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Sorry that I missed your post for a few days...
Diopter said:
A wonderful, detailed, purposeful, and inspiring mock-up! Please,
compare with the misery of this:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0706/07062001fujibigjob.asp
Click to expand...
Yes! I wonder why these camera manufacturers can design and build horrible devices for tiny segments of the market, yet they continue to ignore us?
Diopter said:
Let's go to missing details:
Personally I would feel uncomfortable with permanent battery and
memory. Partially impaired articulated LCD is a big minus.
Click to expand...
I'm working on both of those. Keep checking back...

--
Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700 & Sony R1
HomePage: http://www.1derful.info
Bridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/
 
I quite like the minimalist aesthetic of the design.

I like the detachable grip and wondering if you have considered a mount that would allow the camera's body to be rotated 180 degrees to allow you to hold the camera above your head and angle the LCD down so you can view from below? It would be great for all those paparazzi over-the-fence shots.
 
aginster said:
I quite like the minimalist aesthetic of the design.

I like the detachable grip and wondering if you have considered a
mount that would allow the camera's body to be rotated 180 degrees to
allow you to hold the camera above your head and angle the LCD down
so you can view from below? It would be great for all those paparazzi
over-the-fence shots.
Click to expand...
I didn't consider that, but there is an easier way to do it...now. Several people "gigged" me for not allowing the LCD to rotate farther and also not to twist. My current design (which I'm working on) will have an LCD that tilts 270 degrees (so that it can swing up to horizontal position above the lens...like the R1). It will also twist 180 degrees so that it's visible when above the lens (270 pos), or standing up (180 pos), or the position that you want (135 degrees) so that you can see the LCD when held overhead.

But your way is interesting. If I designed it so that the handle could mount up or down, then the R-handle could be mounted up-side-down on the L-side. With two handles, you'd just flip the camera over and set the LCD screen at 45 degrees! Would be a funny looking camera... ;-)

--
Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700 & Sony R1
HomePage: http://www.1derful.info
Bridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/
 
Simon Zeev said:
but I don't think is a "Bridge camera". Is more advanced than the DSLR.
Click to expand...
I may be in the minority, but this is EXACTLY what "Bridge" cameras are heading toward. Others think "Bridge", "SLR-like", and "Prosumer" all describe the same camera...I don't.
Simon Zeev said:
I belive that EVIL is the future camera.
Click to expand...
I agree...obviously.
Simon Zeev said:
I apreciate your work!
Click to expand...
Thanks. Wait until you see Revision 2...

--
Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700 & Sony R1
HomePage: http://www.1derful.info
Bridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/
 
chuxter said:
aginster said:
I quite like the minimalist aesthetic of the design.

I like the detachable grip and wondering if you have considered a
mount that would allow the camera's body to be rotated 180 degrees to
allow you to hold the camera above your head and angle the LCD down
so you can view from below? It would be great for all those paparazzi
over-the-fence shots.
Click to expand...
I didn't consider that, but there is an easier way to do it...now.
Several people "gigged" me for not allowing the LCD to rotate farther
and also not to twist. My current design (which I'm working on) will
have an LCD that tilts 270 degrees (so that it can swing up to
horizontal position above the lens...like the R1). It will also twist
180 degrees so that it's visible when above the lens (270 pos), or
standing up (180 pos), or the position that you want (135 degrees) so
that you can see the LCD when held overhead.

But your way is interesting. If I designed it so that the handle
could mount up or down, then the R-handle could be mounted
up-side-down on the L-side. With two handles, you'd just flip the
camera over and set the LCD screen at 45 degrees! Would be a funny
looking camera... ;-)
Click to expand...
The LCD could be made to flip up and twist around, so that it could face downwards for over the head shots and if you want to protect it (and only use the EVF), it can then be folded into the camera body.

I've used my Dimage A200 that way several times, it is easier to use the EVF in darkish places because there isn't the glare coming off the lit-up LCD screen mere millimetres away from the EVF eyepiece.
 
I need physical buttons. Touchscreens are okay for fun stuff, like the iPhone, but with a specialized tool like a camera you need something tactile and precise.
 
dj_nme said:
chuxter said:
aginster said:
I quite like the minimalist aesthetic of the design.

I like the detachable grip and wondering if you have considered a
mount that would allow the camera's body to be rotated 180 degrees to
allow you to hold the camera above your head and angle the LCD down
so you can view from below? It would be great for all those paparazzi
over-the-fence shots.
Click to expand...
I didn't consider that, but there is an easier way to do it...now.
Several people "gigged" me for not allowing the LCD to rotate farther
and also not to twist. My current design (which I'm working on) will
have an LCD that tilts 270 degrees (so that it can swing up to
horizontal position above the lens...like the R1). It will also twist
180 degrees so that it's visible when above the lens (270 pos), or
standing up (180 pos), or the position that you want (135 degrees) so
that you can see the LCD when held overhead.

But your way is interesting. If I designed it so that the handle
could mount up or down, then the R-handle could be mounted
up-side-down on the L-side. With two handles, you'd just flip the
camera over and set the LCD screen at 45 degrees! Would be a funny
looking camera... ;-)
Click to expand...
The LCD could be made to flip up and twist around, so that it could
face downwards for over the head shots and if you want to protect it
(and only use the EVF), it can then be folded into the camera body.
Click to expand...
As I replied above, "Yes, I'm changing that part of the design".
dj_nme said:
I've used my Dimage A200 that way several times, it is easier to use
the EVF in darkish places because there isn't the glare coming off
the lit-up LCD screen mere millimetres away from the EVF eyepiece.
Click to expand...
Not sure about the A200, as I've never used one, but MY two cameras only power EITHER the LCD or the eVF, not both...so this is not an issue. The "4:3 Camera" will work the same way...only one will be on at a time.

--
Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700 & Sony R1
HomePage: http://www.1derful.info
Bridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/
 
chuxter said:
charli said:
was a removeable wireless LCD with remote mentioned?
Click to expand...
No, but I thunk of it. I'm considering specifying BlueTooth
connectivity between the LCD, eVF and the camera. The issue I haven't
got my mind around is how to power these when they are not connected
to the Body?

You got any suggestions? The CF illumination uses quite a bit of
power...

At the moment I'm thinking that a high-power USB 2.0 port for each
would be a good start.
Click to expand...
Note that you'd litter the camera body with USB ports. A good idea, as long as you intend to make a USB hub, but maybe not so hot one when making a camera.

Plus, it would be quite a prodigious use of camera power. I guess there'd be market for at least two such accessories -- one wired and one wireless, with the wired one connecting via USB or another proprietary interface when off camera, and via direct contact when on camera. The wireless one through bluetooth, and people would likely accept an extra power source in the LCD. How about an open BT specification so it would work with current PDAs?
chuxter said:
--
Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700 & Sony R1
HomePage: http://www.1derful.info
Bridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/
Click to expand...
 
1. Add a small infrared flash. Not for fills, but for wireless flash operation. Oly doesn't carry wireless flash capability, but it's possible that they would make one.

2. I would suggest a cheap camera body with only the lens mount, sensor, processing and card slot, in order to make it available in many different configurations (such as color, black & white, uvir, etc.).

3. Making contrast detection AF is just a matter of firmware adjustment. After all, what you need is to be able to randomly access the main sensor (possible with all current MOS designs), and read it out quickly (if you can pull 3 fps at full resolution, you can just as easily pull 30 000 fps at 30x30 resolution (which would be enough for precise AF operation). Couple it with a responsive step motor and you can simply focus, read out, refocus, read out, etc. until focus is set. As for speeding the AF up, it's just the matter of making it a hybrid system (which Minolta pioneered with their Z series), which would use active AF (low power IR laser beam for quick and dirty rangefinding) to zoom through focus, and contrast detection for fine tuning.
chuxter said:
But don't know where else to publish this link...

http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/?page_id=27

Perhaps it will entertain those who are bored with the current crop
of cameras?

--
Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700 & Sony R1
HomePage: http://www.1derful.info
Bridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/
Click to expand...
 
Isn't it interesting how one person's meat is another person's poison.

1 As I stated earlier, I don't like buttons - a touchscreen for every possible adjustment would get my loudest vote.

2 The aperture control. If this camera is going to realise in several forms ie lens mounts, Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Pentax etc so photographer's biggest assets (the glass) doesn't get made redundant (again), then I need an on body control of aperture. (I use Canon glass).

I do hope that some incredibly enlightened manufacturer sees the light soon and contracts you Charlie to go be their chief designer.
--
Ross Becker
New Zealand
 
Ross Becker said:
Isn't it interesting how one person's meat is another person's poison.
Click to expand...
Yes, that's why we have many different kinds of meat/poison. There is no way to make a camera for everybody!
Ross Becker said:
1 As I stated earlier, I don't like buttons - a touchscreen for
every possible adjustment would get my loudest vote.
2 The aperture control. If this camera is going to realise in
several forms ie lens mounts, Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Pentax etc so
photographer's biggest assets (the glass) doesn't get made redundant
(again), then I need an on body control of aperture. (I use Canon
glass).
Click to expand...
How about if we put a ring on the lens adapters to control the aperture? That way, if YOU need it for your "old" Canon glass, you got it. But others who buy lenses specifically made for this design, don't have another thingie to avoid?
Ross Becker said:
I do hope that some incredibly enlightened manufacturer sees the
light soon and contracts you Charlie to go be their chief designer.
Click to expand...
That'll be the day! I like designing, but I've done too much of it and learned too much about company politics. I'm too cynical now. In my entire career, I only met ONE marketing guy who really knew what he was doing! And he got fired...

But thanks for the vote! :-)

--
Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700 & Sony R1
HomePage: http://www.1derful.info
Bridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/
 
You put a lot of tought into this and I like the very rational and minimalist approach. I think camera makers should take note.

The last camera I owned which I though was ergonomically perfect (although a bit slow) was the Coolpix 990. Since then camera companies have retrenched into pointless retro-based mediocrity.

The only issue I have is using a 4/3 image sensor for live view. For large sensors heat build up and power consumption is a major issue.

I would rather see a slave sensor (same MP but a typical digicam size) used for focus and and metering, and the full sensor used just for exposure. Could use a small reflex mirror for the metering sensor, but would still be cheaper than a full optical mirror box.
chuxter said:
But don't know where else to publish this link...

http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/?page_id=27

Perhaps it will entertain those who are bored with the current crop
of cameras?

--
Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700 & Sony R1
HomePage: http://www.1derful.info
Bridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/
Click to expand...
--
Steve
Pixel peepers miss the big picture.
http://www.pbase.com/steve_jacob
 
*isteve said:
You put a lot of tought into this and I like the very rational and
minimalist approach. I think camera makers should take note.
Click to expand...
I hope they do.
*isteve said:
The last camera I owned which I though was ergonomically perfect
(although a bit slow) was the Coolpix 990. Since then camera
companies have retrenched into pointless retro-based mediocrity.
Click to expand...
Yep.
*isteve said:
The only issue I have is using a 4/3 image sensor for live view. For
large sensors heat build up and power consumption is a major issue.
Click to expand...
No. My R1 has a CMOS sensor that's bigger than 4/3" and seems to stay cool enough for reasonablly low noise.
*isteve said:
I would rather see a slave sensor (same MP but a typical digicam
size) used for focus and and metering, and the full sensor used just
for exposure. Could use a small reflex mirror for the metering
sensor, but would still be cheaper than a full optical mirror box.
Click to expand...
Very hard to do when the back element of the lens is 1mm from the sensor!

This may be the time to admit that I have a solution for even the small amount of heat that a big CMOS sensor produces. By making the camera THIN, the sensor can be mounted close to the back "skin" of the camera. I specified that the camera body be cast Mg. I'd thermally connect the back of the sensor to the back "skin" so that much of the heat is pumped out. In the 4:3 Camera design, the back "skin" is under the LCD...so, flip it up and the heat goes away...partly by convection, but the outside is black to radiate the IR away too. One of the problems with many cameras is that everything is enclosed in a plastic box that traps heat!

--
Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700 & Sony R1
HomePage: http://www.1derful.info
Bridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/
 
Yes it did entertain. One comment, lefties -- like yours truly -- are accustomed to a right-handed world so that IMHO should not be a factor. Although, I am very left-handed, most right-handed layouts are ok--except for tasks such as writing which require dexterity. Pushing a button or flipping a switch is doesn't require dexterity of that sort.

dan
-------------------------------------------------------------------
chuxter said:
But don't know where else to publish this link...

http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/?page_id=27

Perhaps it will entertain those who are bored with the current crop
of cameras?

--
Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700 & Sony R1
HomePage: http://www.1derful.info
Bridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/
Click to expand...
--
E550 for the backcountry; S6000 for everywhere else
 
meta41 said:
Yes it did entertain. One comment, lefties -- like yours truly --
are accustomed to a right-handed world so that IMHO should not be a
factor. Although, I am very left-handed, most right-handed layouts
are ok--except for tasks such as writing which require dexterity.
Pushing a button or flipping a switch is doesn't require dexterity of
that sort.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Dan. That makes me feel better, as I have recently decided to drop the handle option on the left. When I publish the revised design, you and others will see why.
meta41 said:
dan
-------------------------------------------------------------------
chuxter said:
But don't know where else to publish this link...

http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/?page_id=27

Perhaps it will entertain those who are bored with the current crop
of cameras?

--
Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700 & Sony R1
HomePage: http://www.1derful.info
Bridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/
Click to expand...
--
E550 for the backcountry; S6000 for everywhere else
Click to expand...
--
Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700 & Sony R1
HomePage: http://www.1derful.info
Bridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/
 
...Charlie, this is amazing. I thought at first that you had done the "photos" in CAD, but then it appears you have built hardware mockups - keep developing this idea, I think it has a lot of promise. I'm going to have to read this through a few times and digest it before I can contribute anything of value, but offhand I really like what I see here!

The only other comment I have at this point is regarding the flash - I never like shoe-mounted flash (I usually put mine on a bracket), in large part for the balance issue which Mr Paar mentioned in your blog, but also I'm thinking that, given your creativity here, you can come up with something much more elegant than the camera shoe mount!

I'll be watching and thinking on this some more.

--
-Dennis W.
Austin, Texas

 
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