S3/S5 video compared to Camcorder?

omni

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Search function has been down for awhile, so thought I would ask the following question.

Anyone with S3/S5 compare the video to a camcorder? How does it measure up? Trying to decide if I really need a camcorder for family vacations, trips, and events, etc.

Thanks.
 
I didn't do any real controlled comparisons, but let me just say that after having the S3 for a while, I sold my Sony DCR 105 minidv camcorder on ebay, which, when new was around$1200. I now have an S5 and it does a wonderful job to the point where any advantages in IQ of a dedicated camcorder are not worth the convenience and therefore more useful camcorder function on the S5. Also let me say that I had a Nikon S4 and S10 and never would have considered selling the camcorder with those models. The vido on the S4 and S10 was OK, but nothing close to that of the Canon S3/S5
 
I hardly bring my camcorder these days on long overseas trips and rely 100% on the movie mode of my cameras.

You see, I personally discover that I hardly ever continuously shoot at one scene for more than 5 mins, or I simply end up with a long boring home movie.

As such, I would rather bring along my digicam, avoid the hassle of bringing extra weight of equipment and shoot for a max of 5 mins at a time.

I can also edit my movies in my camera (for out of this world shots) and together with my pics, make a more enjoyable DVD home video.

640 x 480, 30 FPS is good enough for me, although I do wish the resolution is a little better. But seriously, unless you are going for a real HD resolution, the difference should not be that great.

A shot - good or bad, is better than no shot at all. Don't you think?

--
Yus.

'Photography is the Art or Process of Producing Images,
The Art of Photography is Another Story.'
 
Search function has been down for awhile, so thought I would ask the
following question.

Anyone with S3/S5 compare the video to a camcorder? How does it
measure up? Trying to decide if I really need a camcorder for family
vacations, trips, and events, etc.

Thanks.
I have the A710 and have shot a lot of video with it. I find it just as good as my Canon camcorder. I haven't used it in a long time and probably never will again. The S5 has the same video but with stereo sound, zoom while filming and in camera editing. I'll be buying the S5, primarily for the excellent video. I take short clips in Yellostone and simply don't want two cameras around my neck.
 
I am not certain about this but I believe you need to get 60fps on a digicam in order to equal the framerate of a camcorder- a 30fps video will look jerky in comparison.

cat
 
I am not certain about this but I believe you need to get 60fps on a
digicam in order to equal the framerate of a camcorder- a 30fps video
will look jerky in comparison.
A regular TV works at 30 fps, 640x480. A DVD is the same. HD gives you more resolution, and some HD standards offer a higher frame rate, but the latter is only useful for sports and the like, when you might want to slow down the action. Eyes don't work at 60 fps, they work at around 30 fps (that is to say, a frame rate of around 30 fps will be interpreted by your eyes and brain as being fluid).
--
bdery

Québec city, Canada
C A N O N S 2
C O O L P I X S Q
http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n13/bdery/
 
I am not certain about this but I believe you need to get 60fps on a
digicam in order to equal the framerate of a camcorder- a 30fps video
will look jerky in comparison.
This might be true, with fast-moving subjects. A 30fps camcorder picture with interlaced scanning (which most of them use), will not look jerky. Digital cameras use progressive scanning and with just 30fps, progressive video can look jerky with moving subjects. That's why the best progressive-scan camcorders have 60fps.

Contrary to the other replies, I find the video from the S5 and all digital cameras to be poor, compared to that from a good camcorder. Despite the use of M-JPEG for its video, which encodes each frame separately, there are motion artifacts from the S5 on fast-moving subjects. I am a serious videomaker, with pro-quality equipment, so I'm more critical about video performance than many people. But, until they introduce M-PEG4 high-definition video to such cameras, I won't find the video you get from them to have much usefulness, except for casual and personal subjects. If the S5 video pleases you, that's fine, but it can't compare favorably to what can be produced with good DV or HDV camcorders. Perhaps if they could shift the digital cameras to interlaced scanning for video, it would improve the quality.

--
Steve McDonald
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22121562@N00/
 
Contrary to the other replies, I find the video from the S5 and all
digital cameras to be poor, compared to that from a good camcorder.
Despite the use of M-JPEG for its video, which encodes each frame
separately, there are motion artifacts from the S5 on fast-moving
subjects. I am a serious videomaker, with pro-quality equipment, so
I'm more critical about video performance than many people. But,
until they introduce M-PEG4 high-definition video to such cameras, I
won't find the video you get from them to have much usefulness,
except for casual and personal subjects. If the S5 video pleases
you, that's fine, but it can't compare favorably to what can be
produced with good DV or HDV camcorders. Perhaps if they could shift
the digital cameras to interlaced scanning for video, it would
improve the quality.
As you say yourself, you are not the typical holiday videographer. I think you are comparing the Sx video quality with that of high-quality, semi-pro video gear. That's like saying the stills image quality is bad because it cannot compare with a Mark III. Most users will copare the video quality with average, family camcorders. When compared to those, the Sx stand their ground well.

On a side note, I fail to see why (as you imply) using a more heavily compressed format (MPEG4) would yield better video quality. It would yield more data per MB, correct, but compression will never IMPROVE the quality of anything.
--
bdery

Québec city, Canada
C A N O N S 2
C O O L P I X S Q
http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n13/bdery/
 
I am not certain about this but I believe you need to get 60fps on a
digicam in order to equal the framerate of a camcorder- a 30fps video
will look jerky in comparison.
This might be true, with fast-moving subjects. A 30fps camcorder
picture with interlaced scanning (which most of them use), will not
look jerky. Digital cameras use progressive scanning and with just
30fps, progressive video can look jerky with moving subjects. That's
why the best progressive-scan camcorders have 60fps.

Contrary to the other replies, I find the video from the S5 and all
digital cameras to be poor, compared to that from a good camcorder.
Despite the use of M-JPEG for its video, which encodes each frame
separately, there are motion artifacts from the S5 on fast-moving
subjects. I am a serious videomaker, with pro-quality equipment, so
I'm more critical about video performance than many people. But,
until they introduce M-PEG4 high-definition video to such cameras, I
won't find the video you get from them to have much usefulness,
except for casual and personal subjects. If the S5 video pleases
you, that's fine, but it can't compare favorably to what can be
produced with good DV or HDV camcorders. Perhaps if they could shift
the digital cameras to interlaced scanning for video, it would
improve the quality.

--
Steve McDonald
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22121562@N00/
Almost every single(> 99%) Mini DV and HDV camcorders shoot interlaced 30 FPS video. This is wonderful for displaying the video on your 480i Interlaced Standard Definition TV or your 1080i High Definition TV. However, deinterlacing the video to display it on a progressive display can in some cases remove half of the resolution if done poorly.

If you want to display the video on a computer then a digital camera’s movie mode is the best choice for the “average consumer”. Yes it is 30 FPS but that is actually all you get with almost all camcorders. You don’t start to see motion blur until you get down to about the 24-25 FPS range. Hollywood movies are shot at 24 FPS and no one seems to mind them, now do they?
 
I am primarily interested in using video for family events and so far the video from the S3 seems to do a decent job (especially with stereo sound) capturing these events. I'm sure that a dedicated camcorder would do better, I will just need to decide if it is worth it to me.

I know that a decent mini DV camcorder will deliver better video than from the S3, just not sure how much better. And I really don't think I will like the inconvenience of the tapes; I would much prefer a HDD or SD card for uploading, but then will that lead to a degradation in quality?
 
hi there, i just bought a canon S5 and gave my canon elura video camera to my 16 year old daugther...i think the s5 takes excellent video, and while it may not be "better" than a camcorder it is more than good enough for me..i found with my video camera we would take long, drawn out video that sometimes became boring, with the S5, i take lots and lots of fun mini clips with the option to go much longer...i have a 2 gig and am am getting another one soon...I love only having to pack around one camera that can do it all good enough for me...we are headed to disneyland in 2 weeks, and know i get to just take 1....have fun
sharon
 
I have been using S5 quite a lot for camcorder function in the past two months. Comparing to my Elura camcorder. It is difficult to see difference in image quality on TV between two units. However, I noticed that Elura has better focus tracking ability indoor than S5. I guess under low light condition, S5 does not response that quick comparing to traditional camcorder. In addition, I feel S5 is simply doing a sufficient job for me as I am not a high demanding person for video taping. Since both unit have similar optical zoom power, I am quite happy with S5 at this time especailly with 8 GB SD card. One worth noting that, I believe using digicam clips to burn a movie, there will be a slight noticeble delay between clips when putting them together in movie vs. the DV camcoder footage would not show any sign of delay between clips on the tape.
 
I am primarily interested in using video for family events and so far
the video from the S3 seems to do a decent job (especially with
stereo sound) capturing these events. I'm sure that a dedicated
camcorder would do better, I will just need to decide if it is worth
it to me.

I know that a decent mini DV camcorder will deliver better video than
from the S3, just not sure how much better. And I really don't think
I will like the inconvenience of the tapes; I would much prefer a HDD
or SD card for uploading, but then will that lead to a degradation in
quality?
I agree with everything you said. The convenience of having one camera that gets decent stills and videos is such an obvious advantage to most of us. I'm very surprised that more of the long zoom makers don't put more emphasis on video. I think there are many buyers that feel like we do.

If there's any loss of quality uploading from an SD card, my eyes can't see it.
 
"If there's any loss of quality uploading from an SD card, my eyes can't see it."

I was refering to the image quality of a dedicated camcorder in mini DV format compared to a MPEG-2 camcorder (which uses an SD card or HDD). I have read that the HDD camcorder image quality is not as good as that of the mini DV.

Sorry for the confusion on my part.
 
"If there's any loss of quality uploading from an SD card, my eyes
can't see it."

I was refering to the image quality of a dedicated camcorder in mini
DV format compared to a MPEG-2 camcorder (which uses an SD card or
HDD). I have read that the HDD camcorder image quality is not as
good as that of the mini DV.

Sorry for the confusion on my part.
Sampling rate on mini DV is higher than Digicam. It is true that HDD camcorder IQ is not as good as mini DV at this time including mini DVD. The quality disadvantage is not obvious on TV. I don't think you can notice that much if your expectation of footage is for family trip, vacation and like majority users. All I want to say the video clips from S5 is very good to my expectation and I am willing to leave my Elura at home. Of course Elura is more capable camcorder but S5 is good enough for my purpose. On the other hand, S5 digicam saves more time when uploading the clips to computer for making movie. DV need to run tape to get the file in your computer. It is one of the reason I am staying away miniDV. It simply consumes me a lot of time and time on PC, too. In summary, the quality of S5 video is close to miniDV and there is no noticeable defect on the video quality.
 
only disadvantages I see are the large files - but i convert them with a divx encoder later.

Also one more problem is no nightshot or those special effects ( if you like them) . As for me I dont use mine any more.
--
Regards,

Debi
 
Outdoors my S3 makes great videos and that was the deciding factor to buy it.

Indoors the videos are quite noisy: you really see the image quality getting worse. But since each frame is independent, it is possible to remove some of the noise in Photoshop.
But only a very good expensive video camera makes perfect videos indoors.
 
I just compared a raw 30 second .avi clip from my Sony VX-2000 3 CCD camcorder (MSRP $2,999) to a clip from the S5 and the difference in quality is obvious but the S5 does a very good job especially considering the size and price difference.

VX-2000 30 Seconds Raw .avi clip is 113 mb = 3.77mb/second

S5 28 Seconds Raw .avi clip is 55.7 mb = 1.99mb/second

The difference in quality after compressing the videos down to 1024 kbps WMV for the web is still noticeable but not nearly as much. (720x480 VX2000, 640x480 S5)

--
http://www.PaulsTravelPictures.com
 

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