My K20D rumour thread summary

Hi Richard, I'd be thrilled if what you said above are all true :D

And I know you are the one that I can count on ;)

Let's wait for a couple more weeks and see how ...

--
Frank
GMT+8hours

 
Thanks for summarizing it all up. There's one thing that really
bothers me, and that was the lack of the AF-Assist lamp. Something
that you can switch on or off. If Pentax does not include that
obvious feature, I don't know what they're trying to get at.

Here's to hoping that it does get into the final feature list, for
both K200D, and K20D.
I feel the same. If my K10D had an AF assist lamp then it would be pretty much a perfect camera to me. I don't understand how my 4 year old Fuji F810 point and shoot compact can have an AF assist lamp built in and my new, modern, 'state of the art' DSLR doesn't.

To me the inclusion of an AF lamp is a no-brainer. The other additional/improved features will be a bonus!
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12037823@N06/
I'm learning so welcome any comments constructive or otherwise!!!
 
Anastigmat wrote:
(snip)
Smaller pixels but better dynamic range? That is not possible.
Actually, it is possible if the new sensor has a sufficiently higher "fill rate", that is, if the area of the surface devoted to the actual photosites is larger. Then each photosite would be as large or larger than on the current 10 MP Sony sensor.
Yeah, but I bet the sensor would not be 14mp, unless it is a full
frame sensor.
I think that a FF sensor from Pentax is not going to happen in the near future. They simply couldn't supply the needed redesigned FF WA lenses.
--
Jim King - Retired Colormonger - Suburban Detroit, Michigan, USA; GMT -5h (EST)
Pentax user for over 45 years. Photo gear and collection listed in my profile.



* * * * *
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
  • Sir Winston Churchill
* * * * *
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.
  • Albert Einstein
 
They use any old ones, for example, my sigma 18-125 is IDed
as a Pentax F 28-80 and my 10-20 is a Sigma 18-55 f3.5-5.6
What program?
The above is very probably only an imperfection of the used EXIF program.
As far as I know any lens (with ROM) can be identified unequivocally.
If Photome has enough information on the lens, it can identify the lens.

--
blende8
PENTAX, mysterium quod absconditum fuit ...
 
Hmm... I wonder what AF improvements will be in the next model. I love the K10D, but I had some difficulty in AFfing the DA*16-50/2.8 correctly close by at 16mm during my last trip. Once I realized, I worked around it, but still I feel the AF system could be improved (I don't really feel for the fine tuning solution). I might send in the K10D + DA*16-50/2.8 combination for servicing and recalibration though... Trouble is I cannot really afford to miss my camera anytime soon (replacement lenses enough, just not the body), so I'll just continue like this...

I'm starting to think I might still succumb and replace the K10D by the next model anyway, even though I swore not to... If so, I won't be holding onto the K10D anyway, but I'll sell it probably...

Looking forward to January, but enjoying the K10D very much until then and after...

Wim

--
Belgium, GMT+1

 
will it open my beer bottles and play MP3's?? :D :D :D :D :D
Often i use my car to drive to shoots so I should not drink anyway, therefore no priority.
However, I would welcome the idea of built in toilet paper!!!!
Nature shooters often have to respond to the call of nature.
--


The difference between genius and LBA is that genius has its
limits.
  • Janneman ( adaptation of the Kings quote from Albert Einstein)
 
14 Mp CMOS APS-C sensor, probably a Pentax design. Not Sony, Fujitsu,
Kodak or Foveon.
Yep, so everyone says.
Well, not everyone, only guys like you with some Pentax insight
Better DR than K10D
Seems so
Improved SR
Probably
AF fine adjustments
Possibly
Frame rate (from other forum) 1-2 fps behind competitors. Probably 4
fps (my guess).
Nah. Maybe more than one rate?
Must be difficult finding statements like that, not violating your NDA and not being wrong. Could it be a crop mode with higher fps... c´mon, you can tell...
Similar body as K10D, stainless steel + plastic, compatible with K10D
BG2 grip.
Would be really sensible, nice for those who want to add a body only.
Live view in LCD, larger, wide viewing angles, probably 3'
Now that would be fantastic! But they can't fit a 3' screen (' = ft,
" = inch) ;-)
lol, you got me there! Not sure it would be fantastic though to carry a DSLR with a 40' (noticed the 2*' ?) screen....especially if youre on crutches!
14 bit RAW
Seems it's the "monkey see, monkey do" trend.
P-TTL flash (no TTL support)
Who else does?
Samsung...also does P-TTL!
PC sync connector
So you can now trip over the wires!
Lens mount same as K10D, still ”crippled”
Ummm, where's my crutches?!!
Dunno, maybe you lost them when you tripped over the wires.
+ lots of more features??
Ohhh yesss!
There have been no leaks on updates on the AF system, although it
seems to be one of the most wanted upgrade in terms of lowlight
performance, speed and CAF tracking performance.
24 jan 2008 will be an interesting date.
Indeed it will! Maybe, if Pentax are up to it and very nice to him,
Uncle Phill will also give us a pre-view at much the same time. ;-)
That would be great.

Mats
 
no one is forcing you to return where ever you came from that same day ;)

having a camera is a great way to pick up girls

unless your married, then your SOL, :]
will it open my beer bottles and play MP3's?? :D :D :D :D :D
Often i use my car to drive to shoots so I should not drink anyway,
therefore no priority.
However, I would welcome the idea of built in toilet paper!!!!
Nature shooters often have to respond to the call of nature.
--


The difference between genius and LBA is that genius has its
limits.
  • Janneman ( adaptation of the Kings quote from Albert Einstein)
 
Me think uncle Phil is playing with me.
I even edited my post to get the second dot there....
ill make a test.
Test!
1dot 1'
2 dot 2'
3 dot 3'
 
If i keep up this posting rate ill soon break the 150 post limit by myself!
Mats
 
If it was possible to do that within the limits of the K10D, Pentax would have done that. The new camera will have extended processing and memory capabilities. Do note that for the function in the K10D, Pentax needs to relie on software in computer, the camera must be attached to the computer. Do you really believe that Pentax wouldn't have done this feature in the service menu in the K10D if it was possible? Why make things so complicated for the technicians? Well, the answer is simply - the K10D can't run this software. It is not possible to have it in the K10D.

And Pentax does not have the resources to release this software in public. The interface isn't smooth enough, there isn't a real user manual written, and so on. It is simply a software for internal use and was never meant to be available openly. I bet it doesn't even run on Windows Vista.

If you will attack Pentax for not upgrading the memory and processing units in the K10D, then please do.

I don't find your continous attacking of Pentax serious anymore. You are just a troll seeking things to complain about.

I wonder how that feel, to write the same attacks over and over again... for weeks, for months. Something is not right here and I feel worried about you.
--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo
 
Everybody seems to assume that the new models will be named K20D and
K200D. But that would contradict the Pentax convention that smaller
number = more advanced camera (as K10D, K100D, K110D). In that sense,
K5D and K50D would be more likely.
Pentax has changed the namming convention with the Optio serie.
First generation = 10, second generation = 20, third generation = 30, and so on.
It seems like they are now doing it for the DSLR's also.
K20D = New generation K10D, K200D = New generation K100D.
The K20D and K200D replacement models will of course be called K30D and K300D.

--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo
 
I doubt it very much. Sony's 12mp is available so why bother with a
14mp sensor that is surely going to be noisier than Sony's 12mp.
Canon wisely stopped (at least for the moment) at 10mp, probably to
prevent noise from getting out of hand.
Pentax began work on new sensor in 2004, then I didn't heard about it again. Until now. It seems like it is ready to release it now. Why designing their own sensor?

The *ist D was delayed several months because Sony couldn't deliver the sensor, the whole production went to Nikon for the D70.

By using Sony, Pentax always gets the sensor after Nikon. This means that Pentax can never have a competetive edge, Pentax can never be before Nikon. The K10D was released after the Nikon D80 because of this.
We don't know if the 14Mp is noisier than Sony's 12Mp.

You are making lots of assumptions. You don't know what technology the new sensor has.
Smaller pixels but better dynamic range? That is not possible.
It seems to me that you are assuming that the sensor uses the Bayer colour pattern.
Well, I do not make that assumption...
Yeah, but I bet the sensor would not be 14mp, unless it is a full
frame sensor.
It is APS-C full frame, but not 24x36 full frame.
--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo
 
Definitely too many assumptions along the way. I guess we'll just have to sit tight and see :).

It'd definitely be neat if the AF could be anywhere close to the Olympus E-3. It's just so weird! It almost felt like watching a movie with those special fake mega fast focus effects that they tend to have. And to top it all, there's the faint bzzzz sound for the effect :p. It's definitely a nice camera and it's not "big" (relative) either :). But as I haven't used Olympus on a regular basis, all those buttons is something to get used to :p. I have no idea about the accuracy of the focus but it was fast... thus their claim to be the fastest AF might seem quite okay so far (in so so decent light at least). In comparison to the D3 and D300, I can't say, as their lenses were arger. But using the D3 was like a darn "movie" as well, with their AF zone focal points. Pretty neat stuff!

Anyhow, point is just that we can wish for a lot... and no matter what we get, there'll always be something more :D. Let's just see how it goes. If Pentax can refine a lot of the things they already have an make them even better and efficient, that'd be great. It's also probably what most would love, as opposed to having a tonne of new features and still the "same" or at least "similar" performance ;).
 
Smaller pixels but better dynamic range? That is not possible.
Actually, it is possible if the new sensor has a sufficiently
higher "fill rate", that is, if the area of the surface devoted to
the actual photosites is larger. Then each photosite would be as
large or larger than on the current 10 MP Sony sensor.
This is my understanding:

"dynamic range" seems to be a bit ambiguous. It should mean the biggest range from dark to bright. Sometimes though people read it as tonal range, which is the number of tones (gradations) in the dynamic range.

For an analogy of a CCD sensor, think of a bucket (capacitor), rain (light) and a funnel (micro lens).

Dynamic range is proportional to Bucket / funnel.
Tonal range is proportional to the bucket size.
SR ratio is a increased with funnel size.
Base ISO is proportional to Funnel/Bucket

So, I think you're both wrong ;-]

To get another stop of DR with changing only the capacitor, you'd need to double the capacitance. This would double the capacitor size. Space is at a premium on APSC I suspect. You could shrink the micro-lens, but then you'd increase noise.

If you don't believe me, look at the Fuji high DR camera, the F700.

--
cheers!

Gunn

-- Get a big lens and get closer™.

http://www.dpreview.pentaxistDS.photoshare.co.nz
http://www.y3m.net/penwik/pmwiki.php/Main/PentaxLensWiki
FAQ: http://www.pentaxuser.org/tiki-index.php

 
This is my understanding:

"dynamic range" seems to be a bit ambiguous. It should mean the
biggest range from dark to bright. Sometimes though people read it as
tonal range, which is the number of tones (gradations) in the dynamic
range.

For an analogy of a CCD sensor, think of a bucket (capacitor), rain
(light) and a funnel (micro lens).

Dynamic range is proportional to Bucket / funnel.
Tonal range is proportional to the bucket size.
SR ratio is a increased with funnel size.
Base ISO is proportional to Funnel/Bucket
With a CCD the "bucket" is large in relation to the size of the pixel, the Light well makes up a large portion of the Pixel, while with a CMOS it makes a very small portion of the pixel, the rest is made up of circuitry. If the circuitry could be reduced the size of the "bucket" could be increased, Samsung are working on a CMOS technology where the circuits are underneath the light well, making it posible for the light well to be as large as the pixel.
So, I think you're both wrong ;-]

To get another stop of DR with changing only the capacitor, you'd
need to double the capacitance. This would double the capacitor size.
Space is at a premium on APSC I suspect. You could shrink the
micro-lens, but then you'd increase noise.

If you don't believe me, look at the Fuji high DR camera, the F700.

--
cheers!

Gunn

-- Get a big lens and get closer™.

http://www.dpreview.pentaxistDS.photoshare.co.nz
http://www.y3m.net/penwik/pmwiki.php/Main/PentaxLensWiki
FAQ: http://www.pentaxuser.org/tiki-index.php

--
'The colour 18% grey was invented by a Workplace Safety committee'

GMT +9.5

Pentax SLR talk FAQ
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=23161072
 
This is my understanding:
For an analogy of a CCD sensor, think of a bucket (capacitor), rain
(light) and a funnel (micro lens).

Dynamic range is proportional to Bucket / funnel.
Tonal range is proportional to the bucket size.
SR ratio is a increased with funnel size.
Base ISO is proportional to Funnel/Bucket
With a CCD the "bucket" is large in relation to the size of the
pixel, the Light well makes up a large portion of the Pixel, while
with a CMOS it makes a very small portion of the pixel, the rest is
made up of circuitry. If the circuitry could be reduced the size of
the "bucket" could be increased, Samsung are working on a CMOS
technology where the circuits are underneath the light well, making
it posible for the light well to be as large as the pixel.
Jolly good! Wouldn't that be nice?

--
cheers!

Gunn

-- Get a big lens and get closer™.

http://www.dpreview.pentaxistDS.photoshare.co.nz
http://www.y3m.net/penwik/pmwiki.php/Main/PentaxLensWiki
FAQ: http://www.pentaxuser.org/tiki-index.php

 
Amused myself with colllecting info from diferent K20D rumour
threads, below is my summary.

14 Mp CMOS APS-C sensor, probably a Pentax design. Not Sony, Fujitsu,
Kodak or Foveon.
Better DR than K10D
Improved SR
AF fine adjustments
Frame rate (from other forum) 1-2 fps behind competitors. Probably 4
fps (my guess).
Similar body as K10D, stainless steel + plastic, compatible with K10D
BG2 grip.
Live view in LCD, larger, wide viewing angles, probably 3'
14 bit RAW
P-TTL flash (no TTL support)
PC sync connector
Lens mount same as K10D, still ”crippled”

+ lots of more features??

There have been no leaks on updates on the AF system, although it
seems to be one of the most wanted upgrade in terms of lowlight
performance, speed and CAF tracking performance.
24 jan 2008 will be an interesting date.

Mats
 
If it was possible to do that within the limits of the K10D, Pentax
would have done that.
If that were the case, then fine - the subject would be moot.

But, that is not what Pentax used as the reason. They said they won't give it to us because the buyers of the K10D can't handle it, and there would be many customer service repairs (no, they didn't mention a reset button would solve that).

The software Pentax technicians use is not what is being asked for in this feature. They do not need to remember various lens settings. That couple of tiny bits of information is the only additional memory the K10D would use.

Before Pentax quickly took away the de-bug menu, people were able to set, and have the camera memorize that setting for one lens. No additional software needed.

A firmware update would provide a proper menu interface, and just that bit of memory for a few more lenses.

So, look down upon me all you want just like typical reiki masters do, but you've got the story wrong here.
 

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