What DSLR for Macro?

kalimistuk

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Iv had quite a few emails saying that my Macros are good but could be much better with a DSLR, but what DSLR and lens would be as good as the Panny FZ50 with the Raynox 250, and what kind of price would I be looking at.
Are they that much better for Macro.?
--
thx mark. (kalimistuk)



my pics at,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kalimistuk/
my Highspeed pics at,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kalimistuk/sets/72157594566402216/
my Macro pics at,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kalimistuk/sets/72157594487257853/
 
Mark, to be honest I think when looking at webshots it is difficult, perhaps even impossible, to see the difference between a FZ50 macro shot or a DSLR shot when both have been postprocessed with some care. To me the resolution seems just too small to show the difference.

When going to look at real big prints I have no idea, one would hope a DSLR would win with ease, but I have to see the first sample yet. And would like very much to see them alsoo, if my shots really get much better with a DSLR I will serious look for one in the coming year or so. It should at least have a nice flipping screen, liveview and serious dustprotection, otherwise I'm not interested anyway ;-)
--
Bas Dekker
My pics: http://basdekker.eu/fotografie.htm
 
Mark it's hard to beat your macros with any camera. Most people rave about the canon 100mm macro lens but that's an investment of about $1400 including the camera body. There are advantages but I am not sure if it's worth it. Go to Pbase and see what people are doing with the 100mm macro. http://www.pbase.com/cameras/canon/ef_100_28_macro

I think some of it is terrible. In your hands it will perform spectacularly but your FZ50 already does that.
 
Thanks you krakelis and doctodave for the quick replys, Iv checked some of those pics and see what you mean doc. I just thought if the panny was this good would a good DSLR like a cannon MKIII or nikon D200 with the top Macro lens and flash would be much much better.
doctordave wrote:
Go to Pbase and see what people are doing with
--
thx mark. (kalimistuk)



my pics at,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kalimistuk/
my Highspeed pics at,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kalimistuk/sets/72157594566402216/
my Macro pics at,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kalimistuk/sets/72157594487257853/
 
Iv had quite a few emails saying that my Macros are good but could be
much better with a DSLR, but what DSLR and lens would be as good as
the Panny FZ50 with the Raynox 250, and what kind of price would I
be looking at.
Are they that much better for Macro.?
Mark,

I will now expose my cynicism.

Have any of those who emailed you given you any specific examples of how your pictures would improve? Has any of them given you specific suggestions of equipment they have personal experience with? Has anyone given you a return-on-investment analysis with correlation to image quality gain for specific equipment? Did any of them offer to pay for it?

I would be surprised if you got many yeses.

My cynical view leads my to the overwhelming dSLR bias among many who know little about what makes a picture work. I am reminded of a time many years ago when I was living in Athens. An aquaintence of mine asked me to photograph the opening of a new nightclub he was building. When I quoted a price, he said "all I want is your finger to push a button, I'll buy the film for you." He had no answer when I asked who would decide where to point the camera. I did not do the job.

The pictures you have posted have been outstanding evidence of two facts:

1. Pansonic makes some outstanding cameras - cameras that function well to take pictures. Cameras that are not boxes of buttons and electronics to compensate for mediocre optics, but real cameras with some of the best optics in the world at their price.

2. Photographers who are intelligent and competent - such as you are - can deliver world class pictures of incredible beauty.

Please keep in mind, YOU took the pictures using tools you have mastered, not the other way around.
--
JimW203

They are pictures, not pixels; taking them can be fun - try it sometime.
 
... e-mails saying that my macros are good but could be MUCH better...

I agree! They could be MUCH better. All we ever get from Mark are unimaginitive, poorly composed, technically inferior images. I see "kalimistuk" and I immediately run for cover.

I am no expert, but I would be interested to know what kind of DSLR set-up will provide as much ot more magnification than the FZ's 12X with a Raxnox 250 in front of it.

--
JF

 
tha FZ series Pany's shine for macro and tabletop use and fall short in other areas compared to dslr. What you do with the pany will not be surpassed with a dslr....all different DOF issues to deal with too.

IMO
--
‹(•¿•)› Dave in NW Louisiana
http://critterscapes.com
 
Mark,

I will now expose my cynicism.

Have any of those who emailed you given you any specific examples of
how your pictures would improve? Has any of them given you specific
suggestions of equipment they have personal experience with? Has
anyone given you a return-on-investment analysis with correlation to
image quality gain for specific equipment? Did any of them offer to
pay for it?

I would be surprised if you got many yeses.
hehe, no no no, they just said you could do much better with a DLSR like a canon or nikon. but after looking at some pics now from the top gear, Im not that impressed.
The pictures you have posted have been outstanding evidence of two
facts:
1. Pansonic makes some outstanding cameras - cameras that function
well to take pictures. Cameras that are not boxes of buttons and
electronics to compensate for mediocre optics, but real cameras with
some of the best optics in the world at their price.
2. Photographers who are intelligent and competent - such as you are
  • can deliver world class pictures of incredible beauty.
Thank you so much.
Please keep in mind, YOU took the pictures using tools you have
mastered, not the other way around.
Thanks.
--
JimW203

They are pictures, not pixels; taking them can be fun - try it sometime.
--
thx mark. (kalimistuk)



my pics at,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kalimistuk/
my Highspeed pics at,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kalimistuk/sets/72157594566402216/
my Macro pics at,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kalimistuk/sets/72157594487257853/
 
Thanks Dave.
tha FZ series Pany's shine for macro and tabletop use and fall short
in other areas compared to dslr. What you do with the pany will not
be surpassed with a dslr....all different DOF issues to deal with too.

IMO
--
‹(•¿•)› Dave in NW Louisiana
http://critterscapes.com
--
thx mark. (kalimistuk)



my pics at,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kalimistuk/
my Highspeed pics at,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kalimistuk/sets/72157594566402216/
my Macro pics at,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kalimistuk/sets/72157594487257853/
 
Are they that much better for Macro.?
When I see how much the FZ + 250 struggle with the DoF, I think it would be even worse with a DSLR. Maybe you should look at a better quality lens than the 250 instead of looking for a DSLR. Of course if a lens for DSLR would equal the FZ+250, the image would probably much better since the sensor is of much higher quality on a DSLR.

--
Manu
 
I have just got a macro lens for my DSLR after using non DSLR's for close-up work for a good while. It requires a certain amount of re-learning the way that you go about macro photography. I struggled to get decent images from the DSLR combo until a couple of days ago when it clicked where I was going wrong.

A DSLR setup needs to use a small aperture because the dof is so small at normal apertures with the larger sensor. Shooting hand held as I do, this is very, very difficult with available light, so the key is to get enough light onto the subject and this is usually done with flash. So you can add the cost of a flash setup to the cost of the macro lens, though I have been using the built in flash with decent results.

I can't afford the £300 plus that is normally asked for a macro lens, so I bought a 'plastic fantastic' for £60 from ebay. You may laugh at the nickname, but the lens is a Cosina 100mm f3.5 macro lens. It is cheaply built but durable and delivers amazing results, check out the group on Flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/cosina/pool/

As to which DSLR is best, I would say that for macro there is little to choose with one exception. For hand held work, in body image stabilisation is a definite help. I use a Konica Minolta 5D, but any with this feature would be suitable, look at the Sony A100, Pentax K100D, K10D (and Samsung copy), Olympus E510.

Ultimately, I think that a DSLR can produce better macro photos, but as I said above you will have to buy equipment and a top end setup can be very expensive, re-learn some technique and practice. In terms of results for the money, the FZ50 setup that you use produces excellent images at a fraction of the cost and is probably easier to use.

If you can afford it, buy the kit and experiment as the DSLR is so versatile for things other than macro work. If it is a stretch to afford it, stick with the current setup that you get such good results with.

--
Malcy
----------------



http://www.flickr.com/photos/malcy/sets
http://picasaweb.google.com/lumachrome
 
Thanks Manu, but what better Macro lens is there than the Ray 250?
Are they that much better for Macro.?
When I see how much the FZ + 250 struggle with the DoF, I think it
would be even worse with a DSLR. Maybe you should look at a better
quality lens than the 250 instead of looking for a DSLR. Of course if
a lens for DSLR would equal the FZ+250, the image would probably much
better since the sensor is of much higher quality on a DSLR.

--
Manu
--
thx mark. (kalimistuk)



my pics at,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kalimistuk/
my Highspeed pics at,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kalimistuk/sets/72157594566402216/
my Macro pics at,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kalimistuk/sets/72157594487257853/
 
Thanks very much for this infi, Its just with a few people saying you cn get much much better resultd with the DSLR, I was just woudering how much better they would be, and at what kind of price, IV seen macro flashes for £500+ just for the flash so I know it would be a big step. but I was just woudering just how good would they be and would it be worth the effert and money.
I have just got a macro lens for my DSLR after using non DSLR's for
close-up work for a good while. It requires a certain amount of
re-learning the way that you go about macro photography. I struggled
to get decent images from the DSLR combo until a couple of days ago
when it clicked where I was going wrong.

A DSLR setup needs to use a small aperture because the dof is so
small at normal apertures with the larger sensor. Shooting hand held
as I do, this is very, very difficult with available light, so the
key is to get enough light onto the subject and this is usually done
with flash. So you can add the cost of a flash setup to the cost of
the macro lens, though I have been using the built in flash with
decent results.

I can't afford the £300 plus that is normally asked for a macro lens,
so I bought a 'plastic fantastic' for £60 from ebay. You may laugh at
the nickname, but the lens is a Cosina 100mm f3.5 macro lens. It is
cheaply built but durable and delivers amazing results, check out the
group on Flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/cosina/pool/

As to which DSLR is best, I would say that for macro there is little
to choose with one exception. For hand held work, in body image
stabilisation is a definite help. I use a Konica Minolta 5D, but any
with this feature would be suitable, look at the Sony A100, Pentax
K100D, K10D (and Samsung copy), Olympus E510.

Ultimately, I think that a DSLR can produce better macro photos, but
as I said above you will have to buy equipment and a top end setup
can be very expensive, re-learn some technique and practice. In terms
of results for the money, the FZ50 setup that you use produces
excellent images at a fraction of the cost and is probably easier to
use.

If you can afford it, buy the kit and experiment as the DSLR is so
versatile for things other than macro work. If it is a stretch to
afford it, stick with the current setup that you get such good
results with.

--
Malcy
----------------



http://www.flickr.com/photos/malcy/sets
http://picasaweb.google.com/lumachrome
--
thx mark. (kalimistuk)



my pics at,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kalimistuk/
my Highspeed pics at,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kalimistuk/sets/72157594566402216/
my Macro pics at,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kalimistuk/sets/72157594487257853/
 
I don't think that you need to go for absolute top end gear to get good results. As I said, the lens cost £60 and I'm looking for a cheap flash or may make my own ringlight from white LED's.

There is a load or rubbish spoken on both sides of the DSLR/Non DSLR divide. So much is down to the photographer's skills. It all depends how serious you are, pro macro photographers wouldn't use anything but a DSLR setup but they can afford it and need to supply images of a certain size to stock and advertising agencies that non-DSLR's just can't achieve. Many even use MF cameras and lenses for macro work, can you imagine the cost and size of that!!

--
Malcy
----------------



http://www.flickr.com/photos/malcy/sets
http://picasaweb.google.com/lumachrome
 
There are many ways to do macros with a dSLR...extension tubes, bellows, reversed lenses, dedicated macro, close up filters and probably a few more.
I am not much into macros and just use extension tubes.

What kind of magnification do you get with the Raynox? 1:1? more? less? How much, if any, cropping do you need to do for your photos?

Would a dSLR be better for you? Like most things with a dSLR, you are looking at trade-offs...cost of course, DOF advantages and disadvantages, possible need for flash or tripod.

As with about any type of photography, there is a lot of versatility to a dSLR but it can be more difficult to learn and utilize and is certainly not for everyone.

--
Stujoe - Camera User
http://www.DigitalPhotoPeople.com

.
 
Iv had quite a few emails saying that my Macros are good but could be
much better with a DSLR, but what DSLR and lens would be as good as
the Panny FZ50 with the Raynox 250, and what kind of price would I
be looking at.
In the world of SLR/DSLR macro photography, the key is in the lens rather than in the camera body. With a SLR/DSLR system, you have more options to get your job done in more approaches than a FZ50 plus Raynox 250 can provide.

With a SLR/DSLR body, one has the following macro approaches:
(1) use Raynox 250 on a SLR lens - works but not as good as a macro lenses does

(2) buy a typical zoom lens with macro - works but is a bit more expensive; however, magnification is usually around 1/3 of life size.

(3) buy a dedicated macro lens - virtually all new macro lenses are capable of 1:1 life size.

(4) reverse a normal or wide angle lens on a SLR/DSLR body - can get high magnification but tedious to operate

(5) reverse a normal or wide angle lens on a moderate telephoto SLR/DSLR lens - can get very high magnification (e.g., 8X of life size) but even more tedious to operate

(6) use a bellow and a bellow macro lens - similar to (5) but magnification can even be higher. unfortunately, focusing and nose due to slow shutter speed are major issues.

As you can see the best option is a dedicated macro lens. However, no one can tell you what the best macro lens is (for your work). Since most macro lenses are capable of 1:1, the determination factor is usually $$$ and working distance, the distance between subject and the front of the lens. These days macro lenses have focal lengths around 50-60mm, 90-100mm, 150,, and 180-200mm. A longer focal length lens has a longer working distance and slower focusing speed. Long working distance means easily for composition, lighting, etc.

DOF? People also blame SLR/DSLR for shallower DOF. However, IMO, DOF is a compositional issue. That is, one could use a good composition to reduce the impact of shallower DOF. Don't forget that SLR/DSLR macro lenses usually have f/32 as the smallest aperture whose DOF is approximately to f/8 or f/11 on a DC. The exact value varies with the focal length being used.

What if you want very deep DOF? It is nearly impossible with a DC; but, with a SLR/DSLR system you can have it to a large degree. Two approaches are possible: (1) the use of a tilt-able and swing head bellow, and the use of tilt-able and swing macro lens (e.g., Canon's 90mm macro and Nikon's PC Nikkor 80mm micro). The first option is cheaper but the long bellow extension could make focusing difficult and force one to use very slow shutter speed (noise, noise). The tilt-able and swing lenses are very expensive.

In summary, if you are good at macro (I am sure you are) a SLR/DSLR can help you do your work easier and expand the horizon.

CK
http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam

Nikon 950/990/995/2500/4500/5700, Panasonic FZ-10/FZ-30, and Canon A95 User Guides
 
with the detail and closness is a Canon MPE-65mm macro lens, then I would need a good body and a good flash, that would be arround £2000+ for the pakage, Now im thinking is it at all worth it.

Can you get ring flashes to fit the Raynox while attached to the panasonic?
--
thx mark. (kalimistuk)



my pics at,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kalimistuk/
my Highspeed pics at,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kalimistuk/sets/72157594566402216/
my Macro pics at,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kalimistuk/sets/72157594487257853/
 
The key is a good, dedicated macro lens ... what body hangs off the back of it is mostly irrelevant.

I have both the Olympus ZD 35mm f/3.5 Macro and the Pentax-A 50mm f/2.8 Macro lenses. The Pentax lens works beautifully on the K10D with and without a 2x-S teleconverter. Both lenses work beautifully on the L1 (the Pentax lens and/or teleconverter with an adapter).

Before you buy equipment, I would recommend strongly that you read John Shaw's seminal "Closeups In Nature"...

Godfrey
 

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