First ever camera - Which DSLR?!

I'm not new to photography, but I only made the dive into digital this summer when my siblings offered to get me the digicam of my choice as a graduation present. (within reason, they knew I'd been shopping in the $500 range) I decided pretty quickly I wanted a dslr, and as a student I knew cost would be the primary concern for at least the next 5 years, probably eight. I ended up going with the Pentax K100d, which is pretty comparable to the D40. 6mp, solidly built. It has a couple huge advantages in the operating cost realm though.

First of all, Pentax, like Sony, has built image stabilization into the camera itself, so you get image stabilization without more expensive IS lenses. (the Canon and Nikon IS lenses are technically a better option, but not for those of us that are really price sensitive)

Second, unlike Canon, Nikon, and Minolta/Sony, Pentax has maintained backward compatibility with pre-digital lenses, which means you can pick up cheap used glass, even in great condition. I've got a great local camera shop, and even the best condition older k-mount lenses are selling for around $100.

So as not to sound preachy, there are reasons to not go with Pentax:

There are less lenses available out there. If you want REALLY long range, or the most extreme wide angle, you'll have better luck finding it with Nikon or Canon.

Autofocus is slower, especially compared to the XTi. (If I remember right that is)

Its harder to find fast lenses, though you can get them in the older primes. You'll definitely have trouble finding lenses under 2.

Speed and buffer space of the K100/110 are inferior to all competitors to my knowledge. This is only really significant if you want to shoot sporting events. I got slightly frustrated shooting a volleyball game the other day, but thats also because I had the wrong lens for the job. Canon's are almost invariably better for sports photography.

Thats the end of my little Pentax informational brochure, really you've got to feel the cameras. Personally, I think the low end Canon's feel like toys. Pentax, Nikon, Sony, and Olympus all do a better job on materials and construction.

P.S. If you're planning on slowly climbing up the ranks of cameras and carrying the lenses over, Pentax is actually a poor choice, because they don't make any of the high end cameras. (as in over a grand; the K10d is considerably more pro than its little brothers) But Pentax is typically the realm of amateurs and hobbiests, those that make a living taking pictures tend to migrate to the brands that offer more expansion.

--
Mark
 
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with the advice of getting a compact, all in one, digicam. Ergonomics and responsiveness are very different between a compact and a dslr. This affects how you relate to the scene you're trying to capture and the results you will achieve.

For instance in a DSLR you will be composing with a view finder. Most compacts don't have a view finder (if they have a viewfinder read the reviews of it carefully, they pretty much stink), you use the lcd on the back to compose the image. It's a completely different feel. Another example is that DSLR's have many more dedicated buttons and knobs. I prefer dedicated buttons to having to hunt through menu options and possibly miss the shot.

If funds are tight I would suggest looking at a used DSLR. If you find you don't like that particular model you can probably sell it for almost what you paid.

Good hunting and enjoy whatever you decide to buy,
 
...

Second, unlike Canon, Nikon, and Minolta/Sony, Pentax has maintained
backward compatibility with pre-digital lenses, which means you can
pick up cheap used glass, even in great condition. I've got a great
local camera shop, and even the best condition older k-mount lenses
are selling for around $100.

...
This above is incorrect.

Canon HAS maintained backward compatibility with pre-digital lenses.

Every EOS-EF lens ever made (and they've been making them for over 20 years) works with full functionality in every EOS DSLR.

There are some good deals on used lenses (including high quality Canon "L" glass) which you can use on your Digital Rebel (400D).

You might have been confused becuase Canon has recently introduced a few EF-S (S if short throw mirror). These few EF-S lenses can ONLY be used in the new crop factor cameras (20D, 30D, 40D, 350D, 400D).

Traditional EOS-EF lenses can be used in both full frame, and crop factor cameras.
 
Apologies for replying to myself.

I don't know the Nikon or Canon product lines. One very nice feature to have in a DSLR is an lcd readout on top of the camera that can tell the most vital information such as shutter speed, aperture value, and exposure compensation.

Regards,
 
...

Second, unlike Canon, Nikon, and Minolta/Sony, Pentax has maintained
backward compatibility with pre-digital lenses, which means you can
pick up cheap used glass, even in great condition. I've got a great
local camera shop, and even the best condition older k-mount lenses
are selling for around $100.

...
This above is incorrect.

Canon HAS maintained backward compatibility with pre-digital lenses.

Every EOS-EF lens ever made (and they've been making them for over 20
years) works with full functionality in every EOS DSLR.

There are some good deals on used lenses (including high quality
Canon "L" glass) which you can use on your Digital Rebel (400D).

You might have been confused becuase Canon has recently introduced a
few EF-S (S if short throw mirror). These few EF-S lenses can ONLY
be used in the new crop factor cameras (20D, 30D, 40D, 350D, 400D).

Traditional EOS-EF lenses can be used in both full frame, and crop
factor cameras.
I'm still not over the incompatibility with the old FD mount lenses. I enjoyed those lenses a lot. Perhaps that's what m88k was referring to.
 
...
I'm still not over the incompatibility with the old FD mount lenses.
I enjoyed those lenses a lot. Perhaps that's what m88k was referring
to.
Perhaps. But the FD incompatibility has nothing to do with digital. FD lenses haven't worked on any EOS camera (film or digital) for over 20 years.

Depending on your point of view, both Canon and Nikon have changed their lens mount. Both have moved from manual focus lenses with aperture rings on the lens, to a fully automatic focus system, with aperture set by the camera.

Canon was up front about it. 20 years ago Canon announced they were replacing the FD system with the EOS system. FD lenses are not supposed to work on EOS cameras.

Nikon announced they would keep their mount, and then proceeded to slowly change it over time. At first they put focusing motors into the bodies, then they put focusing motors in the lenses. They have also replaced the aperture ring with a camera controlled system.

Old Nikon lenses/cameras may physically mate with new lenses/cameras, but don't expect them to work as intended. Put a 20 year old Nikon lens on a new camera, and you may not get full functionality. Put a new lens on a 20 year old camera, and you have problems.

Put a 20 year old EOS lens on a new Canon digital camera, and you have full functionality. Put a new Canon IS lens on a 20 year old EOS camera, and you get full functionality (including the IS).
 
...
I'm still not over the incompatibility with the old FD mount lenses.
I enjoyed those lenses a lot. Perhaps that's what m88k was referring
to.
Perhaps. But the FD incompatibility has nothing to do with digital.
FD lenses haven't worked on any EOS camera (film or digital) for over
20 years.
Dang, I'm old! :)
Depending on your point of view, both Canon and Nikon have changed
their lens mount. Both have moved from manual focus lenses with
aperture rings on the lens, to a fully automatic focus system, with
aperture set by the camera.

Canon was up front about it. 20 years ago Canon announced they were
replacing the FD system with the EOS system. FD lenses are not
supposed to work on EOS cameras.

Nikon announced they would keep their mount, and then proceeded to
slowly change it over time. At first they put focusing motors into
the bodies, then they put focusing motors in the lenses. They have
also replaced the aperture ring with a camera controlled system.

Old Nikon lenses/cameras may physically mate with new lenses/cameras,
but don't expect them to work as intended. Put a 20 year old Nikon
lens on a new camera, and you may not get full functionality. Put a
new lens on a 20 year old camera, and you have problems.

Put a 20 year old EOS lens on a new Canon digital camera, and you
have full functionality. Put a new Canon IS lens on a 20 year old
EOS camera, and you get full functionality (including the IS).
You make some good points.
 
Hmm, It all depends on....

What your subject is. Your mainline fix.

So far nobody has got COLOUR (also known as COLOR!) right. Reds are usually at least 20% oversaturated and reducing the saturation in software reduces the ENTIRE red content of the scene. Except in Capture NX, which handles ALL tiffs and ALL jpegs, and so is not Nikon exclusive.

The recent available samples show that the two cameras you mention are as good as others from the same brand costing much more.

Except for one thing. Image noise. Canon is always 1-3 stops better than Nikon, and I have both .

I would NOT use a Nikon in bad light. BUT I prefer a Nikon CCD in daylight. The results are more real to me.

Now there are APS-C cameras with tilting screens. The Sony R1 and the new Lumix. Such a screen is infinitely preferably to not having one, and infinitely better than a live view option without one, because Live view for close-ups in awkward normal places- like on the ground for flowers, is USELESS if you have to lie on the ground to be able to see the back of a D300 or 40D.

The Lumix is 4:3. Do you want a more static shape, easier to compose in.
Do you want 3:2, much more dynamic for action pictures.

Do you want 16:9 as an option ? Even more dynamic a shape and made for widescreen TVs and monitors.

Do you want a better option- a full-frame 36x24mm sensor, because I am certain that come a year from now Sony and Pentax will both have one on the market at the price a D80 costs now.

Nikon are more expensive in the sense that because of the noise they demand faster lenses, though the D40x is great for low noise up to 800ISO.

You can mount excellent Fast fixed focus lenses , but the focussing and the metering do not work with older A1 and A1s lenses.

Metering works with AF-S and AF-D but the autofocus does NOT work at all.

That said manual focus with zoom lenses is often the best option, because these zooms need to be focussed at a desired distance to work well, and it is even better if the lens also has a depth of field scale where you can set the aperture you are working at against the infinity mark (as with a slide rule)

This then gives you sharp focus from infinity to the nearest point the aperture allows, or from, say 15m to as close as it allows, and so on.

On the street for example you can work much faster using this method, especially with a fast wideangle-say a 35mm f2. And when you go indoors you have got the speed.

On a D80 and D200 an AF lens also gives you auto-focus in poor light, but, theres no guarantee that your eyes, if good wont do better using manual focus. The problem is the eyesight correction and the prism or porro, or whatever.

Canon do not give you these headaches and the noise is still a lot less. They are also quieter mechanically. A 5D is a lot quieter compared to a D200, which clatters and rattles.

The quietest option for low noise and high quality is a 6MP sensor if you dont need huge elargements. The 300D Canon is a good machine. So is the D70. Both will do you 16"x20" prints at low ISO and you wont see any noise.

Next up really is only the 5D.

20D,30D and now 40D are noisy in the midtone range which matters most- see the British Journal of Photography's last two issues on the 40D which confirm this still applies with two different reviewers.

Any sharpening, especially on a 20D raw file makes the noise much worse. I know, I bought one new, and was so revolted by the noise and the fringing (also on 350D) that i took it back after three days.

I then bought a 300D. I still have it. Its lovely, but the 10D is even better!! Solid pro body, options etc. Same sensor.

If you dont want a machine gun, are creative, take your time and enjoy RAW manipulation, an R1 has noise comparable to a D200 up to 400ISO- I have both, and use the same software for both.

You can buy an R1 new for 400 pounds with a superb 24-120mm Zeiss f2.8-f4.8 lens. They are not tough machines though, and if you bash the lens or someone else does, or already has it is a nightmare.

Me, if I was starting again, I'd get a d40x. With a 3 year warranty, and pay by credit card.In 6 months time. Or An R1 the same way. That way you have got a while to check it is not damaged in transit and works properly.Just think what lens you get! Its as good as a 24-105mm Canon L! Almost no vignetting and not much distortion.

Silent too. great for candid snaps. Wont scare the insects or animals......no DSLR can do what the R1 can.

--
narayana
 
Not an easy choice. A lot depends on your trajectory through photo space. I see a lot of digicam advisors. Nothing wrong with that. Get a feel for photography. See if you're really that interested in it.

I am in the dslr camp. It's what I use and enjoy. The bodies are bigger. The biggest differences are the sensors, the responsiveness and the flexibility. The downsides are size, cost.

The bigger sensor (the digital film) means that I am always carrying around digital film that can be very sensitive to low light. This doesn't mean much to you know. But it means that later you'll be able to take candids in low light without a mood-destroying flash.

The bigger sensor, when coupled with a lens with a wide aperture gives you depth of field control. That means you can take a portrait and have the background be blurred. (conversely it means that with macro-photography it's harder to have a large depth of field). This control is vital for some, and I'm one of them.

The DSLRs are very nice for candids-I can take pictures with a moments notices (quck startup), very fast focus, and and a rapid rate.

I think you could learn a lot by getting an inexpensive dslr and a very fast (f2 or wider) fixed lens. You'd learn a lot. Don't worry about the focal lenth of 20-200. Worry about the basics-shutter speed, aperture, ISO and composition. A fast fixed lens will help you learn about Depth of Field and you can move around a bit with your legs. Then later you'll know what is important to you. I also wouldn't worry too much about image stabilization at this point. I know the Canon world and the 50 1.8 lens is cheap and you'd learn a lot. An alternative would be the 35 f2, but it's more. Anyhow, that's getting into details, and I'm sure that all the DSLR lines have a similar lens.

You said you're familar with Photoshop and that's great because that is the digital darkroom. A simple camera, photoshop, and the patience to take a lat of pictures and learn from them will get you far.

-Bruce
 
Good advice all round...

Just don't confine yourself to Nikon and Canon. Consider others like Sony, Pentax, and Olympus. All have their strengths and all produce excellent cameras. For example, Oly have what is widely regarded as the best anti-dust technology...

Bottom line is, try them all out in your hands, try the menus, take some shots. Buy the best camera for YOU, not necessarily the best known brand.

Also look at Pbase and Flickr and use the camera finder to look at what all these brands can do. You may also see slight variations and find a favourite this way.

You can't go far wrong with any of these brands, providing it feels comfortable in your hands and intuitive to use for you.

Whatever your decision, good luck and let us know how you get on...

--
Jayturniphead
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7896015@N08/
 
Pentax 10D. Loads of secondhand lenses to immediately become anti-shake in an anti-dust weather-sealed 10MP body that is all you will ever need. It takes the latest combination of 16-50mm and 50-150mm f2.8 zooms that are Pentax/Tokina designs too and won the award for this years best machine.

It does not weigh much, does not cost too much (500 pounds with a good 18-55zoom .

It also saves proprietry RAW or universal DNG RAW files and has an instant RAW button.

If only one DSLR was legally allowed to be sold in a totalitarian state this is as near to what would make us ALL happy as now exists.

Takes every Pentax fitting lens ever made too..........but all the PK ones work fine anyway.

And no, they do not sponsor me, I do not work for them, I have a single 1960s SP500 and all my DSLR gear is the other brands!!!!

Narayana
 
Pentax 10D. Loads of secondhand lenses to immediately become
anti-shake in an anti-dust weather-sealed 10MP body that is all you
will ever need. It takes the latest combination of 16-50mm and
50-150mm f2.8 zooms that are Pentax/Tokina designs too and won the
award for this years best machine.

...
Takes every Pentax fitting lens ever made too..........but all the PK
ones work fine anyway.

...
I have a bunch of old M42 screw mount Pentax lenses. Will these work on the 10D? I know I won't get autofocus, but will metering work?
 
You can't go wrong with either the Canon 400D or the Nikon D40x. My recommendation is to go with the one that feels most comfortable. That way you will take more photos, learn more features, and become more skilled.

I included my personal file for each of the cameras you are looking at. That way you will have all the documentation and customer service links in one place.

http://personafile.com/Canon-EOS-SLR-Camera-Digital-Rebel-Xti-10.1-Megapixel-18-55mm-013803066104.htm

http://personafile.com/Nikon-Digital-SLR-Camera-10.2-Megapixel-Digital-Camera-D40X-P0182080000114.htm
--
A Few Of My Favorite:
http://personafile.com/kcair/public
 
Thank you all for your help!

I've decided on Nikon, but which one I will probably only decide when I've saved enough. Untill then I will be gathering all the information I can find on the best Nikons in my price range.
 
Well, sorry about that, I thought it was more recently that Canon backward compatibility stopped. It may well have been confusion with the FD series; I came to digital from using my dad's old AE-1, as he stopped taking pictures years ago.
--
Mark
 
I have chosen Pentax. It is not as popular as Nikon or Canon. But I am very happy with my purchase. You can visit my photo blog for reference to the list of inexpensive gear that I have with Pentax over the 7 months of owning it.

My inexpensive Pentax Gear
http://techtheman.blogspot.com/2007/10/inexpensive-gear-with-pentax.html

and I put in all of my thoughts on various lens that I chose from Pentax including many old compatible lens that Pentax has made in all of their dSLR bodies to be backward compatible.

I hope to share an alternative choice for your thoughts. And you are more than welcome to visit my other photo blog that is a journal documenting my special memories using both my p&s and dSLR

http://hintheman.blogspot.com/
http://techtheman.blogspot.com/

Thanks,
Hin
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hin_man/sets/
http://hintheman.blogspot.com/
 
Of course, D3 will be ultimate winner that will be competing with digital medium format.

D300 and previous generation D200 are very powerful cameras used by many professional and advanced amateur photographers.

D80 and D70 are also used by amateur photographers and as backup bodies by many pros - creating great images with proper use.

All these cameras will produce best images if used in combination with top quality lenses, filters.

D40 is very capable camera, but designed mainly as entry DSLR (AF works with limited amount of lenses).

--
http://www.stan-pustylnik.smugmug.com
 
It offers the best for the money of any of the current DSLR's. It has in body image stabilization. Its kit lens is probably the best of all of them. I have a full Canon and Pentax system and the K100D is my most used camera.
--
Dave Lewis
 

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