Canon D60 question - built in flash.

Still waiting for mine. I have been pouring over the PDF Manual I downloaded and I have a question for those who have their D60 in hand and can functionally answer this question.

The sections on flash operation do not appear to spell out the functions of the "flash" button that is on the left front of the body (as you aim the D60). It is the one identified in the nomenclature with a lightening bolt icon.

On both my Pro90IS and my G1, a similar if not identical (in function) button exists. In both cases the button cycles through flash options of "flash operates", "flash operates with red eye reduction", and "flash override" (indicated by the lightening bolt overlaid with the NOT circle and diagonal striike icon.

I can find only one brief mention of the D60 "flash"button" in the manual. It mentions only that in some of the Basic-side shooting modes a press of the button will pop up and utilize the built-in flash under any conditions.

The D60 sets red eye reduction through the menus, so the "flash" button's function is not entirely the same....

What I am trying to find out is if there is a flash override similar to the Pro90IS and G1/G2, etc.

Frank P

I think you are referring to the button that causes the internal flash unit to pop-up and be usable.

Note that it can be used in various modes to "force" the flash to be used. For example in Program AE mode if you force the flash "up", it will fire when taking a picture, if you keep it down, you can force it not to fire.

Works a little different than some of the Point/Shoot flash, where you can cycle the thing.

There is also a Custom Function for setting the red-eye reduction, etc.

Frank Patton said:

Still waiting for mine. I have been pouring over the PDF Manual I
downloaded and I have a question for those who have their D60 in
hand and can functionally answer this question.

The sections on flash operation do not appear to spell out the
functions of the "flash" button that is on the left front of the
body (as you aim the D60). It is the one identified in the
nomenclature with a lightening bolt icon.

On both my Pro90IS and my G1, a similar if not identical (in
function) button exists. In both cases the button cycles through
flash options of "flash operates", "flash operates with red eye
reduction", and "flash override" (indicated by the lightening bolt
overlaid with the NOT circle and diagonal striike icon.

I can find only one brief mention of the D60 "flash"button" in the
manual. It mentions only that in some of the Basic-side shooting
modes a press of the button will pop up and utilize the built-in
flash under any conditions.

The D60 sets red eye reduction through the menus, so the "flash"
button's function is not entirely the same....

What I am trying to find out is if there is a flash override
similar to the Pro90IS and G1/G2, etc.

Frank P

Click to expand...

Dan,

It is not clear to me how you "keep it down". I have a fellow associate who already has a D60. She cannot figure out how to block the flash. There is a Custom Function (13 or thereabouts) where you can set from among a combination of (4) settings regarding the focus assist beam and flash. It's like:

Flash ON, Assist OFF
Flash ON, Assist ON
Flash OFF, Assist ON
and
Flash OFF, Assist OFF

It appears to her that this is really controlling only the assist beam. i.e if the flash is on, the assist is also on; or, if the flash is off, the assist is on anyway, etc...

Despite the settings of this Custom Function, the flash is popping up to fire in situations where it is not desired. I have not seen or handled the camera, but I cannot find any references in the PDF manual on how to accomplish defeating the flash at will.

Frank

Dan Zenzel said:

Note that it can be used in various modes to "force" the flash to
be used. For example in Program AE mode if you force the flash
"up", it will fire when taking a picture, if you keep it down, you
can force it not to fire.

Works a little different than some of the Point/Shoot flash, where
you can cycle the thing.

There is also a Custom Function for setting the red-eye reduction,
etc.

Frank Patton said:

Still waiting for mine. I have been pouring over the PDF Manual I
downloaded and I have a question for those who have their D60 in
hand and can functionally answer this question.

The sections on flash operation do not appear to spell out the
functions of the "flash" button that is on the left front of the
body (as you aim the D60). It is the one identified in the
nomenclature with a lightening bolt icon.

On both my Pro90IS and my G1, a similar if not identical (in
function) button exists. In both cases the button cycles through
flash options of "flash operates", "flash operates with red eye
reduction", and "flash override" (indicated by the lightening bolt
overlaid with the NOT circle and diagonal striike icon.

I can find only one brief mention of the D60 "flash"button" in the
manual. It mentions only that in some of the Basic-side shooting
modes a press of the button will pop up and utilize the built-in
flash under any conditions.

The D60 sets red eye reduction through the menus, so the "flash"
button's function is not entirely the same....

What I am trying to find out is if there is a flash override
similar to the Pro90IS and G1/G2, etc.

Frank P

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

If you are shooting in the full auto mode (the green square) the flash will fire whenever the camera thinks it is necessary. You can shoot in program mode (P) will give you control of when you want the flash or not, that is when you push the lightning bolt button on the left side.

Hope this helps.--Jeff http://www.pbase.com/jblatnik/

there are two ways to operate the camera - pre programed modes which canon calls their "basic zone" and more manual and controllable modes which canon calls their "creative zone". Full Auto - the green square - is between these two modes. If you shoot in any of the modes past the Green Rectangle - P Tv Av M Adep - the "creative zone" then the flash is under your control. If you don't press the flash button you refer to - it won't pop up automatically.

If you shoot in full auto - green rectangle - then the camera will pop the flash up when you need it.

The other modes on the basic zone the flash will pop up automatically except in landscape and sports basic zone modes.

--John Mason - Lafayette, IN

if your pdf file matches my D60 manual you'll see this layed out and described better than I did on page 86 and 87.

enjoy!--John Mason - Lafayette, IN

John,

Thanks for that excellent response. I guess interpretation of Page 86 is easier if you have the camera in hand. I do not have mine yet and am trying to help an associate who does have hers. I have not had her camera in my hands since her question came up. I have been trying to help her via email.

I have partially understood the very short section on Page 86 covering flash in the Basic Zone, stating that except in Landscape and Sports modes the flash fires automatically. But, it says nothing about whether this can be overriden. My Pro90 and G1 also fire the flash automatically, but a dedicated button allows that to be overriden.

In particular she is trying to override the flash in the close-up mode of the Basic side. She has not had success.

The Creative Zone section of Page 86 is one-half of a clam-shell as far as information is concerned (to me with no camera in hand). It says you "can" take flash pictures by simply pressing the flash button to pop up the flash at any time, REGARDLESS OF LIGHTING CONDITIONS.

Why is this confusing? Because of the "regardless of lighting conditions" portion of the statement. That made it appear to me that it applied "IF" conditions did not "cause" the flash to pop up. It does not talk about any control if the conditions "do" cause the flash to pop up. And there is nothing there that says that on the Creative Side the flash will NOT pop up unless you make it. It doesn't come out and say that, and it's difficult to percieve without the camera in hand.

Your excellent help conveys that on the Creative Side the shooter MUST CAUSE the flash to operate via the Flash Button.

Thanks, you explained a lot!

I'm guessing that you know of no way to defeat the flash on the Basic Side (other than in Sports and Landscape). I think she tried CF(5) and that did not work.

Frank P

(Camera World???? If you are reading this - SEE HOW MUCH I "NEED" my D60 ????? P - L - E - A - S - E ? ? ? ? )

John Mason said:

if your pdf file matches my D60 manual you'll see this layed out
and described better than I did on page 86 and 87.

enjoy!
--
John Mason - Lafayette, IN

Click to expand...

If there's anything (that makes electronic contact) in the hotshoe, the flash won't pop up. I use a remote sync, usually on the camera (it's easiest that way), but it prohibits the popup. Using a PC sync has no effect on it though.
bartone

Frank Patton said:

Still waiting for mine. I have been pouring over the PDF Manual I
downloaded and I have a question for those who have their D60 in
hand and can functionally answer this question.

The sections on flash operation do not appear to spell out the
functions of the "flash" button that is on the left front of the
body (as you aim the D60). It is the one identified in the
nomenclature with a lightening bolt icon.

On both my Pro90IS and my G1, a similar if not identical (in
function) button exists. In both cases the button cycles through
flash options of "flash operates", "flash operates with red eye
reduction", and "flash override" (indicated by the lightening bolt
overlaid with the NOT circle and diagonal striike icon.

I can find only one brief mention of the D60 "flash"button" in the
manual. It mentions only that in some of the Basic-side shooting
modes a press of the button will pop up and utilize the built-in
flash under any conditions.

The D60 sets red eye reduction through the menus, so the "flash"
button's function is not entirely the same....

What I am trying to find out is if there is a flash override
similar to the Pro90IS and G1/G2, etc.

Frank P

Click to expand...

Lawrence,

Do you mean that a RS-80N3 will do the job? Or do you mean something on the hot shoe, like a ST-E2?

Frank

Laurence Bartone said:

Frank Patton said:

Still waiting for mine. I have been pouring over the PDF Manual I
downloaded and I have a question for those who have their D60 in
hand and can functionally answer this question.

The sections on flash operation do not appear to spell out the
functions of the "flash" button that is on the left front of the
body (as you aim the D60). It is the one identified in the
nomenclature with a lightening bolt icon.

On both my Pro90IS and my G1, a similar if not identical (in
function) button exists. In both cases the button cycles through
flash options of "flash operates", "flash operates with red eye
reduction", and "flash override" (indicated by the lightening bolt
overlaid with the NOT circle and diagonal striike icon.

I can find only one brief mention of the D60 "flash"button" in the
manual. It mentions only that in some of the Basic-side shooting
modes a press of the button will pop up and utilize the built-in
flash under any conditions.

The D60 sets red eye reduction through the menus, so the "flash"
button's function is not entirely the same....

What I am trying to find out is if there is a flash override
similar to the Pro90IS and G1/G2, etc.

Frank P

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

its funny - I got my D30 last may and now have had the D60 a couple of weeks. I have never ever used any of the setting on the "basic side" but from what the manual has said I don't know of any way to prevent the automatic popup. But - the P choice on the creative side is real easy to use and puts you in control. It'll pick a shutter speed and f stop based on the lighting but a subtlety many don't realize is that you can rotate either dial on the camera and "shift" the program. Turn the dial one way and your shutter speed will slow down and the F stop increase. Turn the dial the other way and your Shutter speed will speed up and your F stop will decrease. This way you can balance your needs for the task at hand. Faster shutter for action - for tripod and maco work - slower shutter and more stopped down lens for depth of field.

So as soon as you can have your friend get comfortable with the creative zone side of the fence - the flash problems will dissapear - but she'll have to no what she wants more.

--John Mason - Lafayette, IN

John,

Yes, I agree. I understand that her concern was using the close-up and or portrait modes on the Basic side, not necessarily to subsitute for more diligent work that's possible on the Creative side, but instead for speed.

Dial, Shoot, be discrete.

It's difficult to be discrete when the flash pops up and fires.

I still see some confusion. In addition to the PDF manual, I have printed out the reviews both from this site, and from Steve's Digicams. Go to Page 7 on the DPREVIEW review:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneosd60/page7.asp

They say there, in their review, that on the Basic side, the internal flash actions are:

Green Box - - - Automatic Pop Up
Portrait - - - Automatic Pop Up
Landscape - - - Disabled
Close Up - - - Disabled (????? not happening on hers)
Sports - - - Disabled
Night Scene - - - Manual

That's certainly not a Canon official publication, but it certainly is different. It essentially say the ONLY automatic pop up modes are the Green Box and Portrait.....

Frank

John Mason said:

its funny - I got my D30 last may and now have had the D60 a couple
of weeks. I have never ever used any of the setting on the "basic
side" but from what the manual has said I don't know of any way to
prevent the automatic popup. But - the P choice on the creative
side is real easy to use and puts you in control. It'll pick a
shutter speed and f stop based on the lighting but a subtlety many
don't realize is that you can rotate either dial on the camera and
"shift" the program. Turn the dial one way and your shutter speed
will slow down and the F stop increase. Turn the dial the other
way and your Shutter speed will speed up and your F stop will
decrease. This way you can balance your needs for the task at
hand. Faster shutter for action - for tripod and maco work -
slower shutter and more stopped down lens for depth of field.

So as soon as you can have your friend get comfortable with the
creative zone side of the fence - the flash problems will dissapear

• but she'll have to no what she wants more.

--
John Mason - Lafayette, IN

Click to expand...

Frank Patton said:

Lawrence,
Do you mean that a RS-80N3 will do the job? Or do you mean
something on the hot shoe, like a ST-E2?

Click to expand...

I don't know what those are... I rarely shoot with an on-camera flash. I was referring to a 'pocket-wizard' sync/slave system versus a pc sync cord, both for controlling and firing an off-camera strobe system. Just pointing out that if there's anything at all on the hot shoe, the on-camera strobe won't raise and fire -- it's completely inoperative.
Laurence Bartone