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RAW vs JPEG, the DMC-FZ18, and a mystery

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TKinVA said:
Something to meditate on.

The RAW vs JPEG debate isn't that simple.

And it isn't the same for all cameras, especially the FZ18.

http://artzen2.com/artzen2-0046.htm
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That is the problem with things like Internet: too many people saying silly things. The guy that wrote that article does not know pretty simple lens distortion algorithms, software and plugins that are around since ages!!! Someone has to redirect him to ptlens, hugin, etc... PTlens 1.0 came out on September 2002!!!!

L.

--
My gallery: http://w3.impa.br/~luis/fotos



FZee50 + Oly EfEl50 + TeeCon17 + Raynx 150 & 250
Nikn CeePee4500; Cann SDee500
 
You missed the excitement a few weeks back when it was discovered that the FZ18 removed the W/A barrel distortion during the conversion to JPG. Pretty clever chip - and of course it makes perfect sense to do the correction in the camera since it already knows the focal length vs correction algorithm

Sherm
 
I would hope that the RAW image has more dynamic range, though I haven't yet done any tests. That's important for good images of scenes with dark shadow detail and bright highlights.

At the least, the RAW image should have better gradation of tones, that is, more steps of brightness between black and white, than JPG (I know it did in my previous camera - Minolta A1, which had 12 bit colour in RAW but only 8 bit for the JPG. That means that there's more detail potentially to be brought out by PP in shadows.

David
 
...with that lengthy read. If that guy can not get better than JPG results, he needs to improve his workflow. I use Lightroom and get not only more detail but can make most if not all adjustments at the RAW level exploiting all 12-bits vs. trying to pull something out from a compressed 8-bit JPG. -Norm
TKinVA said:
Something to meditate on.

The RAW vs JPEG debate isn't that simple.

And it isn't the same for all cameras, especially the FZ18.

http://artzen2.com/artzen2-0046.htm

--
My museum: http://timuseum.com
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--

PBase supporter
 
You're absolutely right.

The barrel distortion is maximum at 28mm equivalent and then fades at longer focal lengths.

The camera obviously knows the focal length and applies the appropriate correction.

The folks working in RAW won't have it quite that easy.

And they won't get extra points for degree of difficulty.
sherman_levine said:
You missed the excitement a few weeks back when it was discovered
that the FZ18 removed the W/A barrel distortion during the conversion
to JPG. Pretty clever chip - and of course it makes perfect sense to
do the correction in the camera since it already knows the focal
length vs correction algorithm

Sherm
Click to expand...
 
I generally use PTLens for correction, but that program does not yet support the FZ18, but I'm guessing that it's a matter of time before it will. Heck, you can't even buy OEM accessories for this camera yet from even Panasonic! -Norm
TKinVA said:
nboyer said:
TKinVA said:
Something to meditate on.

The RAW vs JPEG debate isn't that simple.

And it isn't the same for all cameras, especially the FZ18.

http://artzen2.com/artzen2-0046.htm

--
My museum: http://timuseum.com
Click to expand...
--

PBase supporter
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PBase supporter
 
Norm,

You do realize that the article was specifically about the Panasonic DMC-FZ18 and its internal processing vs RAW, and not about all digital cameras in general?

The writer seems to feel that the FZ18 is an exceptional case and should be considered as such.
nboyer said:
TKinVA said:
nboyer said:
TKinVA said:
Something to meditate on.

The RAW vs JPEG debate isn't that simple.

And it isn't the same for all cameras, especially the FZ18.

http://artzen2.com/artzen2-0046.htm

--
My museum: http://timuseum.com
Click to expand...
--

PBase supporter
Click to expand...
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PBase supporter
Click to expand...
 
TKinVA said:
Something to meditate on.

The RAW vs JPEG debate isn't that simple.

And it isn't the same for all cameras, especially the FZ18.

http://artzen2.com/artzen2-0046.htm

--
My museum: http://timuseum.com
Click to expand...
Here we go again.

Makes me wonder: Exactly how many angels CAN dance on the head of a pin?

I really like the blogger's friend's answer to this question:
TKinVA said:
TKinVA said:
TKinVA said:
He'd had it for a week, so I asked him what sort of pictures he'd taken with his new camera. "I haven't used it yet," he told me. Why not, I asked? "I have to wait until I can get the latest version of Photoshop and Adobe Camera Raw that support the G9." So why not just shoot some pictures at the highest-quality JPEG setting? "The results won't be as good," he said.
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So he didn't take any pictures at all.......

By this reasoning, we should all await the upcoming 2050 models, at least, before committing to take a picture.

To me, that sort of puts the whole RAW controversy into perspective.

This is, of course, just opinion: My opinion.

Your mileage may vary, as "They" say.

-Erik

--

 
...I did realize that the author was specific to the FZ18. My experience is quite the opposite. I've used many RAW converters extensively, not just download for a 30-day trial. I am most comfortable with Lightroom and it pulls the most detail out of the RAW files from my Panasonic L1 as well as the FZ18. I've become proficient and have a good workflow. I can consistently get better results from the RAW file, it works for me. If one is pleased with the JPG results, that's great. If you don't print large, i.e. beyond 5x7 or so, I believe the JPG's will serve you well. If you print 16x20's as I do, RAW will get you alot further. -Norm
TKinVA said:
You do realize that the article was specifically about the Panasonic
DMC-FZ18 and its internal processing vs RAW, and not about all
digital cameras in general?

The writer seems to feel that the FZ18 is an exceptional case and
should be considered as such.
nboyer said:
TKinVA said:
nboyer said:
TKinVA said:
Something to meditate on.

The RAW vs JPEG debate isn't that simple.

And it isn't the same for all cameras, especially the FZ18.

http://artzen2.com/artzen2-0046.htm

--
My museum: http://timuseum.com
Click to expand...
--

PBase supporter
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PBase supporter
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PBase supporter
 
Erm people for those who haven't noticed the OP (TKinVA) is the person who wrote the webpage artical!

Tony,

the only time barrel distortion or any distortion appears in the RAW vs Jpeg is at full 28mm, once any zoom is applied there's no distortion to correct (very clever lens)

it takes less than 2 seconds to correct the RAW 28mm distortion, all you need to do in Silkypix is click on 'Lens' (left hand side)

then on new pop-up window you will see 'Dist rate' set that to -11 and you're done! (except as a plus you still get a slightly wider photo than the Jpeg version :o) )

Cheers,
Dcuk
 
Tony -

I've enjoyed reading your response to the FZ18 over the past few weeks, and your blog actually helped in my decision to send back my H9 as well (even before it was opened) and go for the FZ18.

Thanks for the perspective.

--
Flat Rockland
 
You will enjoy the FZ18.

The H9 appears to have been designed by the marketing department rather than the engineering department.
--
The artist's muse: http://artmuse2.com
flat_rockland said:
Tony -

I've enjoyed reading your response to the FZ18 over the past few
weeks, and your blog actually helped in my decision to send back my
H9 as well (even before it was opened) and go for the FZ18.

Thanks for the perspective.

--
Flat Rockland
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