D60: A Smashing Success

While I was reviewing lenses today for my unborn D60, I happen to engage a conversation between a visiting Canon Rep and the salesperson I placed my order through a few weeks ago. The rep brought in the new 400mm $7000 lens. Wow!

Here is what he said about the D60:

The D60 is Canon's most popular and largest demand SLR product ever in their history. While the initial orders were slow at first from dealers, the demand (probably because of sites like this and others along with the lower price and word of mouth) has escalated to five (FIVE!) times their projected sales quota.

He said that the rollout for the D60 was (because of the economy) the same as the projected rollout was of the D30 in this country. Therefore, he says, if just the D30 owners upgraded, the distribution would be fine. But nearly 60% of all orders (apparently) are from new buyers who would not have considered a DSLR otherwise. He also suggested that the Internet has helped light a sales explosion of this product.

As far as "who gets what" is concerned, he simply said that depends on the dealer's open to buy credit status. Some smaller local dealers may pay for their orders in advance which would get them priority status on allocations.

--Clint
http://www.pbase.com/moviebear

Its to be expected that most of the initial sales of the D60 is from new buyers since for a lot of D-30 owners, the D60 isn't enough of an upgrade for them to upgrade. (Of course this does not apply to all D-30 owners). I personally am waiting for the body only kit to be released and drop in price before upgrading.

Joo

Movie Bear said:

While I was reviewing lenses today for my unborn D60, I happen to
engage a conversation between a visiting Canon Rep and the
salesperson I placed my order through a few weeks ago. The rep
brought in the new 400mm $7000 lens. Wow!

Here is what he said about the D60:

The D60 is Canon's most popular and largest demand SLR product ever
in their history. While the initial orders were slow at first from
dealers, the demand (probably because of sites like this and others
along with the lower price and word of mouth) has escalated to five
(FIVE!) times their projected sales quota.

He said that the rollout for the D60 was (because of the economy)
the same as the projected rollout was of the D30 in this country.
Therefore, he says, if just the D30 owners upgraded, the
distribution would be fine. But nearly 60% of all orders
(apparently) are from new buyers who would not have considered a
DSLR otherwise. He also suggested that the Internet has helped
light a sales explosion of this product.

As far as "who gets what" is concerned, he simply said that depends
on the dealer's open to buy credit status. Some smaller local
dealers may pay for their orders in advance which would get them
priority status on allocations.

--
Clint
http://www.pbase.com/moviebear

Click to expand...

--- Canon EOS D-30 & PowerShot S100- Maybe one day I'll take a decent picture. In the meantime, I'll blame the equipment.

I would guess the new lower prices (and Nikon following suit with the D100) have also caught the competition with their pants down around their collective knees. I wonder how many E-20N's are going unsold because the price differential has now shrunk so much.

I think right now they've found the "sweet spot" for the high end techies. I hesitated a bit before spending nearly 3K on the D30. The D60 or D100 at 2K?? If I hadn't already made the plunge I would have left skid marks!
Steve

Movie Bear said:

While I was reviewing lenses today for my unborn D60, I happen to
engage a conversation between a visiting Canon Rep and the
salesperson I placed my order through a few weeks ago. The rep
brought in the new 400mm $7000 lens. Wow!

Here is what he said about the D60:

The D60 is Canon's most popular and largest demand SLR product ever
in their history. While the initial orders were slow at first from
dealers, the demand (probably because of sites like this and others
along with the lower price and word of mouth) has escalated to five
(FIVE!) times their projected sales quota.

He said that the rollout for the D60 was (because of the economy)
the same as the projected rollout was of the D30 in this country.
Therefore, he says, if just the D30 owners upgraded, the
distribution would be fine. But nearly 60% of all orders
(apparently) are from new buyers who would not have considered a
DSLR otherwise. He also suggested that the Internet has helped
light a sales explosion of this product.

As far as "who gets what" is concerned, he simply said that depends
on the dealer's open to buy credit status. Some smaller local
dealers may pay for their orders in advance which would get them
priority status on allocations.

--
Clint
http://www.pbase.com/moviebear

Click to expand...

Many serious film shooters passed on the D30 because they still saw film as the better medium.

At 6mp - digital in many film shooters minds - has reached a point where 35mm film resolution has been supassed so their are jumping ship.

I went Digital with the E10 (sold my lenses ) in November of 2000 then got the D30 in May of 2001 now I have the D60 (2 weeks ago). My own observations do indeed confirm better than 35mm scanned resolution. I have a friend at a school who teaches photography and he, throughout this whole transition, has said he was waiting for full frame 6mp. Well, after seeing some sample shots from my D60, he is now trying to get one before a trip to England coming up.

He wanted to wait for full frame - but 6mp, the convience, the cost per picture, the clarity - now digital has reached a price point, and a resolution where he is finally ready to make the jump.

I believe he represents a huge percentage of these 1st time digital SLR buyers.

What we are really seeing before our eyes is the death of film for most 35mm work.--John Mason - Lafayette, IN

John Mason said:

Many serious film shooters passed on the D30 because they still saw
film as the better medium.

At 6mp - digital in many film shooters minds - has reached a point
where 35mm film resolution has been supassed so their are jumping
ship.

I went Digital with the E10 (sold my lenses ) in November of
2000 then got the D30 in May of 2001 now I have the D60 (2 weeks
ago). My own observations do indeed confirm better than 35mm
scanned resolution. I have a friend at a school who teaches
photography and he, throughout this whole transition, has said he
was waiting for full frame 6mp. Well, after seeing some sample
shots from my D60, he is now trying to get one before a trip to
England coming up.

He wanted to wait for full frame - but 6mp, the convience, the cost
per picture, the clarity - now digital has reached a price point,
and a resolution where he is finally ready to make the jump.

I believe he represents a huge percentage of these 1st time digital
SLR buyers.

What we are really seeing before our eyes is the death of film for
most 35mm work.

Click to expand...

And I'm most anxious to see this for myself when I get the D60.

Member said:

John Mason - Lafayette, IN

Click to expand...

--Clint http://www.pbase.com/moviebear

Member said:

What we are really seeing before our eyes is the death of film for
most 35mm work.

Click to expand...

I don't believe we are seeing the death of most 35mm work. Not from the d60, or the d100. As much as I love digital, and it is mostly what I use, lets take a reality check first. 35mm film still makes up for 80% of the business [Pop Photography], and digital sales actually took it's first decline in sales last year. Most experts agree 35mm film will still hold the majority business for at least another decade. Time will tell.

I, and i thnk a lot of others, are not yet jumping ship because of the multiplication factor of DSLR. I'll be jumping ship for the first company able to match the lenses with the size of the CCD. It makes it very hard to have a very wide angle with today's DSLR, and i think they won't have all their potential success as long as this problem exist.

My 2 cents,

Seb.

Movie Bear said:

While I was reviewing lenses today for my unborn D60, I happen to
engage a conversation between a visiting Canon Rep and the
salesperson I placed my order through a few weeks ago. The rep
brought in the new 400mm $7000 lens. Wow!

Here is what he said about the D60:

The D60 is Canon's most popular and largest demand SLR product ever
in their history. While the initial orders were slow at first from
dealers, the demand (probably because of sites like this and others
along with the lower price and word of mouth) has escalated to five
(FIVE!) times their projected sales quota.

He said that the rollout for the D60 was (because of the economy)
the same as the projected rollout was of the D30 in this country.
Therefore, he says, if just the D30 owners upgraded, the
distribution would be fine. But nearly 60% of all orders
(apparently) are from new buyers who would not have considered a
DSLR otherwise. He also suggested that the Internet has helped
light a sales explosion of this product.

As far as "who gets what" is concerned, he simply said that depends
on the dealer's open to buy credit status. Some smaller local
dealers may pay for their orders in advance which would get them
priority status on allocations.

--
Clint
http://www.pbase.com/moviebear

Click to expand...

John Mason said:

Many serious film shooters passed on the D30 because they still saw
film as the better medium.

At 6mp - digital in many film shooters minds - has reached a point
where 35mm film resolution has been supassed so their are jumping
ship.

Click to expand...

Member said:

I believe he represents a huge percentage of these 1st time digital
SLR buyers.

What we are really seeing before our eyes is the death of film for
most 35mm work.
--
John Mason - Lafayette,

Click to expand...

The above pretty much describes me. I am a first time digital shooter. Until the D60, it seemed film was still better unless you went really high dollar. I jumped at the chance to get one of the first cameras, because I was ready and waiting for this increase in resolution and decrease in price.

Having had the D60 for two weeks I am "knocked out" by the quality and size of the prints you can create with this camera. My EOS 1N now becomes a back-up camera only. I would categorize myself as an advanced amateur, not pro. They will sell a lot of these to people who want an interchangeable lens SLR. Gary V http://www.naturalimaging.com

sebMarc said:

I, and i thnk a lot of others, are not yet jumping ship because of
the multiplication factor of DSLR. I'll be jumping ship for the
first company able to match the lenses with the size of the CCD. It
makes it very hard to have a very wide angle with today's DSLR, and
i think they won't have all their potential success as long as this
problem exist.

Click to expand...

A lot of Canon's market, though, is in 300+ mm lenses. A free 1.6x multiplier that doesn't steal light is a great reason for a lot of people to buy a D60.

A very expensive 16-35L only works out to 25 mm, though...

I'm currently chewing on this one.
I have the G2 which I love and
SLR's canon A1 and AE1 which never get used anymore
and my wife's Pentax 5N which is very nice.

The D60 has seriously tempted me.
I'm waiting to read Phil's Nikon 100 review before taking the plunge

The real scary thing is that we all know these things are going to be $1000 for an SLR body in about 12 months :-(

Rob

sebMarc said:

My 2 cents,

Seb.

Movie Bear said:

While I was reviewing lenses today for my unborn D60, I happen to
engage a conversation between a visiting Canon Rep and the
salesperson I placed my order through a few weeks ago. The rep
brought in the new 400mm $7000 lens. Wow!

Here is what he said about the D60:

The D60 is Canon's most popular and largest demand SLR product ever
in their history. While the initial orders were slow at first from
dealers, the demand (probably because of sites like this and others
along with the lower price and word of mouth) has escalated to five
(FIVE!) times their projected sales quota.

He said that the rollout for the D60 was (because of the economy)
the same as the projected rollout was of the D30 in this country.
Therefore, he says, if just the D30 owners upgraded, the
distribution would be fine. But nearly 60% of all orders
(apparently) are from new buyers who would not have considered a
DSLR otherwise. He also suggested that the Internet has helped
light a sales explosion of this product.

As far as "who gets what" is concerned, he simply said that depends
on the dealer's open to buy credit status. Some smaller local
dealers may pay for their orders in advance which would get them
priority status on allocations.

--
Clint
http://www.pbase.com/moviebear

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

well see - I do believe a psycoholgical threshold has been reached with the D60

Many point and shooters have already abondoned film

Just look at walmart and even our local camera store - they are all putting in printers and equipment - not to process film like they used to - but so you can bring in your CF card a do enlargements or printing from your digital medium.

Minolta dropped their APS line

The handwriting is on the wall - the slide will become steeper and quicker than all the experts predict.

as you say - time will tell--John Mason - Lafayette, IN

Robert Holloway said:

I'm currently chewing on this one.
I have the G2 which I love and
SLR's canon A1 and AE1 which never get used anymore
and my wife's Pentax 5N which is very nice.

The D60 has seriously tempted me.
I'm waiting to read Phil's Nikon 100 review before taking the plunge

The real scary thing is that we all know these things are going to
be $1000 for an SLR body in about 12 months :-(

Click to expand...

true, but dont you think you'd get $1200 of use out of it?

i've already shot 800 frames on my d60 in about three weeks. let's do the math.

800 shots / 36 exposure rolls = 22 rolls about

if slide film processed and mounted @ $10 a roll - 220 processing
plus $10 roll purchase price. $440 in three weeks.

if negative film professional processed it jumps to $18 a roll processing fee.

wont be long before i've shot 2200 in photo's.

Robert Holloway said:

Rob

sebMarc said:

My 2 cents,

Seb.

Movie Bear said:

While I was reviewing lenses today for my unborn D60, I happen to
engage a conversation between a visiting Canon Rep and the
salesperson I placed my order through a few weeks ago. The rep
brought in the new 400mm $7000 lens. Wow!

Here is what he said about the D60:

The D60 is Canon's most popular and largest demand SLR product ever
in their history. While the initial orders were slow at first from
dealers, the demand (probably because of sites like this and others
along with the lower price and word of mouth) has escalated to five
(FIVE!) times their projected sales quota.

He said that the rollout for the D60 was (because of the economy)
the same as the projected rollout was of the D30 in this country.
Therefore, he says, if just the D30 owners upgraded, the
distribution would be fine. But nearly 60% of all orders
(apparently) are from new buyers who would not have considered a
DSLR otherwise. He also suggested that the Internet has helped
light a sales explosion of this product.

As far as "who gets what" is concerned, he simply said that depends
on the dealer's open to buy credit status. Some smaller local
dealers may pay for their orders in advance which would get them
priority status on allocations.

--
Clint
http://www.pbase.com/moviebear

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

It doesn't have a "1.6x multiplier", it has a field of view crop. There is no multiplication factor involved, just a simple crop out of the center of the same image that is projected onto the film plane of a 35mm SLR.

Forrest said:

Forrest41926 said:

I, and i thnk a lot of others, are not yet jumping ship because of
the multiplication factor of DSLR. I'll be jumping ship for the
first company able to match the lenses with the size of the CCD. It
makes it very hard to have a very wide angle with today's DSLR, and
i think they won't have all their potential success as long as this
problem exist.

Click to expand...

A lot of Canon's market, though, is in 300+ mm lenses. A free 1.6x
multiplier that doesn't steal light is a great reason for a lot of
people to buy a D60.

A very expensive 16-35L only works out to 25 mm, though...

Click to expand...

--- ChrisNikon CP 990Canon EOS D30

I give film 3 years, 5 if they are lucky from a business sense once sales start declining as fast as they are it puts the companies into a death spiral with no earnings growth and too much overhead. We won't recognize Kodak and Fuji in a few years.

Dimitri Divolich said:

Dimitri Divolich said:

What we are really seeing before our eyes is the death of film for
most 35mm work.

Click to expand...

I don't believe we are seeing the death of most 35mm work. Not
from the d60, or the d100. As much as I love digital, and it is
mostly what I use, lets take a reality check first. 35mm film still
makes up for 80% of the business [Pop Photography], and digital
sales actually took it's first decline in sales last year. Most
experts agree 35mm film will still hold the majority business for
at least another decade. Time will tell.

Click to expand...

but.... would you have taken all those shoots if the camera were not a digital camera? I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison when comparing the price 35mm film/processing to digital because in film, you are conscious of the rolls you are going through..... where as in digital, you can certainly take much more risks with composition, exposure, etc.

I don't have a 35mm film SLR anymore.... and I have taken thousands upon thousands of exposures on my D30 in the 1.5 years that I have had it. If I use your math, I would have spent close to $10,000 on film.... but the reality is, of the pictures that I take on the D30.... only a small percentage ever get printed or even shared on the web....

Also, there are a lot of costs that aren't factored in digital.... The storage, optical backup, inkjet printing cost, software, computer hardware, upgrading your camera, technology depreciation, and.... most importantly....your fiddling, learning, and trial & error time. Sure, one can say that it's faster to shoot digital.... but with a good lab, you simply drop off the roll, and pick up the results....

For me, owning a D30 has made me a better photographer.... no doubt. Am I ready to upgrade? No, because nothing that the D60 offers will save me time or improve the quality of my prints (max A4 size) or expand the kinds of pictures that I take (still the 1.6x multiplier).... and it will increase my total costs for storage, hardware, etc.

JRG-Imaging said:

true, but dont you think you'd get $1200 of use out of it?

i've already shot 800 frames on my d60 in about three weeks. let's
do the math.

800 shots / 36 exposure rolls = 22 rolls about

if slide film processed and mounted @ $10 a roll - 220 processing
plus $10 roll purchase price. $440 in three weeks.

if negative film professional processed it jumps to $18 a roll
processing fee.

wont be long before i've shot 2200 in photo's.

Click to expand...

John Mason said:

well see - I do believe a psycoholgical threshold has been reached
with the D60

Many point and shooters have already abondoned film

Just look at walmart and even our local camera store - they are all
putting in printers and equipment - not to process film like they
used to - but so you can bring in your CF card a do enlargements or
printing from your digital medium.

Minolta dropped their APS line

The handwriting is on the wall - the slide will become steeper and
quicker than all the experts predict.

as you say - time will tell
--
John Mason - Lafayette, IN

Click to expand...

The one hour photo kiosks are already dropping like flies.

Yeah, but...

(1) the D60 will allow you greater compositional freedom to crop (eg if you can't get close enough and need more "zoom")

(2) from my experience 3MP is woefully inadequate for detailed landscape shots- you really do benefit from the extra pixels the D60 offers

(3) the D60 has a vastly superior buffering system for much better response and overall feeling of speed

(4) the D60 also has signficantly superior long-exposure performance (e.g. over 30s or 1 minute) plus you don't have to wait double-time for the black frame subtraction to complete...

so i think there are a number of signficant reasons for upgrading. but that's just me. and i agree with you 100% re: "but you would never shoot that much on film" argument, people always seem to forget this!

Rick Lay said:

Am I ready to upgrade? No, because nothing that the D60
offers will save me time or improve the quality of my prints (max
A4 size) or expand the kinds of pictures that I take (still the

1.6x multiplier).... --------------------------------------i was gonna type something witty here but then i changed my mind.

Click to expand...

Yeah that is true but, a lot of us already had a lot of these things. Most of us own computers, and a lot of them have a large hard drive, Zip drive or even and a burner. Most also a ready had a printer, albeit not a photo one, but a printer. For sure I take a lot more pictures, and in that makes me a better photography!

Ricky

Rick Lay said:

Rick Lay said:

Also, there are a lot of costs that aren't factored in digital....

Click to expand...

The storage, optical backup, inkjet printing cost, software,
computer hardware, upgrading your camera, technology depreciation,
and.... most importantly....your fiddling, learning, and trial &
error time. Sure, one can say that it's faster to shoot
digital.... but with a good lab, you simply drop off the roll, and
pick up the results....

Click to expand...

--Ricky L. JonesCanon Elan II, EOS 3, G1, D60(soon) http://community.webshots.com/user/rljslick

Powder2glass said:

Dimitri Divolich said:

Powder2glass said:

What we are really seeing before our eyes is the death of film for
most 35mm work.

Click to expand...

I don't believe we are seeing the death of most 35mm work. Not
from the d60, or the d100. As much as I love digital, and it is
mostly what I use, lets take a reality check first. 35mm film still
makes up for 80% of the business [Pop Photography], and digital
sales actually took it's first decline in sales last year. Most
experts agree 35mm film will still hold the majority business for
at least another decade. Time will tell.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I won't pretend to be a history expert but remember the CD/Cassette/LP.

The current investment in film equipment won't let things change that fast. Many people don't have a computer, don't want to learn a computer and would rather just take their photos to Wal-Mart if they can avoid all of the above.

Digital cameras for technophobes is a scary prospect. And many won't think about digital until the user interface becomes as easy as hooking up a CD player.

It took from 1984 til the mid 90's before everyone that I know had a CD player. And today, finally after 18 years (and only for the last 5 or 6) you have to go to a specialty store to get LP's. And cassettes are still used.

So just because the convenience and workflow for digital are significantly better, there will be film and film processing at Wal-Mart for at least another 5 to 8 years before you have to go to a better camera store to get it.

My 2 cents.

Rod

http://www.livingartphotos.com--Rod

All your points are correct. However, if you have not already sold your D30 , it makes sense to hold on to it and wait until the D60 body only kit is available in quantity at $1,500 to $1,700.

Warren Prasek said:

(1) the D60 will allow you greater compositional freedom to crop
(eg if you can't get close enough and need more "zoom")

(2) from my experience 3MP is woefully inadequate for detailed
landscape shots- you really do benefit from the extra pixels the
D60 offers

(3) the D60 has a vastly superior buffering system for much better
response and overall feeling of speed

(4) the D60 also has signficantly superior long-exposure
performance (e.g. over 30s or 1 minute) plus you don't have to wait
double-time for the black frame subtraction to complete...

so i think there are a number of signficant reasons for upgrading.
but that's just me. and i agree with you 100% re: "but you would
never shoot that much on film" argument, people always seem to
forget this!

Rick Lay said:

Am I ready to upgrade? No, because nothing that the D60
offers will save me time or improve the quality of my prints (max
A4 size) or expand the kinds of pictures that I take (still the
1.6x multiplier)....

Click to expand...

--
------------------------------------
i was gonna type something witty here but then i changed my mind.

Click to expand...