Canon or Nikon

I must preface this by saying that I am totally open to all advice and opinions regarding a preference to one or another "Family". I am looking to begin a hobby in photography and I would like to know which "Family" would be best suited for my needs. However, I am not limiting my choices to these two manufactorers, as I will be posting this message on several forums.

I would prefer to start with a budget of about $1,500 including body and lens. I will primarily be photographing family and sports to begin with. For me it has been confusing in talking to many experts on how to get started. Some say get a superzoom, because that is all that I should need. And others suggest starting out with an entry level DSLR.

I am a semi-retired coach who is spending as much time as possible with his two young son's. I have owned an Olympus E-510 briefly and currently own a Panasonic FZ18 and a Casio Ex-V7 (for Disney etc..). I really did not get to realize the full capabilities of the 510 and its 2 lenses. I must admit that I was disappointed with its indoor sports action capabilities and thus returned it for the Panny (which was recommended by my Ritz sales Rep). I have to say that the FZ18 is performed better with action sports, but when comparing all photos in general, I did notice that there was a lot of detail missing in comparison to the OLY.

Finally, I say "Family" because I realize now how expensive and important quality lenses are. So I guess I am asking which family you all would recommend to somebody just starting out. One minor detail that I could live with is size. I do prefer the larger size IE.. d80/40d types, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker.

Looking Forward to your Opinions
Thanks, Dan

Buy a Canon that is supported by CHDK. You probably don't know what I am talking about but look here: http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK_in_Brief .

This is the greatest single advance in photographic history and is currently only available on Canon cameras because of the genius and dedication of software authors, writers, and developers and the price is right. FREE download.
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In Depth

matcat5 said:

I must preface this by saying that I am totally open to all advice
and opinions regarding a preference to one or another "Family". I am
looking to begin a hobby in photography and I would like to know
which "Family" would be best suited for my needs. However, I am not
limiting my choices to these two manufactorers, as I will be posting
this message on several forums.

I would prefer to start with a budget of about $1,500 including body
and lens. I will primarily be photographing family and sports to
begin with. For me it has been confusing in talking to many experts
on how to get started. Some say get a superzoom, because that is all
that I should need. And others suggest starting out with an entry
level DSLR.

I am a semi-retired coach who is spending as much time as possible
with his two young son's. I have owned an Olympus E-510 briefly and
currently own a Panasonic FZ18 and a Casio Ex-V7 (for Disney etc..).
I really did not get to realize the full capabilities of the 510 and
its 2 lenses. I must admit that I was disappointed with its indoor
sports action capabilities and thus returned it for the Panny (which
was recommended by my Ritz sales Rep). I have to say that the FZ18
is performed better with action sports, but when comparing all photos
in general, I did notice that there was a lot of detail missing in
comparison to the OLY.

Finally, I say "Family" because I realize now how expensive and
important quality lenses are. So I guess I am asking which family
you all would recommend to somebody just starting out. One minor
detail that I could live with is size. I do prefer the larger size
IE.. d80/40d types, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker.

Looking Forward to your Opinions
Thanks, Dan

Click to expand...

Dan, you are in the wrong forum for this. Try the dslrs forums for more responses. Here's my take on it anyway. The Oly 510 is a great cam but you have two problems to overcome. One is that there is too much NR applied even at base ISO. To get images that will pop you need to turn the NR off and set the sharpening to -2 as it is pumped up heavy already for the Noise Reduction. The review of the E410 explains this here on DPR.

The other problem and which will effect you the most is using high ISOs. You are not getting the maximum benefit off the Oly compared to the Canon or Nikons. This is because ISO1600 is actually ISO1250 in sensitivity so you are losing crucial shutter speed for indoor sports. If you buy the old 30D, your ISO1600 will actually be ISO2000 which will buy you a hell of a lot more shutter speed.

For your needs and expenditure you should probably get a D80 or in particular a 30D for your money. But the glass is more important than the body and you need fast glass and it don't come cheap. The old Nikon 80-200 f2.8 straight through is a excellent cheap alternative. Or you might get a Sigma 70-200 f2.8 for your mount which is also quite good. Either way both will blow your FZ18 away both in image quality and performance both in speed of the AF and burst rate. The FZ uses heavy noise reduction that smears detail after ISO200. I would be safe in sayin that the Canon 30d would have better IQ at ISO3200 than the FZ18 at ISO400. And that will multipy your shutter speed x 6 times and you will have a shooting speed of five frame a second.
Here is the 30D at ISO1600



Here is the 30D at ISO3200



And loads more ISO1600/3200 in my album here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/patsweb/30DWalk

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Packy

IF your budget is 1500, I would suggest getting a used D80 or 20D for around 650$.

The rest goes to a 70-200 f2.9 lens. You won't be able to squeeze in the Canon L but a Sigma or Tamron or Tokina, whatever will be good. What you want a a good focus rate on both the camera and the lens. I think the Sigma with HSM is almost as quick as the Canon USM. For the wider end, you can look for a kit lens 17-whatever for less than a hundred. This means you have 28-300+mm. Later, you can get a 50mm f1.8 for dirt cheap, and then latter, if you want to you can get a 1.4x teleconverter.

You say you have two sons, and want to capture them indoors playing sports, you need a lens with aperature of 2.8 at least and even then you'll be shooting at 1600 ISO.

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if I made sense, I'm sorry

My choice has narrowed to a 400d or 40D because I found that I have access to various great Canon lenses that I did not know of before this weekend.

Thanks for your help
Dan

Go for the 40D. Your'e able to smash the 400D with it and take a picture of what's left of it ;-)

More Advice?

I would definitely go with a dSLR for serious hobby.

The most difficult choice is indeed the system. Canon, Nikon .... ? Personally I would be considering those and Pentax as the most popular. Pentax is cheap too.

Right now my choice goes for Canon, mostly because it has the broadest line up of dSLR including basic models (XTi), advanced models (20,30,40D), cheaper full frame option (5D) and professional ...

However in order to fully appreciate and benefit from dSLR I would suggesting to take a class or at least do some efforts towards self-education: like working through one of the photography text books.

There is little point in getting the "ultimate tool" until you really know a lot about photography and dSLRs because while you will be learning things, your requiremnts might (and most probably will) change.

So, I would start with one of the good basic used bodies. Right now my choice would be 20D from ebay (500$) possibly. While I'm learning I can put it to heavy use and not worry too much about taking care of it.

Slowly I would be acquiring lenses - only those I really need. Personally I would start with a fixed and fast 50mm. But considering you want to shoot sports you might need a zoom one. I would only buy lenses that can be used on all/most dSLR models so that I can keep my lenses and buy a new body later.

When you have better understanding of your needs and dSLRS you can get a more advanced body based on your needs. By that time there will be more newer models to choose from.

I do not think it is worth to invest lot's of money into tools before you have the knowledge needed.

Another good approach would be to use the cameras you already have until you learn enough. And then think about buying something else.

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Regards,

Ivan

http://www.photosig.com/go/users/view?id=273120
http://vanyagor.livejournal.com/
http://gordeli.fizteh.ru/foto/