Price $359.95 (B&H price -rebate)
(w/580EX =no ST-E2 required)
(3) 430EX Speedlite E-TTL II
Price: $ 234.95 ea
Total Price: $1,063.00

Joe:)
 
Wow, you spend a lot of time trying to convince people that Nikon systems are better then can. Looking at your posts, it seems in recent past, you spend more time in Canon forums then you do in Nikon, but your clearly a Nikon user...

Good to see someone's keeping the Canon users informed about how great the Nikon life is...
NickMJr said:
rrcphoto said:
430EX, 420EX, 550EX and 580EX all support E-TTL II.. it's not cheap
for any situation, including CLS.

background, hair light, etc doesn't have to be high guide number
flashes, so the 420/430 can work fine there, but your main front
flashes should probably be the 580/550.

also keep in mind that MOST of canon's flashes are transister pack
upgradable which cuts the recycle time in half - very important.
nikon's are not. the little sb-200's that they rave about in that
article look neat and cool - but have a 7 second full pop recycle
time and no way of speeding that up.
Click to expand...
The Canon system is alot more money than the Nikon system, here is a
senario where you can get (2) SB-800 and (1) SB-600 for $345 less
than (2) 580EX and (1) 430EX. and another senario with (3) SB-800
for $335 less than (3) 580EX. Part of the diferences is the fact
that Nikon provides wireless capability into the camera body of
camareas such as the D70/80/200/300 and for that ability on the Canon
bodies you have to purchase a ST-E2 Transmitter. Also the (3)
SB-800 kts system all come with a 5th battery pack and all capable of
additonal battery packs.

-------------------------------------------------
(3) Nikon SB-800 Speedlight i-TTL
Total Price: $ 944.85
--------------------------------------------------
or
--------------------------------------------------
(2) 580EX II Speedlite E-TTL II
(1) ST-E2 Transmitter Kit
Price: $ 919.95 (B&H Kit price)
(1) 580EX II Speedlite E-TTL II
Price: $ 359.95
Total Price: $1,279.90
-----------------------------------------------------
or
--------------------------------------------------
(2) Nikon SB-800 Speedlight i-TTL
Price: $ 629.90
(1) Nikon SB-600 Speedlight i-TTL
Price: $ 184.95
Total Price: $814.85
--------------------------------------------------
or
--------------------------------------------------
(2) 580EX II Speedlite E-TTL II
(1) ST-E2 Transmitter Kit
Price: $ 919.95 (B&H Kit price)
(1) 430EX Speedlite E-TTL II
Price: $ 240.00
Total Price: $1,159.95
--------------------------------------------------

http://nickmjr.smugmug.com/
Nick M
Click to expand...
 
AJMJ said:
Canon 1-controller + 3-slave flash option.

(1) ST-E2 Transmitter
Price: $ 209.95 (B&H price)
(3) 430EX Speedlite E-TTL II
Price: $ 234.95 ea
Total Price: $914.80
-----------------------------------------------------
Click to expand...
(0) Equivalent not required on a D70/D80/D200/D300
(3) SB-600 @ USD184.95 ea
Total = USD554.85
AJMJ said:
----------------------------------------------------
Canon 1-master flash + 3-slave flash option.

(1) 580EX II Speedlite E-TTL II
Price $359.95 (B&H price -rebate)
(w/580EX =no ST-E2 required)
(3) 430EX Speedlite E-TTL II
Price: $ 234.95 ea
Total Price: $1,063.00

Joe:)
Click to expand...
(0) Equivalent not necessarily required on a D70/D80/D200/D300 ( you can use the integrated flash with all but the D70 in addition to its use as a controller )
(3) SB-600 @ USD184.95 ea
Total = USD554.85
 
AgentWD40 said:
rrcphoto said:
nikon's are not.
Click to expand...
What all of them !

You mean Nikon users can no longer use the SD-8a, SD-7 or SK-6 with
their SB-800s anymore? Oh NO!

Never mind though. At least they can still use the optional SD-800
quick recycling battery pack which Nikon include with every unit.
Click to expand...
read the entire comment. most of canons are, nikons are not. only the sb-800 from my recollection. nikon fanboys jump into every thread here, and can't even read it seems.

canon's recycle packs work on the mr-14, mr-24, 550 and 580 flashes. which if you're using the flashes for more than just static work, a 3 50% difference in recycle time is huge. for the macro flashes, at full pop they are around 7 seconds. the mr flashes from canon can be cut down to around 3 seconds. far more reasonable and if you are comparing against portable strobes, at least a little in the same realm of recycle time.

back to the OP ...

I've used both, but really only use them as studio / on location if I'm desperate to save weight. A set of good portable strobes cost around the same as either system, and delivers far more "real" punch as far as output.

when it comes to strobes you pay for the recycle time, not necessarily the punch .. even 300 w/s strobes will cause you to drop down to ISO 100 and a low f stop under most scenarios. however, with strobes you can get the recycle times down to under 2 seconds - which is far better for a human person to person intereaction for shooting.

Armed with a good flash meter, a set of alienbees will out perform any nikon or canon speedlight system.

Also, umbrellas as shown aren't used in all cases, because the light is too directed / hard, and leaves odd catchlights, soft boxing is usually done, and that loses a stop to two stops from baffling, etc from your flash power.

if you're serious about either method, you'll really get far more use out of a good set of strobes versus speedlights - unless you want to get around 8 or so. (double ganging your key light for instance in one soft box).

Now if you're only looking at a single or double flash system - and shooting in good light (late afternoon for instance), you're even better off if you have someone that can assist you, using a reflector and one flash, or use your ambient location to use natural reflectance (ie: sand, or a white building) as a fill and really only needing a key.
 
AJMJ said:
Canon 1-master flash + 3-slave flash option.

(1) 580EX II Speedlite E-TTL II
Price $359.95 (B&H price -rebate)
(w/580EX =no ST-E2 required)
(3) 430EX Speedlite E-TTL II
Price: $ 234.95 ea
Total Price: $1,063.00

Joe:)
Click to expand...
that would be a pretty good 4 flash system, nothing really required above and beyond that. I do like my ST-E2, and have used it since the EOS-3, and it's paid for itself many times, even for a non-obtrusive AF assist which is far better than any onboard white lamp concept that can get blocked out anyways by an ultrawide hood. and I only had to pay for it once ;)

My only caveat, would be that two 580's or a 550/580 should be primary and the others 430's.. reason being is that fill to key is usually around 1/2 stop to 1 stop difference, and 430's might not be enough for fill. highlight, hair, and background are very low, and also closer to the target, so that's not as important - nor is the recylce time because they atypically aren't popping full power. at least one cp-e3 transister back for the key light.
 
AgentWD40 said:
AJMJ said:
Canon 1-controller + 3-slave flash option.

(1) ST-E2 Transmitter
Price: $ 209.95 (B&H price)
(3) 430EX Speedlite E-TTL II
Price: $ 234.95 ea
Total Price: $914.80
-----------------------------------------------------
Click to expand...
(0) Equivalent not required on a D70/D80/D200/D300
Click to expand...
Very true.
AgentWD40 said:
(3) SB-600 @ USD184.95 ea
Click to expand...
Close maybe, but not equal (Canon guide #141 vs Nikon #98)
AgentWD40 said:
Total = USD554.85
AgentWD40 said:
----------------------------------------------------
Canon 1-master flash + 3-slave flash option.

(1) 580EX II Speedlite E-TTL II
Price $359.95 (B&H price -rebate)
(w/580EX =no ST-E2 required)
(3) 430EX Speedlite E-TTL II
Price: $ 234.95 ea
Total Price: $1,063.00

Joe:)
Click to expand...
(0) Equivalent not necessarily required on a D70/D80/D200/D300 ( you
can use the integrated flash with all but the D70 in addition to its
use as a controller )
Click to expand...
Very true, but come on now, a built in flash is really no camparison to a high power external flash unit.
AgentWD40 said:
(3) SB-600 @ USD184.95 ea
Click to expand...
again - Close maybe, but not equal (Canon guide #141 vs Nikon #98)
AgentWD40 said:
Total = USD554.85
Click to expand...
I absolutely agree that Nikon has a great flash system and in some configurations it can be somewhat less expensive than Canon's, plus that Nikon includes the built in controller on most cameras. (Though I wish it was Radio controlled/triggered not w/flash+IR.)

The original poster was asking about Canon's Flash System and not Nikon's.
I was trying to show them some Canon options.
Joe:)
 
rrcphoto said:
AgentWD40 said:
rrcphoto said:
nikon's are not.
Click to expand...
What all of them !

You mean Nikon users can no longer use the SD-8a, SD-7 or SK-6 with
their SB-800s anymore? Oh NO!

Never mind though. At least they can still use the optional SD-800
quick recycling battery pack which Nikon include with every unit.
Click to expand...
read the entire comment. most of canons are, nikons are not. only
the sb-800 from my recollection. nikon fanboys jump into every
thread here, and can't even read it seems.
Click to expand...
I did read the entire comment. I cannot help it if you are incapable of writing clearly. Or were you hoping that no one would pick you up on it and your erroneos statement would stand? You did not write that most Nikon's are not equipped. You did not write that only the SB-800 is so equipped. There was no limiter in your statement. You stated 'nikon's are not'. i.e. all of them.

You are wrong and got caught out.
rrcphoto said:
canon's recycle packs work on the mr-14, mr-24, 550 and 580 flashes.
which if you're using the flashes for more than just static work, a 3
50% difference in recycle time is huge. for the macro flashes, at
Click to expand...
Am I supposed to be impressed? The INCLUDED SD-800 battery pack with the SD-800 can halve the recycle time of the SB-800. An SD-8a can cut the recycle time by 66%.
So. Yawn.

Incidentally, the SB-600 actually recycles faster than the standard SB-800 anyway.
rrcphoto said:
full pop they are around 7 seconds. the mr flashes from canon can be
cut down to around 3 seconds. far more reasonable and if you are
comparing against portable strobes, at least a little in the same
realm of recycle time.
Click to expand...
2 seconds with an SD-8a and NiCd or NimH batteries on the SB-800.

I'm still not impressed.
 
AgentWD40 said:
AgentWD40 said:
full pop they are around 7 seconds. the mr flashes from canon can be
cut down to around 3 seconds. far more reasonable and if you are
comparing against portable strobes, at least a little in the same
realm of recycle time.
Click to expand...
2 seconds with an SD-8a and NiCd or NimH batteries on the SB-800.

I'm still not impressed.
Click to expand...
again about your sb-800, are you completely unable to read, if so, go back to your own forums instead of just trashing this one and this thread.

I was discussing for the OP the nature of the macro flashes, in case your lack of education and english language skills missed the point.

if you have nothing to contribute another than your drivel, I'd suggest keeping out of threads and growing up.

you are adding nothing to the original poster's query and simply taking up this thread like a child on medication.

there is fundamental differences between speedlights, and strobes in which the OP should be made aware of. Niether canon or nikon attempt to illustrate that.

The lack of transister and quick recycle time packs on either canon or nikon is a limiting factor of the speedlight design when compared to strobes. Understand the concept or do you need a crayola diagram of it?
 
AJMJ said:
AgentWD40 said:
AJMJ said:
Canon 1-controller + 3-slave flash option.

(1) ST-E2 Transmitter
Price: $ 209.95 (B&H price)
(3) 430EX Speedlite E-TTL II
Price: $ 234.95 ea
Total Price: $914.80
-----------------------------------------------------
Click to expand...
(0) Equivalent not required on a D70/D80/D200/D300
Click to expand...
Very true.
AJMJ said:
(3) SB-600 @ USD184.95 ea
Click to expand...
Close maybe, but not equal (Canon guide #141 vs Nikon #98)
AJMJ said:
Total = USD554.85
AJMJ said:
----------------------------------------------------
Canon 1-master flash + 3-slave flash option.

(1) 580EX II Speedlite E-TTL II
Price $359.95 (B&H price -rebate)
(w/580EX =no ST-E2 required)
(3) 430EX Speedlite E-TTL II
Price: $ 234.95 ea
Total Price: $1,063.00

Joe:)
Click to expand...
(0) Equivalent not necessarily required on a D70/D80/D200/D300 ( you
can use the integrated flash with all but the D70 in addition to its
use as a controller )
Click to expand...
Very true, but come on now, a built in flash is really no camparison
to a high power external flash unit.
Click to expand...
The onboard is only fired to trigger the remote flashes and on the D80/200/300 the onboard can contribute to give some light to soften the remotes which are typically fired from a side angle. The onboard will reduce shadow effect. having some output is better than non which is Canon solution.
http://nickmjr.smugmug.com/
Nick M
 
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