Cheap Studio lighting? Maybe...

Yes, work lights will work, they are not the BEST "quality of
light" solution, but they will provide light and a good
photographer can utilize this light to create nice photographs.

GageFX

Actually Gage I don't think we are that far apart and are probably in quite good agreement. Here is where I am coming from: When I think back 30 or so years ago when I first started this stuff seriously, I bought cheap lights with simple aluminum reflectors. I learned a lot from these and for the price, the learning experience could not be beat. For just a few dollars one can have a multiple light setup, experiment, and learn. Then one can graduate to better and of course much more expensive equipment. I now have thousands of dollars in lighting gear and I don't think I can with a clear conscience recommend that to a beginner until they get their feet wet and decide that this is their field.--John HormWildCatNip Photography http://www.wildcatnip.homestead.com
 
What an awesome post! Thanks for the well thought-out reply.

GAD
 
Gage -

Thanks for the input. I don't have plans to be a portrait photograher, it's just not my thing. Maybe when I'm much older and grey, but not now. I just want something to learn with, take occasional family (non professional) portraits with and enjoy.

While I'm certain your right about lighting coming from a professional standpoint, if this cheaper system will meet my "needs" then I think I'll give it a try..

Regards

BKKSW
Yes, work lights will work, they are not the BEST "quality of
light" solution, but they will provide light and a good
photographer can utilize this light to create nice photographs.

GageFX
Julia - I do believe you've got some real lights!!!!
Price and packaging don't make them any more real. It's the
photographer that makes them real.



Nope, not me, one of my victims.
--
John Horm
WildCatNip Photography
http://www.wildcatnip.homestead.com
 
I'm sure the work with the PhotoFlex lights didn't hurt you as you moved to the strobes becuase they gave you the control you needed... and it's that control that you carried over to the modeling lamps and strobes.

You had already learned that lighting is not just LIGHTS. :)

I'll probably add something like the Alien Bees to my light arsenal before I'm finished; but, I'm have a wonderful time experimenting with the whole concept of "what is QUALITY light for a CCD?" right now.
Great post Tom, you said a lot of things I was thinking but didnt
have the intelligence to say.

As far as strobes, go, I learned with hot lights - halogens and
then Photoflex because I thought I had to see it. The thing was, I
never tried strobes so I just didnt understand. I would absolutely
suggest strobes to anyone who shoots portraits or and humans where
the lights will be close to the subject.

When I first tried strobes, they had a 0% learning curve. The
modeling lamp provided all the WYSIWYG that was needed. Learning
the ratios took about 3 frames, as I dont use an exposure meter -
and I dont think it's necessary.

I would suggest hot lights for product shoots - either Photoflex or
the new flourescents.

A strobe and a couple reflectors will work though.

GageFX
 
Tom -

Thank you for such an informative response. I really learned a lot! I'm not in a position to offer a reply on the same level, but I'll certainly file this information away for when I am..

Regards

BKKSW
I spent years in the field of video using quartz halogen lights and
I have the burn scars on one of my palms to prove it... literally.
I would urge anyone to be VERY careful selecting that kind of
solution no matter what the cost.

There are so many reasons for NOT looking in that direction... not
the least of which is how the CCD in your camera works. It has a
hard time seeing blue. Quarts lights put out very little blue.
So, to compensate, the blue signal must be boosted to the point of
possibly increasing noise. (Notice how everyone always talks about
blue channel noise?) Most of the 'light' from those bulbs is
radiated as heat and what visible spectrum there is falls in the
red and yellow range.

First, good LIGHTING is not all LIGHTS. It can be reflected light.
So, if you look at your lighting needs over the long haul you will
find that you can purchase a single light and a reflector like the
PhotoFlex LiteDiscs and begin to build a great lighting system over
time. There is nowhere to go with the lights you are considering.

While I believe that strobes are harder for people to learn than
continuous lights. I'd much rather see someone by a single good
strobe and a set of reflectors than to choose quarts lights not
made for photo work.

Having spent months doing research and testing lighting sources,
I've come to really appreciate the benefits of high-frequency,
full-spectrum flourescent lighting for digital photography. It
really works well. No, it isn't as cheap or simple as the solution
you are looking at; but, over the long run it provides a very nice
growth path.

There are professional lighting systems from Bowens International
that I really love. But, if they are beyond your budget, you can
find lights that will work beautifully at
http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com . Be sure to look at lights in the
6500K range with nice blue coverage.

I think the 'system' I would choose to start my lighting system
would be the new Bowens 9Lite and a 42" White or Silver LiteDisc
(or MultiDisc)... and build from there. The 9Lite includes a
softbox and is the equivalent of about 1000 watts of
incandescent/quartz lighting with a 270W power draw. And... it
produces blues to make your camera a LOT happier.

http://www.bowensinternational.com/pages/framesetcontinuous.html

Great lighting requires a LOT of control in three primary areas...
The Light Source (Quality, Intensity, placement, reflection); Light
Diffusion and Light Blocking. Of these the ONLY characteristics
that halogen lights excel in is intensity. In all other ways
their liabilities far outweigh their benefits.
Hi -

I was browsing the articles at Lonestardigital.com and came across
an article titled "Cheap Studio Lighting!" My work rarely takes
place in a studio, and when it does I usually rent a studio for the
occasion. However, especially recently, I've had the itch to set
up a home studio but balk at the high prices of "proper" studio
lighting..

If I'm going to get the best, then I'll most likely get the best
performance. However, if I'm going to try and save money and go
with one of the cheaper packages I wonder how much difference a
cheaper package will make compared to what this guy thought up?

http://www.lonestardigital.com/affordable_lighting.htm

Take a look, it's a very short article but it blew me away with the
simpleness of his idea in a continious lighting mode.. I know from
experience with these sort of lights, that if you shop around for
the good ones you can get varying intensity models, or better yet
connect them all to the same electrical source with a inexpensive
dimmer switch, or even several dimmer switches (these lights are
halogen, so you can use a dimmer with them unlike flourescent), and
all of a sudden you have 3000-5000 watt studio lighting system..

Pros - Lot's of light for cheap
  • Easy and cheap to add intensity controls
  • Portable
  • Cheap replacement bubs, or whole lights for that matter
  • Continuious lightiing
Cons - White balance set up? Possibly difficult to get right?
  • Heat, these kind of lamps throw off some heat
  • Unprofessional "look", however they can be "dressed up" if you care
  • Unknowns..
Have any of you tried this type of light, and if so what were your
results?

What do you think, will it work, work poorly, work great???

Personally I'm pretty intrigued, but would like some input before
going ahead with this.. After a few calls I found some higher
quality units with built in intensity controls, each head unit
being 500 watts at max output, and the total cost was under $180
for four tall (can be let down to waist high) double head units,
and four floor stand type 500 each single units. In my mind I
compare this to the Bee system at $493 for two strobe umbrella
reflector type lights and I can't help but feel I'd get better
results with the cheaper lighting, especially if combined with some
soft boxes..

Looking forward to any input and advice..

BKKSW
 
Thanks Chris !

I've already used this technique and enjoy it, but was looking for something more. I was particually successful with using a bare bulb reflecting into one mirror and shooting INTO another mirror for the image.. Even though I've shown this image a few times before on the forum, I'll show it here one more time since it's a good example of what you can do using your imagination.

Thanks for your input

BKKSW




Hi BKKSW,

I saw this interesting article on a UK photo site about getting
high key effect with just one light - I thought it might be of some
interest,

http://www.ephotozine.com/techniques/viewtechnique.cfm?recid=195

Cheers,

Chris.
 
Sounds like we are in complete agreement. Thanks for clarifying.

GageFX
Actually Gage I don't think we are that far apart and are probably in quite good agreement. Here is where I am coming from: When I think back 30 or so years ago when I first started this stuff seriously, I bought cheap lights with simple aluminum reflectors. I learned a lot from these and for the price, the learning experience could not be beat. For just a few dollars one can have a multiple light setup, experiment, and learn. Then one can graduate to better and of course much more expensive equipment. I now have thousands of dollars in lighting gear and I don't think I can with a clear conscience recommend that to a beginner until they get their feet wet and decide that this is their field.
--
John Horm
WildCatNip Photography
http://www.wildcatnip.homestead.com
 
I'm sure it will serve you well. Good luck. And contrary to the newbies, post some pics with the new lights.

GageFX
Thanks for the input. I don't have plans to be a portrait
photograher, it's just not my thing. Maybe when I'm much older and
grey, but not now. I just want something to learn with, take
occasional family (non professional) portraits with and enjoy.

While I'm certain your right about lighting coming from a
professional standpoint, if this cheaper system will meet my
"needs" then I think I'll give it a try..

Regards

BKKSW
Yes, work lights will work, they are not the BEST "quality of
light" solution, but they will provide light and a good
photographer can utilize this light to create nice photographs.

GageFX
Julia - I do believe you've got some real lights!!!!
Price and packaging don't make them any more real. It's the
photographer that makes them real.



Nope, not me, one of my victims.
--
John Horm
WildCatNip Photography
http://www.wildcatnip.homestead.com
 
Very interesting and I am curious to hear more as you learn more. Thanks for your insights.

GageFX
I'll probably add something like the Alien Bees to my light arsenal
before I'm finished; but, I'm have a wonderful time experimenting
with the whole concept of "what is QUALITY light for a CCD?" right
now.
 
BKKSW,

I've used regular studio hot lights, and strobes... These work lights get a bit hotter than the studio lights, but like I said, you can always turn them off...

You can always play around with the white balance until you find what works... It's not like you'll waste any film :)

-Julia
http://www.velvetangel.com/msgboard.mv
Have you experience with other
continious lighting sources? I have and they're all hot and bright
(if you keep them "turned up", but I wonder how they compare to the
worklights your using?

Any trouble with white balance?

Take care

BKKSW
 
Julia -

Thanks for the advice. And your right, I certaintly won't run out of film, but I'm afraid I'm in the market for a DVD-R/RAM drive for my computer, my hard drive(s) is full and CD-RW's are getting smaller everyday file sizes grow larger.. I'm one of these people that NEVER throw away pictures, or files :(

I think I'm going to try one of these systems, I have the room to dedicate for a studio, electrical outlets everywhere, and even the worklight models with the frosted "painters lights" are just as cheap. I'm afraid the expensive part will be the backdrops, etc..

Thanks for your help.

BKKSW
-Julia
http://www.velvetangel.com/msgboard.mv
Have you experience with other
continious lighting sources? I have and they're all hot and bright
(if you keep them "turned up", but I wonder how they compare to the
worklights your using?

Any trouble with white balance?

Take care

BKKSW
 
I've never used the frosted type lights, I'd imagine they are much more even and diffuse, but possibly not as bright too.

I'm attaching a picture that I did a long time ago. this was taken with the D600, but you can clearly see the mupltiple shadows, the yellow cast and the uneveness of the lighting. About halfway down, you can see where the lighting gets brighter in a horizontal line, that's because of the reflector in the lights.

This is an extreme example, but I found the problems serious enough to abandon those lights for the real thing as soon as I could.
Joe


Thanks, this was really constructive. After reading Gad's input do
you think the frosted lights would have worked out significantly
better?

BKKSW
Hi -

I was browsing the articles at Lonestardigital.com and came across
an article titled "Cheap Studio Lighting!" My work rarely takes
place in a studio, and when it does I usually rent a studio for the
occasion. However, especially recently, I've had the itch to set
up a home studio but balk at the high prices of "proper" studio
lighting..

If I'm going to get the best, then I'll most likely get the best
performance. However, if I'm going to try and save money and go
with one of the cheaper packages I wonder how much difference a
cheaper package will make compared to what this guy thought up?

http://www.lonestardigital.com/affordable_lighting.htm

Take a look, it's a very short article but it blew me away with the
simpleness of his idea in a continious lighting mode.. I know from
experience with these sort of lights, that if you shop around for
the good ones you can get varying intensity models, or better yet
connect them all to the same electrical source with a inexpensive
dimmer switch, or even several dimmer switches (these lights are
halogen, so you can use a dimmer with them unlike flourescent), and
all of a sudden you have 3000-5000 watt studio lighting system..

Pros - Lot's of light for cheap
  • Easy and cheap to add intensity controls
  • Portable
  • Cheap replacement bubs, or whole lights for that matter
  • Continuious lightiing
Cons - White balance set up? Possibly difficult to get right?
  • Heat, these kind of lamps throw off some heat
  • Unprofessional "look", however they can be "dressed up" if you care
  • Unknowns..
Have any of you tried this type of light, and if so what were your
results?

What do you think, will it work, work poorly, work great???

Personally I'm pretty intrigued, but would like some input before
going ahead with this.. After a few calls I found some higher
quality units with built in intensity controls, each head unit
being 500 watts at max output, and the total cost was under $180
for four tall (can be let down to waist high) double head units,
and four floor stand type 500 each single units. In my mind I
compare this to the Bee system at $493 for two strobe umbrella
reflector type lights and I can't help but feel I'd get better
results with the cheaper lighting, especially if combined with some
soft boxes..

Looking forward to any input and advice..

BKKSW
 
Joe -

Thanks for the example. I can see why you were discouraged. I couldn't live with those results so I sure hope the frosted painters lights do better. Funny thing, today I was up in my barn's hayloft poking around where there's years worth of peoples things they put up there for storage and never thought of again. All sorts of neat old farm equipment and stuff like that.

Underneath an old rug I found a metal box (rusty) and when I opened it I found two sets of photographers lights. They must be really old fashioned, because all they are is two folding metal bars with sockets and frosted looking floodlights on them. In the middle of the bulb it says "Kodak Photo lights" or something to that effect. I plugged them in and they worked, but I can't imagine how to use them. I suppose you could screw them to some walls aimed at your framing area.

I suppose I'll find some use for them, but Sunday I'm going back up there again armed with some portable flood lights in seach of someones old Hassleband or Rollie.... Ten years in the same place and I've never properly inventoried this area, but I guess I look forward to the odd surprises..

There is one very interesting piece that sort of looks like a "bell" hood of some sort with springs on the mount, almost like you could turn it upside down and hook it to a 3 point tractor hitch and then dump seed in it, from there I'm not sure...I'm going to take a picture of that beauty and see if anyone knows what it is..

Regards

BKKSW
I've never used the frosted type lights, I'd imagine they are much
more even and diffuse, but possibly not as bright too.
I'm attaching a picture that I did a long time ago. this was taken
with the D600, but you can clearly see the mupltiple shadows, the
yellow cast and the uneveness of the lighting. About halfway down,
you can see where the lighting gets brighter in a horizontal line,
that's because of the reflector in the lights.
This is an extreme example, but I found the problems serious enough
to abandon those lights for the real thing as soon as I could.
Joe

 
Their web site is terrible but you canfind these at SAMS and they kick! 19.00 each here in NJ, usese 65 watts, 500 watt output,

If your interested email me Ill shoot some pics and email them to you.


Hi -

I was browsing the articles at Lonestardigital.com and came across
an article titled "Cheap Studio Lighting!" My work rarely takes
place in a studio, and when it does I usually rent a studio for the
occasion. However, especially recently, I've had the itch to set
up a home studio but balk at the high prices of "proper" studio
lighting..

If I'm going to get the best, then I'll most likely get the best
performance. However, if I'm going to try and save money and go
with one of the cheaper packages I wonder how much difference a
cheaper package will make compared to what this guy thought up?

http://www.lonestardigital.com/affordable_lighting.htm

Take a look, it's a very short article but it blew me away with the
simpleness of his idea in a continious lighting mode.. I know from
experience with these sort of lights, that if you shop around for
the good ones you can get varying intensity models, or better yet
connect them all to the same electrical source with a inexpensive
dimmer switch, or even several dimmer switches (these lights are
halogen, so you can use a dimmer with them unlike flourescent), and
all of a sudden you have 3000-5000 watt studio lighting system..

Pros - Lot's of light for cheap
  • Easy and cheap to add intensity controls
  • Portable
  • Cheap replacement bubs, or whole lights for that matter
  • Continuious lightiing
Cons - White balance set up? Possibly difficult to get right?
  • Heat, these kind of lamps throw off some heat
  • Unprofessional "look", however they can be "dressed up" if you care
  • Unknowns..
Have any of you tried this type of light, and if so what were your
results?

What do you think, will it work, work poorly, work great???

Personally I'm pretty intrigued, but would like some input before
going ahead with this.. After a few calls I found some higher
quality units with built in intensity controls, each head unit
being 500 watts at max output, and the total cost was under $180
for four tall (can be let down to waist high) double head units,
and four floor stand type 500 each single units. In my mind I
compare this to the Bee system at $493 for two strobe umbrella
reflector type lights and I can't help but feel I'd get better
results with the cheaper lighting, especially if combined with some
soft boxes..

Looking forward to any input and advice..

BKKSW
-- http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mackey135/njdigitalservices.htm 'I have discovered digital photography' Livin life at 5 megapixels!
 
Brian -

Are these flourescent 500watt worklights? If so that certainly casts a new light on things :)...

I sure would appreciate some close up shots, especially of the bulb and reflector area..

Thanks

BKKSW
If your interested email me Ill shoot some pics and email them to you.


Hi -

I was browsing the articles at Lonestardigital.com and came across
an article titled "Cheap Studio Lighting!" My work rarely takes
place in a studio, and when it does I usually rent a studio for the
occasion. However, especially recently, I've had the itch to set
up a home studio but balk at the high prices of "proper" studio
lighting..

If I'm going to get the best, then I'll most likely get the best
performance. However, if I'm going to try and save money and go
with one of the cheaper packages I wonder how much difference a
cheaper package will make compared to what this guy thought up?

http://www.lonestardigital.com/affordable_lighting.htm

Take a look, it's a very short article but it blew me away with the
simpleness of his idea in a continious lighting mode.. I know from
experience with these sort of lights, that if you shop around for
the good ones you can get varying intensity models, or better yet
connect them all to the same electrical source with a inexpensive
dimmer switch, or even several dimmer switches (these lights are
halogen, so you can use a dimmer with them unlike flourescent), and
all of a sudden you have 3000-5000 watt studio lighting system..

Pros - Lot's of light for cheap
  • Easy and cheap to add intensity controls
  • Portable
  • Cheap replacement bubs, or whole lights for that matter
  • Continuious lightiing
Cons - White balance set up? Possibly difficult to get right?
  • Heat, these kind of lamps throw off some heat
  • Unprofessional "look", however they can be "dressed up" if you care
  • Unknowns..
Have any of you tried this type of light, and if so what were your
results?

What do you think, will it work, work poorly, work great???

Personally I'm pretty intrigued, but would like some input before
going ahead with this.. After a few calls I found some higher
quality units with built in intensity controls, each head unit
being 500 watts at max output, and the total cost was under $180
for four tall (can be let down to waist high) double head units,
and four floor stand type 500 each single units. In my mind I
compare this to the Bee system at $493 for two strobe umbrella
reflector type lights and I can't help but feel I'd get better
results with the cheaper lighting, especially if combined with some
soft boxes..

Looking forward to any input and advice..

BKKSW
--
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mackey135/njdigitalservices.htm
'I have discovered digital photography' Livin life at 5 megapixels!
 
Their web site is terrible but you canfind these at SAMS and they
kick! 19.00 each here in NJ, usese 65 watts, 500 watt output,

If your interested email me Ill shoot some pics and email them to you.

Hi Brian,

I use 2 lights with the same type of frame and reflector but mine use Halogen bulbs and are a true 500 watts per lamp. Being thin I don't mind the heat. I set my WB to 3000K as instructed by manufacturer. There are stands available which can make them more versatile. I use aluminum covered foam core 1/2 inch thick by 4 feet sq, for house siding insulation as my reflectors when needed.
Jim.--Jim
 
snip
I'm afraid the expensive part will be the backdrops, etc..
What about the possibility of getting some brilliant Art students at the local college to airbrush some Muslin or similar backgrounds? It seems students are always looking for work-study programs to add to resumes? Anybody ever tried this? With a bit of experience there might even be a buck in doing that for others looking for custom backgrounds providing one didn't overvalue one's time. Anybody ever tried this? How hard is it? There must be some people here with theatre/arts backgrounds?
 
Gerald -

This sounds like a great idea. there is a community college very close to me, as well as several local theatres which put on local plays. If I provided the materials I'm sure I could get some students to make some up. Probably by the time I subtracted the "I gotta do my own thing" backdrops I'd still end up with some usable material. I think the big risk comes with explaining why I want them, and then being "obligated" to return the favour with some sort of photographic payback..

This would be great for a learning experience, and years ago I donated time and energy to doing such things, but right now my Father who I'm caring for comes first followed by setting up my new home. I suppose once my home was set up I could afford some time on a conditional basis..Maybe even doing portraits with my "economical" lighting and backdrop set up..

Regardless it's a great idea if I'm careful not to over obligate my time.. I tend to really enjoy doing free volunteer work because you get an "artistic license" without the need to "stroke" paying critical clients..

Thanks for the thought!

BKKSW
snip
I'm afraid the expensive part will be the backdrops, etc..
What about the possibility of getting some brilliant Art students
at the local college to airbrush some Muslin or similar
backgrounds? It seems students are always looking for work-study
programs to add to resumes? Anybody ever tried this? With a bit
of experience there might even be a buck in doing that for others
looking for custom backgrounds providing one didn't overvalue one's
time. Anybody ever tried this? How hard is it? There must be
some people here with theatre/arts backgrounds?
 

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