-
Welcome to the new forums! Please read this first. For known issues we are working to resolve, click here.
D3 and D300 AF modues ARE the same
- Thread starter Greg Terzian
- Start date
knickerhawk
Veteran Member
Sure, it's possible, but with the same number and type of sensors, same parameters, same micro-adjustment capability, it's a little hard for me to believe that Nikon would deliberately dumb down one version somehow and try to pull a fast one. If they're really different in the all-important critical performance category, why fail to note that somewhere, somehow in the marketing literature? All it would take is some differentiation such as "Cam 3500FX offers industry-leading performance and Cam 3500DX offers best-in-class performance" or something like that.Well the number 3500 simply refers to the sampling locations used in
the AF sensorso it's quite possible to have two 3500 sensors
that are different (I agree that the algorithms and such like will
have a big impact).
Another possibility is that the firmware in the D300 isn't as close to completion as that used in the D3. It seems like the D300 development has lagged behind the D3. Just idle speculation on my part...
Yep!
--
My photos: http://www.pbase.com/imageiseverything/root
Radz108
Leading Member
Could the differences some people are seeing in the AF performance between both cameras be due to the amount of battery charge left in each camera? I have noticed with my D200 and D70 before that if the battery charge left in camera is getting low, things don't work as well. My cameras tend to hunt a bit more, VR doesn't work very well etc. etc. Since so many people are testing the D300 at these expos, maybe the batteries are just getting drained to the point that its is affecting performance (playing with liveview, chimping etc. etc takes a toll on the battery) SInce the D3 Battery is that much bigger and holds more charge, it probably drains less than the smaller D300 battery. Thus, the OP might have used the D300 camera with a full charge in the battery thus his results were different from others who may have a drained battery. All this means is that we have to wait for more formal tests done before we can make sensible conclusions.
My 2 cents
--
Just Keep Shooting
http://www.pbase.com/radz108
My 2 cents
--
Just Keep Shooting
http://www.pbase.com/radz108
Yes, the higher, the better.
Question is if there is a performance difference in both camera's AF systems (D3 vs. D300), and if so, why, as there's more to the AF system than the bare AF sensor.
As already said somewhere in another thread I don't think it would be unreasonable if the D300's AF system would be - say - 30 percent slower than that of the D300 as the D3 costs more, much more.
Personally I think the D300's AF system has to be better than that of it's predecessor, the D200 - which from my point of view clearly is the case, as the 3500FX not only has more sensor fields, but also 15 cross-type sensors as opposed to only one in the D200, speed is only one aspect of an AF system (which can be seen from the current AF desaster of another brand's professional cam).
I just checked the AF system in my Nikon F and - ooops, no AF back in 1959, how did anyone ever take sharp photos with that?
But getting more real I took out my 1988 F-801 (N8008 for our V8 lovers), it has the - yes, I had to look it up - "Nikon Advanced AM200 AF sensor".
There's one center sensor - and that's it. But somehow it was possible to shoot sharp pictures with it.
What I want to say is, although I hope the 3500DX AF system to be as good as possible one has to keep the perspective and not only measurebate about an possible speed disadvantage compared to the D3.
Yes, of course. Thanks for listing it up!
Very well said!
ZX7R
Leading Member
The D300 replaces the D2Xs, not D200....so it should have a better AF than CAM 2000.....
http://www.pbase.com/slbravo
Richard Gregory
Forum Enthusiast
This is exactly correct.The D300 replaces the D2Xs, not D200....so it should have a better AF
than CAM 2000.....
http://www.pbase.com/slbravo
Rich
creative edge
Senior Member
Nikkor Nick
Leading Member
a lot of nonsense here.
i am going to try and make a tiny bit of a point.
something i have noticed in my past 7 years of nikon obsession.
when they made the f100 they used the same high powered motor and same af module from the f5.
that's what we d100 owners wanted when it came out. to have the same af ability as the d1.....but it didn't happen.
it was like the n80...with the same af module as the f100 but a weaker motor.
ok fine...we were happy to get a six meg dslr back then right...
well the d200 came out...kinda the same thing.but at least it had a different name from the d2 series so you kinda new to expect a weaker af motor.
d300 comes out nikon claims same professional af as the d3. multicam 3500
having a weaker motor sucks. i guess i can't be but so surprised but i am. and wish they make a distintion between this because i feel as cutomers we deserve to know.
it's a big deal. if one has a more powerful motor in it than the other. it's half the autofocus. right? even afs lenses have a difference in there af speed depending on this.
--
Nick Kessler
i am going to try and make a tiny bit of a point.
something i have noticed in my past 7 years of nikon obsession.
when they made the f100 they used the same high powered motor and same af module from the f5.
that's what we d100 owners wanted when it came out. to have the same af ability as the d1.....but it didn't happen.
it was like the n80...with the same af module as the f100 but a weaker motor.
ok fine...we were happy to get a six meg dslr back then right...
well the d200 came out...kinda the same thing.but at least it had a different name from the d2 series so you kinda new to expect a weaker af motor.
d300 comes out nikon claims same professional af as the d3. multicam 3500
having a weaker motor sucks. i guess i can't be but so surprised but i am. and wish they make a distintion between this because i feel as cutomers we deserve to know.
it's a big deal. if one has a more powerful motor in it than the other. it's half the autofocus. right? even afs lenses have a difference in there af speed depending on this.
--
Nick Kessler
dave veneri
Senior Member
Greg, its not the same AF module. one is a dx the other multicam 3500 fx. I too have been around the block for 30 years doing this and im no newbie either. 4 other people saw it too including the nikon rep who I handed the camera to. I was there for 3 hours with 9 different lenses and trust me the d300 was slower than the d3 period. It was a little faster than the d200 IMO and I do have one on order. But AGAIN it was 4 people who saw this including my wife who makes her living doing resoution work reading sat. images. She cant cook, but she can see great......
Richard Gregory
Forum Enthusiast
Can you express an opinion on the d300 AF versus the d2x?
Because, if it's NOT more/better/faster than the d2x, then it's NOT a true upgrade to the d2x. RIght?
So I'm hoping it's more/better/faster
Thanx!
Rich
Because, if it's NOT more/better/faster than the d2x, then it's NOT a true upgrade to the d2x. RIght?
So I'm hoping it's more/better/faster
Thanx!
Rich
michaeladawson
Forum Pro
I think you are incorrect about the focusing motor on the F100. The AF module was the same but the F100 received a lesser motor.
The F100 was not the equal of the F5 when it came to AF speed.
--
Mike Dawson
The F100 was not the equal of the F5 when it came to AF speed.
--
Mike Dawson
Bill Dewey
Veteran Member
Including Nikon Reps and Pros who disagree with you. The info you left in the other thread is so incorrect, per what you stated the Reps said, that it isn't even funny. If you have been around, then why did you not question the "Rep" when they gave you the information about the Sensor having anything to do with AF, when it most certainly does not?
In fact, I spoke to a Pro just today who has extensively used both D3 and D300, a Nikon Rep as well, who very plainly stated quite a different story, that the D300 is significantly faster than the D200, faster than the D2, and certainly with AF-S lenses they saw no noticeable difference to the D3.
What does all that prove? Well, that I can find just as many folks to refute your "impressions", and that is what they are, "impressions", just another data point, and most certainly not definitive.
I am certainly not casting aspersions on you, your veracity or your motives, simply pointing out that others have been reporting quite a different story. And when I couple that with the insanity it would take for Nikon to release the D300 with AF that did not at least match the current D2 series, well, just doesn't pass the "smell test".
The next few weeks will tell for sure.
Now, if you can show me some verifiably proof of the differences between the DX and FX versions of the module in the performance area, you might change my mind. Until then, your speculation and impression is no better than mine.
Bill Dewey
http://www.deweydrive.com
In fact, I spoke to a Pro just today who has extensively used both D3 and D300, a Nikon Rep as well, who very plainly stated quite a different story, that the D300 is significantly faster than the D200, faster than the D2, and certainly with AF-S lenses they saw no noticeable difference to the D3.
What does all that prove? Well, that I can find just as many folks to refute your "impressions", and that is what they are, "impressions", just another data point, and most certainly not definitive.
I am certainly not casting aspersions on you, your veracity or your motives, simply pointing out that others have been reporting quite a different story. And when I couple that with the insanity it would take for Nikon to release the D300 with AF that did not at least match the current D2 series, well, just doesn't pass the "smell test".
The next few weeks will tell for sure.
Now, if you can show me some verifiably proof of the differences between the DX and FX versions of the module in the performance area, you might change my mind. Until then, your speculation and impression is no better than mine.
--
Bill Dewey
http://www.deweydrive.com
Bill Dewey
Veteran Member
You are right about one thing, a lot of "nonsense" is correct.
1. Nikon D2 series, Multcam 2000, D200 Mutlicam 1000. Kinda the same? Where did you get this? Have you bothered to look at the specs? I will help you out. 2000 is the approximate number of CCD elements in the AF system, and guess what, the 1000 in the D200 means that the D200 AF has only about half the CCD elements to work AF. Now, both CAM2000 and CAM1000 give us 11 eleven AF sensors to work with. But, the CAM2000 has 9 of these that are cross-type, in CAM1000 only the center is cross-type. These are huge differences in AF performance. In the D3/D300 you have the same approximate number of CCD elements, 3500, the same number and types of AF-Sensors. I would postulate that the D3/D300 are FAR more "kinda the same" than the D2/D200.
2. Where have you found anything verifiable about focus motor, other than the one thread recently. And why would you call this "half the autofocus" to boot? And where did you get the idea that a focus motor has anything at all to do with AFS lens speed? The motor is in the lens on AFS lenses.
Please, don't complain about nonsense and then add more nonsense to the discussion.
Bill Dewey
http://www.deweydrive.com
1. Nikon D2 series, Multcam 2000, D200 Mutlicam 1000. Kinda the same? Where did you get this? Have you bothered to look at the specs? I will help you out. 2000 is the approximate number of CCD elements in the AF system, and guess what, the 1000 in the D200 means that the D200 AF has only about half the CCD elements to work AF. Now, both CAM2000 and CAM1000 give us 11 eleven AF sensors to work with. But, the CAM2000 has 9 of these that are cross-type, in CAM1000 only the center is cross-type. These are huge differences in AF performance. In the D3/D300 you have the same approximate number of CCD elements, 3500, the same number and types of AF-Sensors. I would postulate that the D3/D300 are FAR more "kinda the same" than the D2/D200.
2. Where have you found anything verifiable about focus motor, other than the one thread recently. And why would you call this "half the autofocus" to boot? And where did you get the idea that a focus motor has anything at all to do with AFS lens speed? The motor is in the lens on AFS lenses.
Please, don't complain about nonsense and then add more nonsense to the discussion.
--
Bill Dewey
http://www.deweydrive.com
I'm with you, Bill... just doesn't smell right and I'm not buying it. It may or may not be as fast as the D3, but I'd bet the farm that it is faster, tracks & locks more accurately than the D2X & D200; which is a common observation as well...
It's starting to get a bit like the high ISO craze... now it's the fastest AF craze! LOL
Thanks Dave! ;-)
--
http://beaulong.exposuremanager.com
ianz28
Veteran Member
I would put $100 on it that the people who stated these things were simply swayed by the "Wow, this is an amazing camera - it's so professional! (D3) and wow does it ever focus fast."
Then 30 minutes later when they got their turn with the D300 thought "Hmmm, not as professional or heavy as the D3. Thats strange for some reason it doesn't focus as fast".
Simply a change in perception based on the feel of the camera - having absolutely no relation to actual focus speed. Until someone sits down with a stopwatch and the 2 cameras with the same lenses on will we know for sure. Until that happens I will continue to call BS.
I bet this rumor is further perpetuated by the battery voltages (which are likely regulated to the focus motor. Otherwise wouldn't people try to hop up battery power to their cameras to boost focus and shutter speeds?)
--
http://www.ianz28.smugmug.com
Then 30 minutes later when they got their turn with the D300 thought "Hmmm, not as professional or heavy as the D3. Thats strange for some reason it doesn't focus as fast".
Simply a change in perception based on the feel of the camera - having absolutely no relation to actual focus speed. Until someone sits down with a stopwatch and the 2 cameras with the same lenses on will we know for sure. Until that happens I will continue to call BS.
I bet this rumor is further perpetuated by the battery voltages (which are likely regulated to the focus motor. Otherwise wouldn't people try to hop up battery power to their cameras to boost focus and shutter speeds?)
--
http://www.ianz28.smugmug.com
Auke B van der Weide
Leading Member
Does the F6 focusses faster with a batterypack?
--
AB
http://www.photo.net/photos/Auke%20Bonne%20van%20der%20Weide
--
AB
http://www.photo.net/photos/Auke%20Bonne%20van%20der%20Weide
I do not believe that there is difference with focus speed with or without the battery back. I think the capacitors will always keep the current/voltage levels at the same level in internal circuits. So extra battery would only affect to the battery life.
Greg Gebhardt
Forum Pro
It is easy to reduce the performance of the D300 below the D3.
Could be voltage regulation or software.
It is not a big deal and done all the time!
It is called marketing!
--
Greg Gebhardt in
Jacksonville, Florida
Could be voltage regulation or software.
It is not a big deal and done all the time!
It is called marketing!
--
Greg Gebhardt in
Jacksonville, Florida
Guy Swarbrick
Senior Member
..and it could account for the differences some have reported. But I think Greg's suggestion that there is little (or no) difference is probably true, at least for AF-S.
--
Guy
My 'work' photos are at http://swarbrick.com/photos
The 'fun' stuff is at http://www.flickr.com/photos/swarbrick
Equipment in profile
--
Guy
My 'work' photos are at http://swarbrick.com/photos
The 'fun' stuff is at http://www.flickr.com/photos/swarbrick
Equipment in profile
Keyboard shortcuts
- f
- Forum