How can I test e-TTL?

I intend to buy a Sunpack flash for my G2 (an AF4000 or something like that).

I’ve read in previous posts that e-TTL and zoom control might not work, but my local retailer is confident that since it works with EOS, there’s no reason it shouldn’t work with a G2.

So I agreed with him that he orders one, I go to the shop with my G2, make a test, and if it works, I take it (otherwise I pay the extra 50% to buy the Speedlite 420).

But now I wonder how I should proceed to make this test. For the zoom it seems quite obvious (I suppose there’s a display on the flash indicating the zoom position, or I can at least hear that it moves), but how can I test that the e-TTL actually works ?

Remember I’ll be in the shop, and the guy probably won’t let me go home with the flah to perform my test.
Any suggestion ?
--Jos Hardy

Jos Hardy said:

I intend to buy a Sunpack flash for my G2 (an AF4000 or something
like that).
I’ve read in previous posts that e-TTL and zoom control might
not work, but my local retailer is confident that since it works
with EOS, there’s no reason it shouldn’t work with a G2.

Click to expand...

Trust me, it won't. EOS SLRs use a system called A-TTL which is incompatible with the E-TTL all the powershots and the DSLRs use. The Canon EZ-flashes use A-TTL, as do some Sunpak and Vivitar flashes. The flash will fire, no sweat, but any automatic mode is right out of the window because the flash fires full power (or at a fraction of its full power (for instance 1/4) if the flash supports that). You have to use the (M)anual mode of your camera to get the exposure right. No problem if you have plenty of time on your hands, but very impractical in normal photography (holidays, parties etc.).

Jos Hardy said:

So I agreed with him that he orders one, I go to the shop with my
G2, make a test, and if it works, I take it (otherwise I pay the
extra 50% to buy the Speedlite 420).
But now I wonder how I should proceed to make this test. For the
zoom it seems quite obvious (I suppose there’s a display on
the flash indicating the zoom position, or I can at least hear that
it moves), but how can I test that the e-TTL actually works ?

Click to expand...

You'll know pretty soon: E-TTL fires a small pre-flash a fraction of a second before the main flash. If your flash just fires once, you DON'T HAVE an E-TTL flash, no matter what your retailer says (the pre-flash is the essence of the E-TTL system). Second: check your pics, if they are correctly exposed you have an E-TTL flash, if the pics are incorrectly exposed (most likely wildly over-exposed) it's definitely not an E-TTL flash.

One other clue: I use a 380EX every now and then, and it has a smell indicator light labeled 'E-TTL' which glows when it is attached to my G1 indicating the E-TTL protocol is in operation, I would imagine any E-TTL flash would have something like that. Also look very carefully for the term E-TTL in tha manual, if it's not there, I'd say that you don't have an E-TTL flash.

Jos Hardy said:

Remember I’ll be in the shop, and the guy probably
won’t let me go home with the flah to perform my test.
Any suggestion ?

Click to expand...

Buy the 420EX right away. As far as I know (and -- without trying to sound arrogant -- I work in a photo shop, so I should know what I'm talking about) the Canon EX-series flashes are the ONLY flashes which make full use of the E-TTL system. In other words: if you buy another brand/type and you'll have to use the manual mode, which is hardly practical.

I can only recommend that when in doubt, don;t do it and buy the EX-flash.... that is the only type that is guaranteed to work with your camera, and which will make full use of all automatic modes.

Hope this helps, and please post of mail me how it worked out,

Jeroen
the Netherlands

http://autorai2001.dhs.org
Cool pictures of sports cars, taken with a G1.

I have just visited the Sunpak site and it states that the AF4000 IS TTL.
http://www.sunpak.com/pz4.html

Jos Hardy said:

I intend to buy a Sunpack flash for my G2 (an AF4000 or something
like that).
I’ve read in previous posts that e-TTL and zoom control might
not work, but my local retailer is confident that since it works
with EOS, there’s no reason it shouldn’t work with a G2.
So I agreed with him that he orders one, I go to the shop with my
G2, make a test, and if it works, I take it (otherwise I pay the
extra 50% to buy the Speedlite 420).
But now I wonder how I should proceed to make this test. For the
zoom it seems quite obvious (I suppose there’s a display on
the flash indicating the zoom position, or I can at least hear that
it moves), but how can I test that the e-TTL actually works ?
Remember I’ll be in the shop, and the guy probably
won’t let me go home with the flah to perform my test.
Any suggestion ?

--
Jos Hardy

Click to expand...

Jeroen H said:

Trust me, it won't. EOS SLRs use a system called A-TTL which is
incompatible with the E-TTL all the powershots and the DSLRs use.

Click to expand...

Jeroen- check your facts before giving inaccurate information to people. Newer EOS film SLR bodies do use E-TTL, E-TTL is not an exlusive feature of the digital bodies. BOTH A-TTL and E-TTL flashes will fire a pre-flash. The difference is in the meter that is used by the camera to check flash exposure. A-TTL uses separate flash metering sensors. E-TTL uses the same evaluative metering sensor that the camera uses to meter ambient exposure. Again, E-TTL means that the camera uses the same meter to evaluate BOTH flash and ambient exposures. This presumable give the camera better ability to balance ambient and flash exposures.

Not only Canon's EX flashes can use E-TTL. Many other brands use E-TTL as well. I doubt that Metz professional flashes work any worse than a 550EX with, say, EOS-3 body. Therefore a purchase of a 3-d party flash is entirely justified if it supports the E-TTL format. Whether the price difference is enough to not go with the Canon's offering is another issue, but that's up to the purchaser.

As to how to test the flash- here is my guess. I think G2 does not have a separate flash metering sensor, so it cannot do A-TTL. Therefore, the only flash that will work correctly with G2 in the TTL mode is an E-TTL flash. So just take a face shot in the store and see if the exposure is acceptable. If it is, then the flash talks to the camera. Also, be careful to set the flash on TTL setting, it might have AUTO settings as well. In those settings the flash uses its own flash sensor to cut the flash off when necessary. Actually, that setting is quite effective sometimes if you set the camera in Av or M mode. Actually, M setting is pretty useful in normal photography at parties etc. Just set the camera to f5.6 and 1/60 and set the flash to AUTO and fire away. This is what most of the wedding pros do.

I highly recommnd checking the Canon Flash FAQ web page for anyone who is wants to understand how Canon flash works. Also, the good folks at rec. photo.equipment.35mm will be happy to talk about this subject at immesurable length.

Alex

AlexZN said:

Not only Canon's EX flashes can use E-TTL. Many other brands use
E-TTL as well. I doubt that Metz professional flashes work any
worse than a 550EX with, say, EOS-3 body. Therefore a purchase of a
3-d party flash is entirely justified if it supports the E-TTL
format. Whether the price difference is enough to not go with the
Canon's offering is another issue, but that's up to the purchaser.

Click to expand...

At the current time, independent flashes that support E-TTL on EOS SLRs will not work on the G1/G2. If you want E-TTL on the G1/G2 you need a Canon EX series flash. GKL

Do you know what the reason is for that? As far as I know, EOS SLRs work fine with E-TTL compatible MEtz, Sigma and other flash units. I am curious if you know how G2 is different from, say EOS-1v.

Alex

gkl said:

AlexZN said:

Not only Canon's EX flashes can use E-TTL. Many other brands use
E-TTL as well. I doubt that Metz professional flashes work any
worse than a 550EX with, say, EOS-3 body. Therefore a purchase of a
3-d party flash is entirely justified if it supports the E-TTL
format. Whether the price difference is enough to not go with the
Canon's offering is another issue, but that's up to the purchaser.

Click to expand...

At the current time, independent flashes that support E-TTL on EOS
SLRs will not work on the G1/G2. If you want E-TTL on the G1/G2 you
need a Canon EX series flash. GKL

Click to expand...

I'm not sure what the actual difference is, but I've heard that the flash implementation on the G2 does differ from that found on even the DSLRs like the D30. There were some questions a few months ago about whether or not the Sigma EF-500 Super would work properly with the G2 since it works perfectly(?) with the D30, or it at least supports E-TTL on the D30. It turns out E-TTL doesn't work with this flash when it's on the G2, so Canon has done something weird to only allow the EX Speedlights to work properly.

Michael

AlexZN said:

Do you know what the reason is for that? As far as I know, EOS SLRs
work fine with E-TTL compatible MEtz, Sigma and other flash units.
I am curious if you know how G2 is different from, say EOS-1v.

Alex

Click to expand...

Good info here

http://www.botzilla.com/photo/G1strobe.html--Doug D.'Promise a rainbow, and someone will look to the sky.'

Mickey64564 said:

AlexZN said:

Do you know what the reason is for that? As far as I know, EOS SLRs
work fine with E-TTL compatible MEtz, Sigma and other flash units.
I am curious if you know how G2 is different from, say EOS-1v.

Alex

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I asked in a post earlier this year. No takers. Whatever the "reason", it's clear that it won't hurt sales of EX flashes.

I was told by a reliable shop in January that Metz is working on a G2 module. No ETA. GKL

Jos Hardy said:

I intend to buy a Sunpack flash for my G2 (an AF4000 or something
like that).
I’ve read in previous posts that e-TTL and zoom control might
not work, but my local retailer is confident that since it works
with EOS, there’s no reason it shouldn’t work with a G2.
So I agreed with him that he orders one, I go to the shop with my
G2, make a test, and if it works, I take it (otherwise I pay the
extra 50% to buy the Speedlite 420).
But now I wonder how I should proceed to make this test. For the
zoom it seems quite obvious (I suppose there’s a display on
the flash indicating the zoom position, or I can at least hear that
it moves), but how can I test that the e-TTL actually works ?
Remember I’ll be in the shop, and the guy probably
won’t let me go home with the flah to perform my test.
Any suggestion ?

--
Jos Hardy

Click to expand...

Sunpak doesn't make any flashes that support E-TTL, so don't bother. Sigma makes a flash that supports E-TTL (EF-500 Super), but it only seems to work properly on the digital SLRs and film SLRs. For whatever reason, I had trouble getting E-TTL to work reliably with this flash and my G1. Bounced flash seems ok, direct flash is overexposed. Take the advice here and get a Canon -EX flash.

Mark

How about "they did something to stop the 3rd party units working, but this caused the focus-assist lights to also not work". Canon can afford to be arrogant to its customers, whereas the 3rd party manufacturers couldn't afford to pull such a stunt as this. I can't believe that that focus-assist light cannot be lit for any other reason.

Also, be careful about prices. I went to a shop to buy a 420EX, but asked the salesman's advice on cheaper alternatives. He suggested buying a Sunpak, but if it didn't work I could upgrade to the 420EX - very generous. "It should work with a digital" he said. However, I'd read up about it, and changed my mind at the last minute, when it came to picking the flash up. So, I bought a 420EX, relying on a price match with another shop (£179, instead of the £199 that this shop was asking). Now if I had bought the Sunpak first, then done an exchange (which was a generous offer), I doubt that they would have then price matched.

gkl said:

gkl said:

AlexZN said:

Do you know what the reason is for that? As far as I know, EOS SLRs
work fine with E-TTL compatible MEtz, Sigma and other flash units.
I am curious if you know how G2 is different from, say EOS-1v.

Alex

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I asked in a post earlier this year. No takers. Whatever the
"reason", it's clear that it won't hurt sales of EX flashes.

I was told by a reliable shop in January that Metz is working on a
G2 module. No ETA. GKL

Click to expand...

adl said:

How about "they did something to stop the 3rd party units working,
but this caused the focus-assist lights to also not work". Canon
can afford to be arrogant to its customers, whereas the 3rd party
manufacturers couldn't afford to pull such a stunt as this. I can't
believe that that focus-assist light cannot be lit for any other
reason.

Click to expand...

Looks like a simple marketing decision, protect the SLR line, and throw a wrench at the independent manufacturers. GKL