What makes the D3 so appealing to everyone?

Kevin Omura said:

Zeppelin said:

Besides having a lot of extra features and faster FPS, what makes the
D3 more appealing than a 5D?

If Canon makes a 16MP 5D II, wouldn't that take the wind out of
Nikon’s sails and sales?

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Zeppelin ±

Click to expand...

It would be a no brainer, otherwise I suspect it's more a matter of
the folks who have the need to just own something new. If I was a
Nikon shooter I'd be happy, as a Canon shooter I don't really care
other than it means Canon won't be able to just sit idly by.

Don't you mean when and not 'if'....

Kevin

Click to expand...

Idle?? more like they have not even found the key tp start the engine.

Canon has been Idle for many years, with very minor increments between the 20D/30D and 40D. It took Canon about 3 years to finally intoduct Spot Metering to the xxD series. Then when they did that its only one single Spot meter thats in the center only. Even Nikons cheapest D4O has 3 spot metering points in each of its AF points, which is true for every Nikon which has Spot metering in every AF point. Canon was also very idle with features like AutoISO, Wireless Flashs is still not built-in to any of its cameras.

Even when Canon seemed to be moving forward with new features like Live view, it took only days for Nikon to top that feature with there live view that can AutoFocus in Live View without delay and flopping the mirror down.

http://nickmjr.smugmug.com/
Nick M

It could certainly take the wind out of the D300 sails. I would still consider it but need Canon to pay attention to improving IQ performance, even above the current high level. I would also like to see in-body IS, improved WB (always a Canon weakness in artificial light), and bullet-proof metering. An optional vertical grip would be ok but I would like to se improved build and weatherproofing. Finally, I would like to see a more accurate LCD review which can swivel upwards (flip-up only) for live view shooting in AF and manual mode. At $2500 approx. a winner!
Tony

I won't be getting one, but what's not to like?

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Thanks for looking

Zeppelin said:

Besides having a lot of extra features and faster FPS, what makes the
D3 more appealing than a 5D?

Click to expand...

So much... so much... sealed, MLU-button, HDMI-output, super-LCD, dual-CF, colorbased-AF, better wireless flash, better LiveView, and much more. And the 5DmkII will offer nothing from these goodies. The D3 is a step ahead in features... and in Imagequality. It is at least a full stop better than the 5D in noise at high iso...

Zeppelin said:

If Canon makes a 16MP 5D II, wouldn't that take the wind out of
Nikon’s sails and sales?

Click to expand...

Yes. A bit. But if Canon makes a 16MP 5D there is no way it'll have low noise like the FF 12 MP D3. Lots of people rather have low noise and large DR than MP. And if Canon builds a very good 5D, its gonna hurt 1D sales. They don't want that to happen. Compared to the 1D the new Nikon shines in every aspect... well, there are people who benefit from a cropped sensor. Compared to the 1Ds the D3 seems a very good deal... there is only one thing the 1Ds can do better... low iso studio shots... but what happens at 3200 iso? It might well be an upressed D3 photo looks nicer than a noisy 1Ds picture... I'm waiting for the first comparisons...

Just want to agree with the person who pointed out that the D3 really competes primarily with the 1DMKIII, not the 5D. The feature set (and the price) is more similar to Canons PJ camera.

The 5D is currently still unique in that it provides an excellent full-frame sensor in a camera that is less expensive but lacks features that may appeal to the buyers of cameras like the D3 and the 1DMKIII.

Dan

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G Dan Mitchell
SF Bay Area
http://www.gdanmitchell.com/

hunk said:

Zeppelin said:

Besides having a lot of extra features and faster FPS, what makes the
D3 more appealing than a 5D?

Click to expand...

So much... so much... sealed, MLU-button, HDMI-output, super-LCD,
dual-CF, colorbased-AF, better wireless flash, better LiveView, and
much more. And the 5DmkII will offer nothing from these goodies. The
D3 is a step ahead in features... and in Imagequality. It is at least
a full stop better than the 5D in noise at high iso...

Click to expand...

and it's today $2800 more expensive... is anybody around figure out what $2800 is or no...
means two 5D for the price of D3 so you bet it has more to offer

The Nikon D3 is the pro version of the 5D and not the 1D MK3. It's unfortunate but that is the way I feel about it.

I love the 5D and want a pro version of it. After owning the MK3 I feel cheated and not really satisfied. The troubles the MK3 is having and how the value of the camera is dropping so fast I feel it is a closed case. If Canon indeed had a pro version of the 5D I would want that, but Nikon does so that is what I will probably be adding.

If you don't need a pro version of the 5D, wait for Canon to update the camera. I hope they do it sooner than later. For me, the rumors of the 1Dx is more in line with what I want, so I am keeping an eye on that. But that probably won't be able to be in my hands for over a year or even a lot longer. The D3 is much closer and fits the bill. A few lenses and I can have both lines going and hope I don't wind up liking the wrong one

The 1D MK3 should have been a full frame 12mp camera. Canon took a less adventurous road and got caught with a gaping hole in their line up. It was predictable enough for Nikon to plan on Canon's habits - and they won. Unless Canon has a way to fast-track a camera to production, it will be quite a while before they can catch up. It was a great move by Nikon, and it was Canon's fault that it happened. Phil Askey has been warning about Canon's predictability and he has been proven right.

Peter

Zeppelin said:

Besides having a lot of extra features and faster FPS, what makes the
D3 more appealing than a 5D?

If Canon makes a 16MP 5D II, wouldn't that take the wind out of
Nikon’s sails and sales?

--
Zeppelin ±

Click to expand...

--
'Life is good - eternal life is better'

I would hope that the new 51-point AF system of the new Nikon bodies will perform well for BIFs (yet to be proved). But for me it's not a matter of this body or that body, it's about a system and to me the Canon system is a more complete and better priced system than the Nikon system. I've used the 1D Mark II and it's AF system was superb for BIFs. I think the 1D Mark III's AF system once fixed will perform better than the Mark IIs and I may even try that body again in the future once it's problems have been clearly resolved.

First the D3 is basically a Mark III with full frame so it has the durability, fast AF, low light AF, high ISO capability, capture rate, AWB accuracy of the Mark III without the problems of an APS-H camera that has no lenses made for its format. Big difference between shooting 14mm on the D3 with the 14-24mm f2.8 zoom and shooting at 16mm with the 16-35mm f2.8 lens on the Mark III.

The D3 needs to be compared to the Mark III and not the 5D. The only thing the D3 has in common with the 5D is the sensor size and relative number of megapixels. It makes as much sense to compare these two cameras as it does the Mark II with the 30D.

Add in the new 14-24mm f2.8 and 24-70mm f2.8 lenses designed for digital sensors while only the Canon 16-35mm f2.8 II has been released for the Mark III, 5D and 1Ds cameras. And the 14-24mm f2.8 is as sharp as a 14mm or 18mm or 24mm prime, and it sells for $500 less than the newly announced Canon 14mm f2.8 lens.

Add in the 5-year lens warranty, no ERR99 problems, consistent flash, CLS, and there are a lot of reasons in addition to the D3 for buying Nikon.

Canon will need to produce a Mark IV with FF not a 5D II to stop the flow to Nikon.

...for Nikon's answer to Canon's long-time FF and high ISO/low noise dominance.

FINALLY, it appears that Nikon is bring something to the table that might get Canon's attention.

It's about time...

Zeppelin said:

Besides having a lot of extra features and faster FPS, what makes the
D3 more appealing than a 5D?

If Canon makes a 16MP 5D II, wouldn't that take the wind out of
Nikon’s sails and sales?

--
Zeppelin ±

Click to expand...

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A few Markuson Images...
Look-see at:
http://www.pbase.com/markuson

no text

It's a great camera so the interest is only natural. There are quite a few people who will buy it:

• Mainly Nikon users, they have been waiting for a long time for a new camera
• A few that will switch (back) from Canon for various reasons
• People who are largely driven by "want"
• Those who want the latest and greatest gadget regardless of brand

I don't think "everyone" is interested enough to buy though, like people who:

• Have a large Canon gear collection
• Don't prefer full frame for sports or wildlife
• Realize the differences are for the most part not what limits your photography
• Realize the cost to switch brands isn't justifiable
• Don't worry about having the latest and greatest all the time
• Don't jump between brands every model generation
• Don't have the money, the D3 is expensive
• Are largely driven by "need"

The interest in the Nikon camp is fully justified, the worry and insecurity in the Canon camp is mostly funny, or maybe sad.

• Anders @ http://www.aobild.com *

FretNoMore said:

It's a great camera so the interest is only natural. There are quite
a few people who will buy it:

• Mainly Nikon users, they have been waiting for a long time for a

new camera

• A few that will switch (back) from Canon for various reasons
• People who are largely driven by "want"
• Those who want the latest and greatest gadget regardless of brand

I don't think "everyone" is interested enough to buy though, like
people who:

• Have a large Canon gear collection
• Don't prefer full frame for sports or wildlife
• Realize the differences are for the most part not what limits your

photography

• Realize the cost to switch brands isn't justifiable
• Don't worry about having the latest and greatest all the time
• Don't jump between brands every model generation
• Don't have the money, the D3 is expensive
• Are largely driven by "need"

The interest in the Nikon camp is fully justified, the worry and
insecurity in the Canon camp is mostly funny, or maybe sad.

• Anders @ http://www.aobild.com *

Click to expand...

I'd say you covered it well. Still there's no denying it's appeal whichever side of the fence you sit on. It's good news for Canon owners as finally Nikon has got it's act together and has caught Canon napping. The next cycle of Canon upgrades will be most interesting.

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• Anders @ http://www.aobild.com *

Canon has been making FF DSLR's for the last half decade, so a new FF DSLR for Canon is ho-hum, nothing groundbreaking. Heck, you can get a FF DSLR from Canon for around $2000. So it's at a point where it's taken for granted.

But for Nikon, FF digital is something totally new, and for them it IS ground breaking. Plus, up until now, Nikon's high ISO performance has mostly sucked, while for Canon it's something that they've been doing for years and is now taken for granted. Good high ISO performance from Nikon in a pro body with higher resolution is something completely new for Nikon. Good high ISO performance from Canon is no big deal.

Zeppelin said:

Besides having a lot of extra features and faster FPS, what makes the
D3 more appealing than a 5D?

If Canon makes a 16MP 5D II, wouldn't that take the wind out of
Nikon’s sails and sales?

--
Zeppelin ±

Click to expand...

Zeppelin said:

Besides having a lot of extra features and faster FPS, what makes the
D3 more appealing than a 5D?

Click to expand...

The 5D and D3 are two completely different animals geared towards two completely different markets. I for one would prefer to use a D3 for sports as opposed to using a 5D. Come to think of it, I would use the D3 over the 5D for anything (yes, including weddings), given the sensor quality (not that the 5D is bad or anything), the build quality (ok, this is a big one over the 5D), the rear LCD quality (another big one), the FPS (another big one), focusing speed (yep, that too), ergonomics, etc..etc.. etc.. So there are many reasons as far as I'm concerned.

Do I think the 5D is cr@p? Nope.. it's a very nice camera (and this is a compliment coming from a Nikonian!). I once walked into a camera store to quickly test the 5D to see what the hoopla was about.. sure enough, its sensor quality was very nice. But if your goal is to get fast shots from your camera, needing fast and accurate focusing, I think your better bet would be the 1D Mark III (assuming you don't have a faulty production unit), or a D3.

Zeppelin said:

If Canon makes a 16MP 5D II, wouldn't that take the wind out of
Nikon’s sails and sales?

Click to expand...

well, again, different target markets. No wind out of sails for those who need robust build and speed, not resolution.

Cheers,

NRG

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F/8 and be there.
http://www.pbase.com/nrg_alpha/

Not that I intend to change, from canon to nikon, due to lenses I have, but the D3 would be the one I would go for, it is an on paper an excellent all rounder, being damm close to FF, it is a 5D, and then using the lenses for sports it is a 1.5 crop with speed and great AF etc, add the 200-400 F4 it has great potential, the only down side is the cost on nikon lenses, But the way I see it, they have truly bought out a body that is a jack of all trades
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Canon bit and bobs
http://www.madproff.co.uk

I dont find it appealing at all, 2 time the price than the 5D and less pixels
not for me

you can swim with it of course but I dont care

great image quality of the sensor. Apart from that it is an awesome, insanely heavy, overpriced cam.

Load that sensor in a D300 body and sell it for $2300. That would be appealing.

But then again, a 12MP sensor in 2007?

Hoping for a 16MP 5D or D300like FX by beginning / mid 2008.

T3 said:

Canon has been making FF DSLR's for the last half decade, so a new FF
DSLR for Canon is ho-hum, nothing groundbreaking.

But for Nikon, FF digital is something totally new, and for them it
IS ground breaking. Plus, up until now, Nikon's high ISO performance
has mostly sucked, while for Canon it's something that they've been
doing for years and is now taken for granted. Good high ISO
performance from Nikon in a pro body with higher resolution is
something completely new for Nikon. Good high ISO performance from
Canon is no big deal.

Click to expand...

You've missed the point, Pete.

It's not that the D3 is FF.... OR ....that it has high res.... OR ....that it has best-in-class high-ISO performance.

It's that it offers ALL these things in one professional package, plus high speed, pro AF etc etc.

There is no Canon that puts all these things together. The D3 is a 5D and 1D rolled into one, with a bit of 1Ds thrown in. Something Canon don't produce and something even Canon users have been crying out for.

The fact that Nikon, the relative underdog, have pulled this rabbit from their hat when so many Canonites had written them off as irrelevant and/or incapable is all the more surprising for those people. I'm sure even you are more than a little agape at the D3's specs and capabilities. As I've said before, high ISO doesn't matter to me but I am quite surprised that [from the thousands of D3 images around] Nikon have moved at least 1 stop ahead of Canon in this area. Quite a feat.

It is the total package that people are excited about.