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"Rule" of 3rds

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dansari

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I think some people are taking this "rule" to an extreme. First off, it's a guideline and not a rule. Is it possible to get a good composition with the subject in the middle, and not off-centre? I would say, "yes". I took a look at some old Pentax magazines from the 70's (that I picked up from somebody who wanted to get rid of them), and there are plenty of images with the subject in the dead centre. So is that bad? Has photography changed in the past couple of decades that "better" compositions are being made? Or is it just a different style and different mindset?

Then you get some shots where there is absolutely no background (OK, maybe blue), and somebody has chosen to stick the subject on 1/3 areas.

A better guideline, I think, would be "use 3rds where it makes sense, otherwise just having the subject off-centre, to whatever degree, may be better".
--
Daniel Ansari
GMT-05:00

 
Perhaps it's more appropriate to say - do as you wish. It's your own photo, and it's how you want to frame it, and how you think it'll be most effective.

Not everything belongs in thirds, nor in the golden ratio - conventions are broken, and art is now more subjective than ever.

So who's to tell you what not to do, eh? ;)

--
Vinsant

Different Shades of a Different Colour Ellicit Different Behaviours to a Different Photographer

http://www.differentshades.org
 
My understanding is that the "rule" was invented as a teaching aid based on an analysis of the common compositional features that made some paintings more visually appealing than others. The cross-over into photography is fairly obvious.

Visual artists (including photographers) have to start somewhere, the "rules" of composition are nothing more than a sensible starting point from which to develop the skills needed to make good images.

--
John Bean [BST/GMT+1] ('British Stupid Time')

PAW 2007 Week 38:
http://waterfoot.smugmug.com/gallery/2321711/3/198908664/Large



Index page: http://waterfoot.smugmug.com
Latest walkabout (30 July 2007):
http://waterfoot.smugmug.com/gallery/3247039
 
John Bean (UK) said:
My understanding is that the "rule" was invented as a teaching aid
based on an analysis of the common compositional features that made
some paintings more visually appealing than others. The cross-over
into photography is fairly obvious.

Visual artists (including photographers) have to start somewhere, the
"rules" of composition are nothing more than a sensible starting
point from which to develop the skills needed to make good images.
Click to expand...
This is also apparent in movies and television - I can see it in virtually every scene. It's just very natural for film-makers, too.

--
Daniel Ansari
GMT-05:00

 
dansari said:
Is it possible to get a good
composition with the subject in the middle, and not off-centre? I
would say, "yes".
Click to expand...
IMO, dead centre only really works for symmetric stuff.
Feel free to prove me wrong :)
dansari said:
Then you get some shots where there is absolutely no background (OK,
maybe blue), and somebody has chosen to stick the subject on 1/3
areas.
Click to expand...
Sorry :D



Jens

--

'Well, 'Zooming with your feet' is usually a stupid thing as zoom rings are designed for hands.' (Me, 2006)
http://www.JensRoesner.de
 
JensR said:
JensR said:
Then you get some shots where there is absolutely no background (OK,
maybe blue), and somebody has chosen to stick the subject on 1/3
areas.
Click to expand...
Sorry :D
Click to expand...
That one gave me a good laugh :) (But you do have a background there. I was referring to a plain sky.)

Edit: Hey, you broke the rule! It's 1/4 of the way from the right, not 1/3 ;)
--
Daniel Ansari
GMT-05:00

 
Composition is a tool for expression, speaking out what the items or motivs in the image stand for. And which item or element has the most influence in images expression.

3rds or golden mean is a good way to create harmony like in landscapes, portraits aso. Nothing wrong with it.

Symmetrical, centralized compositions express more like high status, control, none movement, just to say some.

It makes perfecty sense to exaggerate composition by placing items in nontypical areas in images. There is no need for the composition to be "in balance" but helps if the item itself then like justifies the "unorthodox" composition.

then there is color composition, small portion of high saturated color can be placed in far corners and the image compostion can be in balance if the other colors allow it.

Direction of light, shadows, direction of movement aso. there are many things considered in composition.

It's the fun part to try this all.
 
Leone as proved otherwise, unless you think Eli Wallach face is symmetrical .
caps from movies:











--
Pedro aka Texas

And when Jesus rote to the heavens he said:
'Forgive Him men as He does not know what He as done'
 
dansari said:
Edit: Hey, you broke the rule! It's 1/4 of the way from the right,
not 1/3 ;)
Click to expand...
Your understanding of the rule is incomplete, Glasshopper ;-)

An irregular object placed inside one of the corner grid boxes is still obeying the rule of thirds. A regular object would have needed to be on the junction to produce a similar visual effect. Try it :-)

The "rule" is describing what looks best fairly well, but it's far to simple a rule to cover all cases if taken too literally.

--
John Bean [BST/GMT+1] ('British Stupid Time')

PAW 2007 Week 38:
http://waterfoot.smugmug.com/gallery/2321711/3/198908664/Large



Index page: http://waterfoot.smugmug.com
Latest walkabout (30 July 2007):
http://waterfoot.smugmug.com/gallery/3247039
 
Looking at my own images I think I may be subconsciously following a rule, though it looks more like halves than thirds. Or it could just be that I focus on one of the eyes with the center AF point so the subject always tends to be off-center.
 
I heard about this rule few years after I started taking pictures. At that time, I was already to far to 3rd rule to stick to my mind. I look forward to photograph nature while hiking and do not try to adjust the composition to satisfy 3rd rule instead I go by what appeals to me.

--
best~of~luck
Ramesh

http://www.asnowfall.com
 
many great photos are not tack sharp, and don't have the focus "spot on" either. Don't even mention film grain or color accuracy!

Think "Hollywood" baby... that's where it all went.
--
Lipo
*

 
i am i firm believer that there are NO rules for art...photography......graphic design.....etc

they don't work for ever case.....nor are they necessary.

some photos are outstanding with symmetry. some photos need that symmetry or ask for it.....some do not. psychologically speaking though, our brains tend to prefer the ROTs or for our subjects to be framed somehow.

for the most part i find photos that are framed dead-center in the image to be boring. my brain goes straight for the center and goes "huh.....that's it....there's gotta be more to this" and then find myself looking around the rest of the image to see what's going on.

before i had even gotten into photography, the rule of thirds was talked about and discussed in MANY of my university psychology text books. images that i took around this point, i never paid attention to the ROTs suggestion.....but now that i go back and recrop.....i find my images to be more interesting and pleasing.

now i find myself framing the majority of my subjects off center though because i feel like it makes my photos more interesting. if my subject is moving or looks like it should be moving i try and place them on frame so there is space in the direction of travel. i also tend to burn the edges of my images a bit to keep my eyes from hunting all over the picture or running off the photo.

--
http://www.pbase.com/chris_paltzat
 
Chris S P said:
now i find myself framing the majority of my subjects off center
though because i feel like it makes my photos more interesting. if
my subject is moving or looks like it should be moving i try and
place them on frame so there is space in the direction of travel.
Click to expand...
  1. doh# I knew something was wrong with me!

Chris S P said:
i
also tend to burn the edges of my images a bit to keep my eyes from
hunting all over the picture or running off the photo.
Click to expand...
Ah, my Sigma 18-125 can do it automagically!



;)
Jens

--

'Well, 'Zooming with your feet' is usually a stupid thing as zoom rings are designed for hands.' (Me, 2006)
http://www.JensRoesner.de
 
jackbw said:
Looking at my own images I think I may be subconsciously following a
rule, though it looks more like halves than thirds. Or it could just
be that I focus on one of the eyes with the center AF point so the
subject always tends to be off-center.
Click to expand...
During my brief experience as TV cameraman 3 decades ago, I was told to always keep the nose in the centre of the frame.

--
Mike . Sydney, Australia
http://www.pbase.com/mikeaus/galleries
http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/MikeAus/?
 
JensR said:
JensR said:
now i find myself framing the majority of my subjects off center
though because i feel like it makes my photos more interesting. if
my subject is moving or looks like it should be moving i try and
place them on frame so there is space in the direction of travel.
Click to expand...
  1. doh# I knew something was wrong with me!
Click to expand...
haha.....see this is a special case. my moving subjects don't usually have smoke pouring out the back of them.

it works for your image...i like it a lot.

and that's what i was saying earlier. there are no rules. some techniques work for one image but not for another. do what ever you want! it's your picture!!

haha. i don't know why people always get so wrapped up in rules. aren't you sick of people telling you what to do?? lol

--
http://www.pbase.com/chris_paltzat
 
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