35mm bias

Anybody knows a web site where they review medium format camera backs.

Here there seems to be a bias for the 35mm format and pointshoots.

There are some very interesting camera systems -like the new Mamiya 645 AF D--, and the new Kodak pro back plus.This very good and interesting digital cameras come and go with no revieus by DPReview.com They shoul rename it DPReviewofsmallerdigicams.com--Frank Barret

Bias for medium format camera backs?

Well yes a little when you stop and think a medium format back runs about $20,000. Yup that makes me bias just a little.

Bob Neil

frank barret said:

Anybody knows a web site where they review medium format camera backs.

Here there seems to be a bias for the 35mm format and pointshoots.

There are some very interesting camera systems -like the new Mamiya
645 AF D--, and the new Kodak pro back plus.This very good and
interesting digital cameras come and go with no revieus by
DPReview.com They shoul rename it DPReviewofsmallerdigicams.com
--
Frank Barret

Click to expand...

Frank,

Try http://www.robgalbraith.com

Not all backs are 20k there are some in the 10k range.

Mike

Thanks Mike, I guess the backs are not as popular as the newcomers in the DSLR field. I am planning to buy the S2 myself, and wait for one year to see if they make something good for studio work that I could justify.

I would like to have perspective control for studio and architectural work. This may be somehow done with 35mm bodies, so the question is....

Are bigger systems like Hasselblad an Mamiya going to be a necesity in the future. In the past we needed big format because a small negative or transparencie gave you mor resolution than a slide. So if you wanted thr pro. look --and pro respect-- you would shoot 8x10 transparencies, 4x5s or at least use 120 film.

But with sensors being so small now the big format may be irrelevan... or not.

They could make super small view cameras for the smaller than 35mm sensors or for the 35x35mm of the Kodak Pro backs. Sinar has a digital camera that uses 35mm lensses, what is the point of having a 4x5 with 35mm lenss?

Mike said:

Frank,

Try http://www.robgalbraith.com

Not all backs are 20k there are some in the 10k range.

Mike

Click to expand...

--Frank Barret

Larger digital camera backs are very popular but they are often owned by people that are only interrested in taking pictures for a living. My friends in the local association do not visit this or any web site to tell them how to do their work, they just go to the store and get advise. They often buy the system at hand because the sales people are familiar with it and because comparisons do not exist and at that level, most have very comparable statistics anyway. The larger sensors are split down the middle depending what they are being used for. Scanbacks and instant backs and some hybrids are all $10.000 and up. All come with full and integrated software and none are stand alone systems that output the files you are familliar with. Rob Galbraith is from my home town and looks at digital cameras from another perspective, the journalist. His view is much wider than that but that is his first instinct. He's technical and calls a spade a spade. http://www.robgalbraith.com/

What we really need is an independant commercial photographer that uses these backs and also has the time to use them while making money. i also need to know if the extreme shift causes problems on a certain type of CCD before increasing the mortgage on my house.
Rinus

Frank:
You might try imaginginsider:
http://www.imaginginsider.com/

Also, the Photo District News forum is a pretty good place for high-end discussions, although it is not strictly digital:
http://www.pdn-pix.com/cgi-bin/ubb/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCookie=true

I know there's a discussion going on over there now about the Kodak Proback.

Uwe Stein is also currently reviewing the Proback:
http://www.outbackphoto.com/tforum/viewtopic.php?TopicID=11

Brian

frank barret said:

Anybody knows a web site where they review medium format camera backs.

Here there seems to be a bias for the 35mm format and pointshoots.

There are some very interesting camera systems -like the new Mamiya
645 AF D--, and the new Kodak pro back plus.This very good and
interesting digital cameras come and go with no revieus by
DPReview.com They shoul rename it DPReviewofsmallerdigicams.com
--
Frank Barret

Click to expand...

--J. Brian Caldwellwww.caldwellphotographic.com

frank barret said:

... They could make super small view cameras for the smaller than 35mm
sensors or for the 35x35mm of the Kodak Pro backs. Sinar has a
digital camera that uses 35mm lensses, what is the point of having
a 4x5 with 35mm lenss?

Click to expand...

Cambo does make a scaled down view camera designed for digital backs. It's available from Calument.

Sinar has systems designed to allow full camera movements while using of Sinar and Leaf digital backs on their P2 view camera and also has a unit that will automatically tile and stich up to four full frame images while still allowing camera movements. They have a complete line of lenses optimized for use with digital backs. These lenses have shorter focal lents and higher resolution than conventional view camera lens but still have large image circles to allow for major camera movements.

The Sinar adapter for 35mm lenses allows for the use and aperture control of super wide angle lenses and zooms with the back still fitted to the P2 frame for those occasions when that is necessary or desirable.

Thanks Brian I am checking the sites, actualy there is a text that I want to CC here to see what y'all think about it...

"The following reflects my personal feeling so far and is based on our (Bettina's and mine) subjective preferences. It is by no means an objective assessment of the ProBack's qualities.

We more and more realize that we might be 35mm biased. 20 years ago we had 2 Nikon F2s and a Hasselblad. Of course the Hasselblad delivered more resolution but we always loved the result of the F2s (there was no Kodachrome for 6x6).

The same seems to happen here. The ProBack delivers resolution and also nice images. With the D1x we have to struggle with blown highlights but if everything works the results make us happy (within the resolution limits).

I think the way Photo Desk profiles the images might be the real problem for us.

We loved Kodachrome and never got friends with Ektachrome. It looks like the ProBack is Ektachrome and our D1x more like Kodachrome.

We hope to be able to profile the ProBack next week and it could change the picture. Also Kodak's top editing software "DCS Capture Studio" might solve the problem but is only available for the Mac and we are PC people

brian said:

Also, the Photo District News forum is a pretty good place for
high-end discussions, although it is not strictly digital:
http://www.pdn-pix.com/cgi-bin/ubb/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCookie=true

I know there's a discussion going on over there now about the Kodak
Proback.

Uwe Stein is also currently reviewing the Proback:
http://www.outbackphoto.com/tforum/viewtopic.php?TopicID=11

Brian

frank barret said:

Anybody knows a web site where they review medium format camera backs.

Here there seems to be a bias for the 35mm format and pointshoots.

There are some very interesting camera systems -like the new Mamiya
645 AF D--, and the new Kodak pro back plus.This very good and
interesting digital cameras come and go with no revieus by
DPReview.com They shoul rename it DPReviewofsmallerdigicams.com
--
Frank Barret

Click to expand...

--
J. Brian Caldwell
http://www.caldwellphotographic.com

Click to expand...

--Frank Barret

frank barret said:

We loved Kodachrome and never got friends with Ektachrome. It looks
like the ProBack is Ektachrome and our D1x more like Kodachrome.

We hope to be able to profile the ProBack next week and it could
change the picture. Also Kodak's top editing software "DCS Capture
Studio" might solve the problem but is only available for the Mac
and we are PC people."

Click to expand...

This I've never understood... If you have invested that much in a back, why not buy a dedicated computer for it? Why stick to a PC just because you have one... There are many photo utilities that are MAC only, I'm not aware of too many that are PC only, so why not have a dedicated computer for your photowork?

Isaac

You are correct here, how can we trust reviews from PC people... yes, I am totaly Mac bias.

Isaac Crawford said:

Isaac Crawford said:

We loved Kodachrome and never got friends with Ektachrome. It looks
like the ProBack is Ektachrome and our D1x more like Kodachrome.

We hope to be able to profile the ProBack next week and it could
change the picture. Also Kodak's top editing software "DCS Capture
Studio" might solve the problem but is only available for the Mac
and we are PC people."

Click to expand...

This I've never understood... If you have invested that much in a
back, why not buy a dedicated computer for it? Why stick to a PC
just because you have one... There are many photo utilities that
are MAC only, I'm not aware of too many that are PC only, so why
not have a dedicated computer for your photowork?

Isaac

Click to expand...

--Frank Barret

Fujii's Frontier systems are running on the VERY OLD Windows NT system. It was developed by "old school" engineers and I am sure that their databases in the workshop were also NT. The industry is simply reluctant to change like anyone else. Nobody in his right mind will change from Windows to a MAC because there is no real difference in the actual "User" world. The difference is in your head (and mine). Windows is the platform to use if that what you are used to. With all the changes going on in photography, We do not need another change. Sooner or later these archaic companies will conform and change to Windows systems when they finally figured out that the marketplace is not buying their junk anymore (not the computers but their attitudes). All we have to remember is that the proper monitor and setup is the single most important issue lacking in todays studios. From that point on a computer is just a computer.
Rinus

Rinus Borgsteede said:

Fujii's Frontier systems are running on the VERY OLD Windows NT
system. It was developed by "old school" engineers and I am sure
that their databases in the workshop were also NT. The industry is
simply reluctant to change like anyone else. Nobody in his right
mind will change from Windows to a MAC because there is no real
difference in the actual "User" world. The difference is in your
head (and mine). Windows is the platform to use if that what you
are used to. With all the changes going on in photography, We do
not need another change. Sooner or later these archaic companies
will conform and change to Windows systems when they finally
figured out that the marketplace is not buying their junk anymore
(not the computers but their attitudes). All we have to remember is
that the proper monitor and setup is the single most important
issue lacking in todays studios. From that point on a computer is
just a computer.
Rinus

Click to expand...

This is pretty much my point, who cares what it is, windows, Mac, or Linux, if you are considering a $10000 piece of equipment, it would be silly to eliminate it just because it runs on a different OS than what you are using. Computers are now part of the equipment, and if there is a camera/back tht you love, you will have to use whatever it was designed for...

Isaac

Isaaac,

this might be the solution. But there are as many good programs which a PC only:

Bibble with new versions
Qimage

My crtique is that vendors should be able to support both platforms these days. The cost of the computer is only the smaller part (2x Photoshop, ...)

Uwe

Isaac Crawford said:

Isaac Crawford said:

We loved Kodachrome and never got friends with Ektachrome. It looks
like the ProBack is Ektachrome and our D1x more like Kodachrome.

We hope to be able to profile the ProBack next week and it could
change the picture. Also Kodak's top editing software "DCS Capture
Studio" might solve the problem but is only available for the Mac
and we are PC people."

Click to expand...

This I've never understood... If you have invested that much in a
back, why not buy a dedicated computer for it? Why stick to a PC
just because you have one... There are many photo utilities that
are MAC only, I'm not aware of too many that are PC only, so why
not have a dedicated computer for your photowork?

Isaac

Click to expand...