Pentax Crisis of Faith

Joe
Well,

take a look at this photographer's work. Her name is Keitha McCall:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1036&thread=25406203

Some of the better work to be found on our fair forum imo.

Look at her 40 shots over at flicker:
http://flickr.com/photos/aravis121/sets/72157602739425924/

Now look at which camera she used to get these stunning images...

When you can photograph and pp as well as Keitha, then go and get any
camera you like, it won't really matter though ; ))

Regards,

Nic
Those " sno"bs etc. who want the latest whether they need it or not." already have a source , C* and N*. Here, we just mostly take pictures. Maybe Pentax knows that??

'This is more serious than I thought.....but it is still fun!
http://www.pbase.com/rupertdog Take a look- It's Free!
 
I am also struggling a bit like you - not so much because I don't believe Pentax offers solid value for the money, but rather because the company seems to be lagging the others in terms of lens options (and no - I don't care to buy a bunch of primes and constantly switch them, which isn't a very cost-effective solution either compared to many of the fast focusing, fast glass, better resolution zooms) and announcements of newer camera models. After purchasing a Nikon D40X, which I had converted for infrared photography (after not finding anyone that would touch a K100D or K10D), being extremely impressed with the D40X, and seeing Pentax lagging on its lens availability and not able to announce a successor to the K10D (despite every competitor making an announcement!), I ordered a Nikon D300. I realize that I have some time to make a decision, since I suspect the D300 backlog will be quite long for quite some time.

But apart from Pentax's products, one also has to consider the company - how it stacks up against the competition and the realities of it being able to keep pace with them over time. Pentax is doing better financially over the last 1 1/2 years, but this barely gets them back to break even after 4 years. Some of the competitors are selling as many, if not more DSLRs, in a single month than Pentax sells in a year. It would be a romantic notion for some to believe that Pentax could outmaneuver/out-innovate Canon, Nikon & Sony, but I find that one a bit tough to swallow. In this day and age, when the camera business has, and will at an increasingly faster pace, come to resemble the PC market rather than the historical SLR market many are used to, this is a legitimate concern. We will see the digital cameras improve rapidly due to computer hardware and software technology at a pace that will make previous generations of cameras seem like they were moving at a snail's pace. It is inevitable. At some point, technology may out pace most customers' ability to keep up with the changes and benefit from the improvements, but that hasn't seemed to stop the PC market. With potential for improved algorithms for image processing, dynamic range, low level light performance, auto focus speeds, larger low-cost sensors, etc., etc., - we have quite some way to go. Pentax has to keep pace or be left behind.

I find it a bit ironic that some people criticize you for "wanting too much", when they are shooting K10Ds or K100Ds. I don't see them shooting with 1 or 2 MP (or film for that matter) cameras. And I would bet that most of them likely didn't ride their horses to work, wash their clothes on the rocks in the local stream, fuel their house with firewood that they chopped with an ax, or visit an outhouse lately. What sticks in their craw is that, in asking for more, what you are really doing is in effect saying to them, "your choice (K10D, K100D, K100S, etc.) isn't good enough for me." That's tough for most people to take. And anyone expressing such sentiments surely will suffer the wrath of many of the brand loyal followers. This is a common reaction on this and other forums by those who are loyal beyond reason, can't look at their favorite camera maker with any sense of objectivity, and don't care to hear others tinker with what they have already deemed "acceptable".

From a variety of perspectives, you have a right to be concerned about Pentax's ability to keep pace with this rapidly advancing/changing industry in light of its market share, Pentax's lagging behind with respect to fast glass in zooms that feature high speed auto focus, and the fact that the other companies are not just going to sit back on their "hands" while Pentax sorts these challenges out with its new owner. Just because Pentax's finances have been better for 1 1/2 years, don't count on it to continue if others continue to outspend and out-innovate Pentax.

Having said all this (yes, I know it seems pretty harsh - but sugarcoating the facts rarely helps companies or individuals!), I still hope Pentax can pull it off. They do offer very good value for the money. I think the K10D with a Tamron 28-75 is a top notch landscape, portrait, and general usage lens that is probably tough to beat for the money. And I exercise my K10D quite a bit under challenging conditions - http://www.flickr.com/photos/innerdemon/1801256600/

. If Pentax can continue to improve the in-body image stabilization along the lines that Sony & Olympus have claimed to do, this will be a very strong argument for staying with or switching to the Pentax line. Rounding out the overall lens roadmap and adding some high speed, low cost motors in Pentax lenses similar to those in the low end Nikons and Canons will also help out quite a bit.

To Pentax - Don't rely on blind loyalty of some of your customers to stick with you regardless of what the competitors are doing to provide newer models, more features, more functionality and in the end - more value. Get your b-tt in gear! You have a pretty loyal customer base, but don't try their patience! :)
--
Best Regards,
Bob
http://www.flickr.com/photos/innerdemon/
 
Looking at similar photographs taken with my Ds and my friends Canon
5D I see more detail in the 5D shots. Look at detail of leaves on
trees and such.
Douglas Film
I highly doubt it. You need same size prints for comparison, and you need to judge the photos blind to which is which. And not just once, but several times.
 
--
life is too short, surf waves, own a convertible, and marry for love!

 
If you need US to help you make up YOUR mind about which camera
system to own, WHY are you allowed to sell cameras to people who seek
YOUR advice????
Because I need a second, third, fourth, fifth, seventeenth opinion. People who come in are buying a camera for the first time, or a replacement, or whatever. But I find out what they need in the camera, narrow that down to what they need and what they want, then show them cameras in price points.

But really... I just needed people to tell me to stick with Pentax, because that is ultimately what I want to do. My desire to blow money on camera equipment can still be fulfilled with my quest to build myself a strobe studio setup for as little money as possible without sacrificing quality. That or lenses...
 
I for one, have faith that Pentax will offer new camera models at an acceptable pace to stay competitive. I'm sure Pentax Imaging Division wants to stay in business and will increase the frequency of introductions.

It's funny that people seem not to realize that it takes time to increase their production, and introductions. There is a time frame from conception to manufacturing and distributing new products. A small company does not become huge overnight. They grow at an incrementally increasing pace. The last couple years have shown great improvement over the couple previous to that. I'm confident that the next couple will show even quicker improvements. Each year has to build on the one before. The process seldom works any other way for a manufacturer. I've noticed lots of positive things in regards to their growth and expect it to continue.

It takes time to build factories, train employees, develop new distribution points. If they grow 30-40% a year, they will still seem small for several more years. But such growth would be phenomenal and eventually would get them to the point of being a major player.

I have the patience to wait for this to happen. If you don't, then move on. However, I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years you decide to move back.
 
Jim, I fully agree with you and this has been my point in every discussion about a Pentax FF. They barely survived, the saviour demands profits and that isn't going to come from such a small market as the FF DSLR market. They will jump in once they have P3 in the pocket, and profits reflect the options to invest into a FF. For the time being, they should quickly get QQ and production levels up, otherwise Pentax will end up with a great and promising line up but with no equipment end buyers....

Nevertheless, if I can get my hands on a FF lens I would do that. On an ap-c you still have the advantage of using less of the edges, which will give you better resolution and detail. This is one of the reasons I'm looking forward to the tamron FF 70-200 F2.8.

lock
 
should have first priority now.

The best way to restore or gain faith for Pentax is to be reliable and not a high risk FF engagement.

--
.......
Have a nice day (a picture says more than 1000 words)
Jim

Link to Pentax SLR Forum Best images:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=23551175

Creative attempts:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=24071712

Inspiration Challenge - in depth feedback guaranteed

'Don't overestimate technology - nothing is knowledgefree'

 
Hmm,

Well if you can afford it, change brands every 3 months, that way you'll stay ahead on the tech front! It'll prevent terminal LBA too!

If image quality is all out important, buy the most expensive camera you can afford, FF of-course, and an equally expensive lens too!

Just bare in mind the K100D / Super is today the cheapest DSLR on the market with in-body stabilization and if you compare the street price of the K10D, its possibly the most feature laden model for the money, up there with the best in terms of APS-C IQ and thats with a model over a year old- just!!

I for one am "thankful" to Pentax, based on what they have managed to do, but couldn't say I have faith in them, I just enjoy bolting on both new and old lenses that light meter and perform well, so I can enjoy taking photos, becuase thats what its all about in the end.
 
I find it a bit ironic that some people criticize you for "wanting
too much", when they are shooting K10Ds or K100Ds. I don't see them
shooting with 1 or 2 MP (or film for that matter) cameras. And I
would bet that most of them likely didn't ride their horses to work,
wash their clothes on the rocks in the local stream, fuel their house
with firewood that they chopped with an ax, or visit an outhouse
lately. What sticks in their craw is that, in asking for more, what
you are really doing is in effect saying to them, "your choice (K10D,
K100D, K100S, etc.) isn't good enough for me." That's tough for most
people to take. And anyone expressing such sentiments surely will
suffer the wrath of many of the brand loyal followers. This is a
common reaction on this and other forums by those who are loyal
beyond reason, can't look at their favorite camera maker with any
sense of objectivity, and don't care to hear others tinker with what
they have already deemed "acceptable".
While I agree that market demands are a good way to stir a company forward, I really think these analogies are faulty. You're not comparing "a car with a horse", you're comparing a car with a sportscar. Both will get the job done (if the job is to get you to your workplace) but the regular car can very well offer advangates : better mpg, more confort, etc.

To bring the analogy back to cameras, many users don't need 6 fps bust mode, but would love smaller bodies, better battery life, added features (like SR, eventualy live view, the K10d's controls layout).

Btw, I'm not a Pentax user, so I'm not defending my brand. But I will probably become a Pentax user soon, because Pentax offers the features I want, at a price I like.

--
bdery

Québec city, Canada
C A N O N S 2
C O O L P I X S Q
http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n13/bdery/
 
(and no - I don't care to buy a bunch of primes and constantly switch
them, which isn't a very cost-effective solution either compared to
many of the fast focusing, fast glass, better resolution zooms) and
primes are cheaper than zooms, and primes can have much better ca numbers.

i have yet to see a software solution that will fix ca 100% perfect, because even when the color is shifted over, there is always a mark where it came from... and then there are questions about how much the post-processing affected the overall picture quality.

those are some of the reasons why pentax sells so much prime glass.

--
dan
 
Yes, there are photographers like Keitha who will turn out an
artistic picture from just about any camera.
But Pentax and others could hardly make profits catering for these
photographers alone. They need the "engineers", "collectors", "snobs"
etc. who want the latest whether they need it or not.
And these customers would like to know what is around the corner.
That does make sense.
I
do not think it would harm Pentax commercially to have a Road map for
bodies as well as lenses. That is if they know where they are heading.
The problem is that announcing a body that's not ready to be released is a sure way of letting the (richer) competition know what you're doing. Most companies announce cameras when they're about ready to start production.
--
bdery

Québec city, Canada
C A N O N S 2
C O O L P I X S Q
http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n13/bdery/
 
I was replying to redbird's question, but I agree with you. Full-frame is definitely a niche market, and Pentax isn't exactly targeting the pro users (not to mention pro's only use Canon or Nikon, right? ;).
 

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