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PC or Mac ?
- Thread starter Greg M
- Start date
Mikhail Bogdanov
Veteran Member
Another thing to consider could be possible hardware upgrades, e.g. RAM, graphic cards, etc. In PC it could be done in minutes. Not sure if it's that easy with MAC.
David Foster
Member
PCs are very vunerable to viruses and hacker attacks. Active scripting and other "features" plus the way explorer is so integrated with the OS makes them so (plus the fact that their market predominance means the idiots who do this sort of thing can screw up more people if they target PCs). For this reason alone I do not store original or creative material on my PC.
Furthermore there is something terribly wrong with Windows XP. I'm not sure exactly what but even industry pundits (at least ones who speak their minds) are beginning to notice. I am no fan of John Dvorak but I'm willing to spot him as someone with some Windows experience. Check out his latest column: http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,s=1500&a=25434,00.asp
If you must use Windows, use Windows 2000. If you buy a new PC with Windows XP, scrape it off your drive before you do anything else.
Mac is also simply more fun. With Photoshop 7 out now, there are fewer and fewer reasons to go PC. You can save money in the short term, but read Dvorak's column carefully. How expensive is frustration?
Josh BRown
New member
why i use a Mac,( with a completely biased answer)
better quality hardware, color sync capabilities, OS X does not crash(only individual programs), and is growing like crazy with the Unix people on board now to develop new software, software is not an issue, if you really need to run a windows app then you can use virtual PC which in many ways is better than running windows on a x86 machine. the digital hub(iPhoto, iTunes,iDVD,etc lets me do a lot of seemingly difficult things with relative easiness. i just created an entire digital portfolio and burned it to a DVD. macs read PC and mac files, pc's dont , apple is an innovator not a follower, invented firewire, the mouse, etc. the new iMac is a great deal, the iPod is the best MP3 player on the market but i also use it to carry my photo files, you can get up to 10 GB on it now. the G4 is great but the G5 will probably come out this summer and blow some people away. apple's LCD screens are much easier on the eyes and take up less space on the desktop. you can get any major application you need(office, photoshop, explorer etc) and if you cant then you just run virtual PC. yes, you can buy a cheaper PC but an apple will last longer. this is the number one photojournalism school in the nation and we are getting a new multimillion dollar building in the fall which will include over 100 mac workstations to 0 PC stations if that tells you anything. and mostly canon stuff in the gear pool by the way
do a search for apple and see how many "fan" sites pop up, mac users are really loyal and very helpful with problems. how many dell or gateway fan sites do you see?
the only weakness i see is for playing games..........my advice....buy an Xbox
better quality hardware, color sync capabilities, OS X does not crash(only individual programs), and is growing like crazy with the Unix people on board now to develop new software, software is not an issue, if you really need to run a windows app then you can use virtual PC which in many ways is better than running windows on a x86 machine. the digital hub(iPhoto, iTunes,iDVD,etc lets me do a lot of seemingly difficult things with relative easiness. i just created an entire digital portfolio and burned it to a DVD. macs read PC and mac files, pc's dont , apple is an innovator not a follower, invented firewire, the mouse, etc. the new iMac is a great deal, the iPod is the best MP3 player on the market but i also use it to carry my photo files, you can get up to 10 GB on it now. the G4 is great but the G5 will probably come out this summer and blow some people away. apple's LCD screens are much easier on the eyes and take up less space on the desktop. you can get any major application you need(office, photoshop, explorer etc) and if you cant then you just run virtual PC. yes, you can buy a cheaper PC but an apple will last longer. this is the number one photojournalism school in the nation and we are getting a new multimillion dollar building in the fall which will include over 100 mac workstations to 0 PC stations if that tells you anything. and mostly canon stuff in the gear pool by the way
do a search for apple and see how many "fan" sites pop up, mac users are really loyal and very helpful with problems. how many dell or gateway fan sites do you see?
the only weakness i see is for playing games..........my advice....buy an Xbox
Bob Rowe
Member
Dittos to the previous fine list of reasons to go Macintosh.
The Mac was designed for the creative, intuitive mind which is why it is the favorite of the creative industry and also why many just don't get it. All I have to do is boot Windows (on my Mac of course) and see the jaggy, blurry Windows start-up graphic to know this product is not speaking to me. In a production environment where creativity and productivity must be in seamless harmony you've got to be on a Mac and I don't know many who aren't.
Heaven would be editing images from your D60 (if you could get one) on a 23" Cinema Display in Photoshop 7. If you can do that and then move back to Windows . . . well, it just says what it says.
The Mac was designed for the creative, intuitive mind which is why it is the favorite of the creative industry and also why many just don't get it. All I have to do is boot Windows (on my Mac of course) and see the jaggy, blurry Windows start-up graphic to know this product is not speaking to me. In a production environment where creativity and productivity must be in seamless harmony you've got to be on a Mac and I don't know many who aren't.
Heaven would be editing images from your D60 (if you could get one) on a 23" Cinema Display in Photoshop 7. If you can do that and then move back to Windows . . . well, it just says what it says.
1:If I change the name of my hard drive from Macintosh HD to Susan B Anthony, all the programs follow the change without my having to do anything - try changing the name of your C drive to anything. Not that you would, even if you could, but it shows you the sophistication of the systems.
2: We had two of the original beige G3 Macs - 1 a 233 MHz, the other a 266 MHz; I upgraded one to a G3 500 and the other to a G4 450. Took me 15 minutes each (pop out old ZIF chip, pop in new one, fiddle one jumper each). Try upgrading a PIII 300 to a PIII 600; for bonus points try upgrading a PII to a PIII or a PIII to a P4.
3: When we got a cable modem last month, we set up a wireless 11MPs network in our home and got all 6 Macs on the network in under an hour. I don't know how long it would take you, but it took one of my (experienced PC user) friends the better part of a weekend to get his all PC wireless network running at home (4 computers).
4: It took my 80 YO mother a day to learn how to use her iMac; her friend is still taking classes to figure out how to get on AOL with her PC.
And yes, I use WinTels at work, have 2 WinTels at home (never did trust AMD), did HelpDesk stuff (and did M$ Office development stuff) on WinTels in a couple of places that I worked. So I am not a MAC only wienie either. -Dan-
M
Michael Salzlechner
Guest
Greg
I have used Mac's until about 8 years ago for DTP and graphics work. Back then the Mac certainly was almost nessecary for this type of work but today we do all our publishing (books and magazines) on a PC and dotn have any mac's anymore. Not that we dont want them or they are not good but there is nothing i would need a mac for so why have both platforms. The thing about printing companies only accepting mac files is a myth also. we never had any problems with any of them and we have used quite a few.
Pick the platform that will be the best for you. This depends on what type of software you are running and also an important consideration is what your friends and collegues use. It is always good to have somebody who can help you in case you need help.
I have used Mac's until about 8 years ago for DTP and graphics work. Back then the Mac certainly was almost nessecary for this type of work but today we do all our publishing (books and magazines) on a PC and dotn have any mac's anymore. Not that we dont want them or they are not good but there is nothing i would need a mac for so why have both platforms. The thing about printing companies only accepting mac files is a myth also. we never had any problems with any of them and we have used quite a few.
Pick the platform that will be the best for you. This depends on what type of software you are running and also an important consideration is what your friends and collegues use. It is always good to have somebody who can help you in case you need help.
Jeffrey Lazo
Senior Member
How is this for expandability and upgradeability?! I bought a G4 tower for my mom, it is great. I use a Ti PB my GF uses an ibook. I really love using PS7 in OSX and I personally find the interface easier to navigate, but this is b/c I rarely use PC's. I love the ease of use.
Michael Martin
Senior Member
Have you ever used a MAC or are you just listening to PC people? Most PC fans have never used a MAC. Sounds like you already had your mind made up before you asked.
M
Michael Salzlechner
Guest
Dan
I am not sure if you ever used a PC but trust me on this you can change your drive name to whatever you want without loosing any functionality. Maybe you where thinking of a CPM system or something ?
As for upgrading a PC processor we do this all the time and never have any problems. Pop out the processor pop in a new one done.
As for your friend he doesnt seem to be very experienced if he has these kinds of problems. Setting up a network shouldnt be a problem at all if you have a little experience.
This is just this thing with PC as well as Mac fanatics. Some are religiously crazy about their equipment (same goes for cameras and/or cars or other things BTW) and some are sane and look at them as tools and pick them based on their needs and not their religios beliefs
I am not sure if you ever used a PC but trust me on this you can change your drive name to whatever you want without loosing any functionality. Maybe you where thinking of a CPM system or something ?
As for upgrading a PC processor we do this all the time and never have any problems. Pop out the processor pop in a new one done.
As for your friend he doesnt seem to be very experienced if he has these kinds of problems. Setting up a network shouldnt be a problem at all if you have a little experience.
This is just this thing with PC as well as Mac fanatics. Some are religiously crazy about their equipment (same goes for cameras and/or cars or other things BTW) and some are sane and look at them as tools and pick them based on their needs and not their religios beliefs
Pips
Leading Member
I use a PC for my day to day business use with Microsoft software except Netscape Navigator.
I have a MAC at home a G4 with A Studio Flat screen two disk drives 40G and 60G DVD Burner Superdrive and Wacom Tablet. I have MACOS 10.2 and Microsoft OSX Office But the major apps for my MAC are photoshop Illustrator and Fractal Painter iTunes iPhoto iMovie. Frankly I much prefer my MAC which is 18 months old to my PC which is nice new VIAO.
Why, well the photo music and art apps just run - no strange system messages just performance at the creative point.
And BTW I just connect my camera (D30) and bingo it works no drivers or PC Drivel and Yes when I have a visit by a friend with a different digital camera chances are we will connect it to the USB and it will work! Magic no ----> MAC
I have a MAC at home a G4 with A Studio Flat screen two disk drives 40G and 60G DVD Burner Superdrive and Wacom Tablet. I have MACOS 10.2 and Microsoft OSX Office But the major apps for my MAC are photoshop Illustrator and Fractal Painter iTunes iPhoto iMovie. Frankly I much prefer my MAC which is 18 months old to my PC which is nice new VIAO.
Why, well the photo music and art apps just run - no strange system messages just performance at the creative point.
And BTW I just connect my camera (D30) and bingo it works no drivers or PC Drivel and Yes when I have a visit by a friend with a different digital camera chances are we will connect it to the USB and it will work! Magic no ----> MAC
J
John Mason
Guest
We have benchmarked pc's vs mac at the graphics lab at school. When we have done this - dollar for dollar - the PC is 400% more bang for the buck and runs the same software.
It is a simple myth that macs are faster.
And - by the way - the Athlons measure faster than the P4's in most cases.
That is myth 2 that the P4 is faster. There are only a couple of things the P4 is highly optimized for that it is faster than the much cheaper AMD. Generally speaking a 1800+ will be about the same as the 2.2 P4, but the 2100+ Athlon is faster than any P4 at this current time. There are no macs even in the ballpark speed wise with the 2100+ Athlon.
If you don't believe - measure it in photoshop same setup, 2 machines, then get back to me.
On the other hand - Macs are firmly established in most commercial places that run graphics arts departments.
Anyway - if a mac user doesn't believe me - send me a file with a certain photoshop operation you want me to do as a test. Say a guasisan blur. Or for the fun of it - how long it takes to open photoshop. On my 1800+ machine photoshop takes 2 seconds to open and display ready to edit a typical 3meg D30 jpeg. My 2100+ machine is even faster - of course.
Then once we have the timings for the operation - how much did your mac cost vs how much did my pc cost. You'll always end up with about a 4 to 1 value in favor of the PC. Not to mention that in terms of ultimate PC speed for either platform the PC is faster.
This ratio of performance vs price has held steady as each company comes out with new offerings for a couple of years now. So this is really old news.
It is a simple myth that macs are faster.
And - by the way - the Athlons measure faster than the P4's in most cases.
That is myth 2 that the P4 is faster. There are only a couple of things the P4 is highly optimized for that it is faster than the much cheaper AMD. Generally speaking a 1800+ will be about the same as the 2.2 P4, but the 2100+ Athlon is faster than any P4 at this current time. There are no macs even in the ballpark speed wise with the 2100+ Athlon.
If you don't believe - measure it in photoshop same setup, 2 machines, then get back to me.
On the other hand - Macs are firmly established in most commercial places that run graphics arts departments.
Anyway - if a mac user doesn't believe me - send me a file with a certain photoshop operation you want me to do as a test. Say a guasisan blur. Or for the fun of it - how long it takes to open photoshop. On my 1800+ machine photoshop takes 2 seconds to open and display ready to edit a typical 3meg D30 jpeg. My 2100+ machine is even faster - of course.
Then once we have the timings for the operation - how much did your mac cost vs how much did my pc cost. You'll always end up with about a 4 to 1 value in favor of the PC. Not to mention that in terms of ultimate PC speed for either platform the PC is faster.
This ratio of performance vs price has held steady as each company comes out with new offerings for a couple of years now. So this is really old news.
Greg M
Senior Member
Just because I am a PC user and don't understand why people would choose a Mac doesn't mean that I can't be opened minded about it. If someone could give me a reason that the Mac is better then the PC for photo editing then I would seriously consider getting one. However there would need to be a clear advantage for me to do so. I see it like this, the PC is less expensive and is more user friendly on the hardware upgrade. Like I stated in the post that you replied too, the advantage that the Mac use to have does not seem to be their anymore.
As far as listening to PC people is concerned, all that I've heard from Mac people is that it is easier to use and that it is better. Better at what? As far as photo editing is concerned what is there that makes the Mac better? I seem to be getting logical answers from PC people and emotional answers from Mac people.
Again, if there is a clear advantage to using a Mac then I will consider getting one but all I have gotten so far are clear advantages to using a PC. Ease of use is not enough to give up all of the advantages to using a PC.
J
John Mason
Guest
just get a zip disk - these read the same on both platforms - then everyone is happy
You get more speed at much lower cost and the mac users get compatible files
You get more speed at much lower cost and the mac users get compatible files
J
John Mason
Guest
My main graphics machine has 5 hard drives - and a Dat Drive and a dvd/combo burner. Much more expandable than that case.
I run 4 drives data striped and mirrored with a controller with 128 meg of ram. I use a dedicated and fast little 7200 rpm drive for the swap file and temp files. This is the fastest way to have fault tolerance and speed. I have a single drive working space of 150 gig. I have to lose 2 hard drives to lose any data. If I were to build this now I would have 240 gig usable space since I'd do it with 120gig drives instead of 75 gig. You have lots more hardware options from many more manufacturers in PC land than Mac land and at lower cost.
Faster and Cheaper - but you have to know more what your doing. Mac will constrain your choices but for some people that is a good thing.
I run 4 drives data striped and mirrored with a controller with 128 meg of ram. I use a dedicated and fast little 7200 rpm drive for the swap file and temp files. This is the fastest way to have fault tolerance and speed. I have a single drive working space of 150 gig. I have to lose 2 hard drives to lose any data. If I were to build this now I would have 240 gig usable space since I'd do it with 120gig drives instead of 75 gig. You have lots more hardware options from many more manufacturers in PC land than Mac land and at lower cost.
Faster and Cheaper - but you have to know more what your doing. Mac will constrain your choices but for some people that is a good thing.
How is this for expandability and upgradeability?! I bought a G4
tower for my mom, it is great. I use a Ti PB my GF uses an ibook.
I really love using PS7 in OSX and I personally find the interface
easier to navigate, but this is b/c I rarely use PC's. I love the
ease of use.
Greg M
Senior Member
I like the PC but I'm just asking if I am wrong in thinking that the Mac would not offer enough of an advantage to switch to for my photo editing. So far all anyone has said is that it is easier to use, after you sift through the usual Mac is better then PC "stuff".
Mike I wish I could have made my point nearly as elegantly as you made my point.
This is not religious belief, it's cold hard experience on my part. With the exception of external USB peripherals, I have NEVER had as easy a time installing stuff on our PCs as I have on our Macs. And in answer to the question of the thread, that's as true for me as of a week ago as it was a few years ago. -Dan-
I use a PC every day. But I'm not a systems person, I am a user. My specialty is with Office - mostly Word and PowerPoint.
I'm sure that you do. By the sound of it you are experienced. When it comes to this kind of thing, I am a total amateur. I read the instructions from PowerLogix and just ran the CD that came with the chip to set it up once it was popped in. I was always told that other than heat-sink differences, changing a PC chip required working with the Registry to get things up and running.
But I set up my Mac network with almost no experience in networking at all.
I agree with you completely on this. A computer is a tool and nothing more. You must choose your tool based on how well it suits your needs. But the thread asked for factual accounts of whether the Macintosh was still easier to use than the PC or whether that was now largely a myth. My answer is that it's still true (at least for me). Even a hardware clown like me can upgrade a Mac processor; a networking newbie like me can set up a Mac network in a very short time; and a peripheral peon like yours truly can set up a USB card, Firewire card, and set up an external CD burner within an hour or two.
This is not religious belief, it's cold hard experience on my part. With the exception of external USB peripherals, I have NEVER had as easy a time installing stuff on our PCs as I have on our Macs. And in answer to the question of the thread, that's as true for me as of a week ago as it was a few years ago. -Dan-
Bob Rowe
Member
Although I have heard from highly reliable sources that God is in fact a Mac user.
Bob
D
Daniel Lauring
Guest
I think there are a lot of fanatics in both camps. Everyone wants to be in the winners circle so they have a tendancy to push too hard.
In general, Macs have been a step ahead of PCs in ease of use and operating system reliability. But, since Win95/NT, Windows has made some tremendous strides and there is less distance between them then either side would have you think.
The main reasons PCs can be such a bear to upgrade is there are so many choices. With all the different hardware MS tries to cover it is inevitable that there will be some incompatibilities. Buying a system from a manufacturer like Dell, who insures compatibility is one way around this. Another way is to do the research and build a system with known compatible components. I have built a dozen PCs. Some have been complete nightmares. The one I'm typing on now just worked...not one bit of tweaking was required. So with a PC you are trading off freedom to own the latest greatest hardware, with stability of a few well tested components. This allows the latest PCs to be a bit faster than the latest Macs, but these are small differences in the grand scheme of things.
Windows networking is pretty simple...but not as straightforward as it should be. Once you understand the basics, it works well. I installed a wireless system at home and it worked just like that...no fuss...no muss.
As far as Mac legendary reliability, I can't tell you how many times I was on the phone helping my sister "rebuild" her system because of some oddball fault. They are not immune to problems.
OSX, for Mac has a lot of promise. So does WinXP.
The general rule with personal computers is to buy the hardware you need to support the software you want to run. In the short and long run the software is a much greater expense. The fastest, most reliable hardware in the world won't help you if it won't run the software you need.
Danny
In general, Macs have been a step ahead of PCs in ease of use and operating system reliability. But, since Win95/NT, Windows has made some tremendous strides and there is less distance between them then either side would have you think.
The main reasons PCs can be such a bear to upgrade is there are so many choices. With all the different hardware MS tries to cover it is inevitable that there will be some incompatibilities. Buying a system from a manufacturer like Dell, who insures compatibility is one way around this. Another way is to do the research and build a system with known compatible components. I have built a dozen PCs. Some have been complete nightmares. The one I'm typing on now just worked...not one bit of tweaking was required. So with a PC you are trading off freedom to own the latest greatest hardware, with stability of a few well tested components. This allows the latest PCs to be a bit faster than the latest Macs, but these are small differences in the grand scheme of things.
Windows networking is pretty simple...but not as straightforward as it should be. Once you understand the basics, it works well. I installed a wireless system at home and it worked just like that...no fuss...no muss.
As far as Mac legendary reliability, I can't tell you how many times I was on the phone helping my sister "rebuild" her system because of some oddball fault. They are not immune to problems.
OSX, for Mac has a lot of promise. So does WinXP.
The general rule with personal computers is to buy the hardware you need to support the software you want to run. In the short and long run the software is a much greater expense. The fastest, most reliable hardware in the world won't help you if it won't run the software you need.
Danny
Greg M
Senior Member
This is not true. Pop in the chip and either change a jumper or two, or go into set-up and change some BIOS settings. However, most newer boards don't need anything but the power turned on after changing the chip.
Same here only mine is a PC network.
Here is my original question and it asked for much more then ease of use. Ease of use is only 20% of the question. It seems obvious that the Mac is still easier to use overall but that is actually the least important to me out of the 5 parts of my question.
Simple question with a lot of parts. Consider price, speed, ease of use, available software, and final output.
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