40D AF Issues: What is your experience?

Clint Thayer

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Despite the otherwise good reviews, I get the sense that at least in one major review, multiple point AF is next to useless on this camera. Then, in another review, his 17-85 copy may not focus correctly.

I have a new lens arriving today for my own tests. What have been your experience?

--
Clint Thayer
 
Relevant experience to me is BIF, model aircraft, full size aircraft and soccer or other sports.

Thanks
 
get the OOF image, or the image focuses on something other than where the focus point indicates it should be focused. But it happen far less often.

I only use the center point (kids soccer) as they are grouped so close together most of the time the focus jumps all over the place.

I haven't tried to track any birds or aircraft.

I haven't really tried out the outer AF points either as of yet. I think I'll have to give it a try though, based on the IR review problems.

Gene
 
Which review said 40D autofocus was useless?
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Allan in Colorado, USA
 
It's not something new to the 40D. The fact is that if you use multipoint AF, the camera will simply need to guess as to what you want in focus. How can it possibly know where in the scene you want the focus to be placed? That's how it works on my 20D.

I've never understood:

A: How multipoint AF algorithms work - just pick the nearest item? Choose a distance that splits the difference between farthest and nearest? Choose a distance that has the most points giving the same reading? Geeze none of that should work very well :)

B: How anyone can imagine that such a system ever could work.

Unless the camera can read my mind and select the point that lies on the place in the scene where I want to focus, I just don't get it at all. And that wouldn't be multi-point AF, it'd be mind-controlled single point AF.

Needless to say, I either focus manually or select the AF point by hand. Effectively, manual selection of the AF point IS mind-controlled single-point AF, I guess. And manual focus is even faster and better in many situations - it's direct mind-controlled focus with infinite "points".

Multi-point AI-Servo is an exception, I guess, because it's supposed to lock onto the center point first and then hand-off the focus to another point if the subject appears to move within the frame. Still pretty dodgy-sounding if you ask me, but some people say that it actually kind of works. With more points, and with color and contrast detection, the new Nikons may show us a way for AI-Servo to really work well with multiple points. But I really don't see how it can work well with so few points as we've got in these current XXD bodies.

Am I missing something, or is multi-point AF with so few points sort of - well - pointless?

Please note that I'm not knocking the 40D or any of these bodies. To me, they do exactly what I'd expect them to do. Really, it's quite amazing and I have NO complaints about my 40D's AF performance. But I simply do not expect magic or supernatural ability from the system. Thus, my (I think) more realistic expectations of the system lead me to be more satisfied with it.

In single point mode, my 40D focuses dead on within the limits of the actual area being "viewed" by the AF "points" and all of the other constraints of the system.

I'd like to read the review(s) that knock the 40D's multi-point AF performance because I'd be curious to know what it is that they expected the system to do. Maybe my expectations are unreasonably low.

The one thing I have read on here that I believe is that the 40D is faster. And that extra speed causes it to abandon focus lock and re-acquire again quickly if the subject is moved away from the focus point in the frame while you're in AI-Servo.

So it'd be nice to have an adjustment to provide a bit of a delay before the camera abandons focus lock and starts searching again. That would make life a lot easier for BIF and sports shooters. Maybe that's what you're seeing. And I agree that I can see how this could be a problem, but not really related to multi-point directly IMO. As I understand it, the 1-Series bodies do have an adjustment for this. I wish the 40D had it too.

I have not done a lot of BIF shooting so this extra speed has not been a problem for me yet with my 40D versus my 20D. And with all of my lenses, I have to say that my 40D focuses right on the money. And it's noticeably faster than the 20D was. So for me, the 40D has been a good improvement in AF performance over the 20D. But again, I have not done much BIF shooting, so that's one situation I cannot comment about from personal experience.

I think you'll probably be happy with your 40D and the new lens. But for BIF shooting, that might be where you'll find it to be "too fast". And it's always possible to get a lens or body that is not calibrated properly. But I think it's more rare than one might imagine based on reading these forums.

Good luck with the new lens and the camera. I think you'll most likely be very happy.

--
Jim H.
 
I've had my 40D for nearly 3 weeks and I initially did have occasional trouble shooting birds with it grabbing the background but now i put this down to perhaps asking too much when I'm not filling the frame with only the intended subject.

But shooting motorsports at Laguna Seca last weekend I was having no trouble tracking AI Servo with all points on a 40D. I think it worked just as well as my 1DM2N which I also carried.

I have not tested One Shot on the 40D very much but it does seem a little more delayed than the 1DM2N. I never use all points with One Shot on a XXD or XXXD because there are not enough points in the middle compared to the XD with it's 45-point ring of fire.
 
Clint,

There are SOME situations where ALL focus points selected becomes useful (ex. Birds in flight against non-busy/sky background). In this type of situation, the all-focus point selection has no problem nailing/keeping the AF on the subject.

However, if all focus points are selected and the subject you are tracking is faced with a busy background, the AF will have no choice but to lock onto the background or a subject NOT intended. If you like using all focus points selected for tracking a subject, you MUST pump the shutter button to "re-focus" and refresh the AF to stay on your subject.

Most professionals never use expanded or all-focus points/"ring of fire" for tracking subjects (ex. sports) because it tends to make the AF points "sticky" and not as responsive (as it will cling to backgrounds/subjects with the most contrasty lines). SO your best bet is to use the central AF point (for a more precise and instinctively faster AF responce). Plus, the central AF point has just the perfect timing when you shift from one subject/object to the next.

Hope this helps.
 
"However, there have been quite a few situations where the Canon 40D kept on seeking when the 20D just quickly found and locked focus, specifically when the 40D was in Multi-point AF mode. I've found a few situations where the Canon 40D just seeks and seeks, and never stops. Most cameras give up after a few seconds. This is the first autofocus SLR of any make that I've seen do this. You can turn Focus Seek off in the Custom Function menu, but that still doesn't stop the endless seeking. Oddly, this occurs more for me in vertical mode.

In horizontal mode, Dave had a heck of a time getting the Canon 40D's top center AF point to focus on Marti's hair during the indoor shots. Hair isn't the best place to focus, of course, but it works well enough when we do it with other cameras. In Dave's case, the camera said it was in focus, but it was either front- or back-focusing.

When shooting a soccer match in AI Servo mode recently, the Canon 40D had a hard time finding and keeping focus on my subject. It was usually okay if I could keep the player over the center point, but not always. It still randomly focused many yards behind a player for one frame, then snapped back to proper focus, then back out. Soccer is an extreme example -- and I am spoiled by shooting the 1D Mark II N, and even the 1D Mark III -- but the 20D does better than the 40D in these situations. I got better results shooting in AI Focus mode, which is probably more appropriate for a more random movement game like soccer."

--
Clint Thayer
 
If the target is large enough to exceed multi-point coverage then multi-point AF works great "provided" you have set the DOF properly (assuming you want to shoot targets with depth as versus those defined by a single or very narrow plane). Otherwise I think it pays to stick with single-point AF because YOU are in control and limited only by your ability to keep the AF point on high contrast target area.

Regards,

Joe Kurkjian, Pbase Supporter



SEARCHING FOR A BETTER SELF PORTRAIT
 
"However, there have been quite a few situations where the Canon 40D
kept on seeking when the 20D just quickly found and locked focus,
specifically when the 40D was in Multi-point AF mode. I've found a
few situations where the Canon 40D just seeks and seeks, and never
stops. Most cameras give up after a few seconds. This is the first
autofocus SLR of any make that I've seen do this. You can turn Focus
Seek off in the Custom Function menu, but that still doesn't stop the
endless seeking. Oddly, this occurs more for me in vertical mode.
The custom function III-1 turns off lens drive when AF is impossible. Surely if theirs carried on hunting when instructed to do so would suggest they were testing a faulty unit.

My 40D does not seek and seek AF at all.

Cheers
 
i definitely haven't found to be the case at all, the opposite moreso. the 20D is the one can stumble and get lost. i think maybe their unit was bad. 40d seems much sure and assertive in its AF actions especially at night than the 20D.

that said i have not at all been happy with 300 2.8 + 1.4x II + 40D for soccer. many, actually a very large marjority have focus off by like half a foot, semi-sharp but not really. i wish they put the darn microcalib in the darn firmware as i could then verify quickly if it is just calibration off, the ai servo failing to keep up, or something else (and the first two cases at least partly account for it on my own, don'thave time ot be sending cameras away during the season and miss the limited chances once gets at games).

300 2.8 alone was better, but still didn't seem to always lock on, like maybe a few inches behind, rarely in front, where 1 series, so long as it was on the target, it was on the target! even 400 2.8 at 2.8 with razor thing DOF the mkiin locked the focus down to the centimeter!

the 40D does seem much snappier. pointing at some signs while someone was driving car, 20D sometimes hesitated or got confused and 40D didn't. 40D tracked it much more snappily. (although when looked at many were not quite in focus though, i did shoot through window though so that may have been the cause for that, window glass is not so uniform at all).

and for some night soccer, the 40D did seem to grab it better than 20D, i think i can say for sure (although the loss of 1/3+ stop of light is soemwhat hurtful for night sports) now it can do better for night soccer, even as body is.

during bright sun though i'm not quite sure what to say yet. it seems to track and snap on faster but i don't seem to get the 90% dead on focus like bryanp says he gets. i do get plenty dead on, but also a good number where the focus is trailing a bit or where it is close to focused, fairly sharpish but definitely not quite on. not sure if it is some weird ai servo thing, it's just not a 1-series or if my body is just slightly backfocusing (since it is more often off to the back than to the front), at least in ai servo mode. or maybe the faster tracking and zip is making me expect too much perfection. especially with soccer and at elite college level for any sport, so much fast juking and changing and not always lots of time to let it start pre-tracking, maybe only a 1 series can track that closer to dead on.

i feel like it is universally doing noticeably better than the 20D while using it, but then looking at day game photos up close, i'm a bit less certain. i've had few chances at day games so far so also makes it harder to say.

i haven't used multi much. i tried it a bit for soccer. when there was not distraction for it, it actually seemed to do it pretty well, way better than 20D, but the problem is far too often there are too many distracting objects around for the far spacing of the sensors. so it's nothing like the near af expansion cluster around center in a 1 series. if they had put in some close hidden ones i think they would've had something. the outer seem to be able to track now much better.
"However, there have been quite a few situations where the Canon 40D
kept on seeking when the 20D just quickly found and locked focus,
specifically when the 40D was in Multi-point AF mode. I've found a
few situations where the Canon 40D just seeks and seeks, and never
stops. Most cameras give up after a few seconds. This is the first
autofocus SLR of any make that I've seen do this. You can turn Focus
Seek off in the Custom Function menu, but that still doesn't stop the
endless seeking. Oddly, this occurs more for me in vertical mode.

In horizontal mode, Dave had a heck of a time getting the Canon 40D's
top center AF point to focus on Marti's hair during the indoor shots.
Hair isn't the best place to focus, of course, but it works well
enough when we do it with other cameras. In Dave's case, the camera
said it was in focus, but it was either front- or back-focusing.

When shooting a soccer match in AI Servo mode recently, the Canon 40D
had a hard time finding and keeping focus on my subject. It was
usually okay if I could keep the player over the center point, but
not always. It still randomly focused many yards behind a player for
one frame, then snapped back to proper focus, then back out. Soccer
is an extreme example -- and I am spoiled by shooting the 1D Mark II
N, and even the 1D Mark III -- but the 20D does better than the 40D
in these situations. I got better results shooting in AI Focus mode,
which is probably more appropriate for a more random movement game
like soccer."

--
Clint Thayer
 
For one shot focus using centre or ANY focus point, my 40D is spot on.

For AI Servo, using centre point focus, the 40D was excellent in a recent road cycling race. Held focus brilliantly for riders coming head on and passing me while I panned.

For AI Focus, with ducks on a pond, focus was again excellent, holding focus when the subject was passing behind grass, other birds etc- using any focus point (centre or other).

Haven't tried multipoint focus or bif yet.
 
Focus is covered in this review with focus issue of non stop hunting on the following page -click link and scroll down...

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E40D/E40DA.HTM

Looks like the 20D does better in some cases when it comes to AF...

Has this been your experience? Toying with the idea of a 40D and AF will be key decision maker - so yes please share your experiences.

--

“Besides what do I know … all my photos are really just a string of ones and zeros!”
 
Blaize,

with respect, your entire posting has already pretty much been asked and answered in previous postings in this very thread, including a very sensible dismissal of the review you linked to...
 
point taken. i need to brush up on the speed reading. just re-read post. thanks for pointing that out.
--

“Besides what do I know … all my photos are really just a string of ones and zeros!”
 
I haven't had a chance to handle a 40D yet (still in quite short supply here) but I found MF just about impossible on the 30D/D80 because of the small VFs and my 54 years old eyes. Is the 40D any more useable?
 
I got the "S" screen & it works well (even with my slow 400 5.6)

I sometimes use the Live view to check my manual focus on smallish/distant objects & they're almost always spot on (my eyes are pretty old too!)
 

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