I've used Nikon for years but my f100 went back for a lensmount problem that was affecting the autofocus and my d200 went back twice for auto-focus calibration issues and a hot shoe that wouldn't hold my SB800 firmly. Nikon fixed both cameras but I would have been a much happier camper if the cameras had worked out of the box.
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Nikon Quality
- Thread starter AAK
- Start date
twmangrove
Forum Enthusiast
Perhaps another Ralph Nader (sans political aspirations) has to arise to tackle the world of electronics.
The 18-200mm may be considered a consumer lens, but the majority of people in the world do not have $900(Cdn) to pay for a lens. And while this may be considered a good price point for this little optic miracle (I've used one - despite it's flaws such as lens creep, it's quite fantastic), it's truly sick to consider anything at this price "disposable". But that seems to be the way things are with so much of the electronics made today. A great case was the iPod, which for a while Apple refused to replace the battery on out of warranty. Their customer service has been recorded, on the record, recommending the owner of an out of warranty iPod with a dead battery to buy a new one.
With my old D70, when the shutter failed I chatted with Nikon Canada service who explained that this is a consumer camera and If I wanted greater reliability I should invest in a D2 series. I couldn't afford a D2 series camera at the time, or so I thought (I should have looked for a used D1H). But the D70 cost at least twice as much as my F80 which after much use still worked just fine.
I suppose there's a reason why Nikon Canada, within the last couple of years, has bumped its warranty on lenses to 5 years. Extended producer responsibility is definitely a positive step in assuring consumers that their $200 to $1,000 non-professional lens has some life to it.
The 18-200mm may be considered a consumer lens, but the majority of people in the world do not have $900(Cdn) to pay for a lens. And while this may be considered a good price point for this little optic miracle (I've used one - despite it's flaws such as lens creep, it's quite fantastic), it's truly sick to consider anything at this price "disposable". But that seems to be the way things are with so much of the electronics made today. A great case was the iPod, which for a while Apple refused to replace the battery on out of warranty. Their customer service has been recorded, on the record, recommending the owner of an out of warranty iPod with a dead battery to buy a new one.
With my old D70, when the shutter failed I chatted with Nikon Canada service who explained that this is a consumer camera and If I wanted greater reliability I should invest in a D2 series. I couldn't afford a D2 series camera at the time, or so I thought (I should have looked for a used D1H). But the D70 cost at least twice as much as my F80 which after much use still worked just fine.
I suppose there's a reason why Nikon Canada, within the last couple of years, has bumped its warranty on lenses to 5 years. Extended producer responsibility is definitely a positive step in assuring consumers that their $200 to $1,000 non-professional lens has some life to it.
Interesting, especially as it has the "gold ring" which is rumoured to indicate "pro". Also, the old AF-D type 80-200mm f/2.8 isn't on that list either (despite being a "pro" lens at one time) ...
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Mr Fartleberry
Leading Member
Getting off topic but I believe the gold ring signified ED glass elements - a carry over from the seventies. Again Nikon fails to distinguish lenses as pro such as Canon does with the "L" series. Heap scorn upon me if I'm wrong about the gold ring.
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AAK
Forum Pro
My experience is similar.
To me, the D200 is an "almost-great" camera.
Design: 100%
Execution: 50% at best.
My first D200 had long-banding, and nothing ever set it right.
I always seem to be waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Three other issues seem to constitute an epidemic on the D200:
a) The false empty-battery problem (DBS)
b) The "didn't write the images to the card" issue (I had that two weeks ago. Turned the camera on-and-off and it started writing again)
c) Spurious flashes (your problem)
These all seem to be widespread according to this forum.
And, as far as I know, none have been addressed system-wide by Nikon to date.
--
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AAK
Forum Pro
Hi, Walter
I know exactly what you mean. And it's ironic, isn't it, that in today's world, the people with the lowest quality make the most money.
I always thought Microsoft was the best example of that new "Peter Principal"
--
=~ AAK - http://www.aakatz.com
=~ Author of The White Paper
=~ http://www.aakatz.com/whitepaper
I know exactly what you mean. And it's ironic, isn't it, that in today's world, the people with the lowest quality make the most money.
I always thought Microsoft was the best example of that new "Peter Principal"
--
=~ AAK - http://www.aakatz.com
=~ Author of The White Paper
=~ http://www.aakatz.com/whitepaper
AAK
Forum Pro
Thank you, I'm up for that!
It is a testament to Nikon that, until digital, I've never had to send a single camera in for repair. And one is a pre WWII Leica I inherited from my father. I must admit that I did send that in for a full-blown cleaning before passing it on, in turn, to my nephew.
--
=~ AAK - http://www.aakatz.com
=~ Author of The White Paper
=~ http://www.aakatz.com/whitepaper
Mike Walters
Senior Member
AAK, you no doubt have had some bad luck with your gear, but I also think that we percieve more problems because a) generally people will moan when something breaks but wont say anything when it works well (understandably) and b) the internet and forums like this give us access to many more people, so we hear all those gripes and groans.
I got my D200 when it first came out and had the short banding, but that got fixed. It has since performed flawlessly despite being taken to the Amazon rainforest, lots of humidity and rain, getting swamped by a wave in a small boat, and I just got back from Borneo, again, high temperatures, humidity, mud and rain. You do what you can to protect it but if you want to take photos you cant stop it getting wet. I also dropped it onto concrete with a 17-55 mounted and it suffered a scratch (I stupidly thought I had the strap around my neck and let go of the camera....DUH!!!!)
So all in all my expereice would be one of excellent quality and I am sure the same can be said for thousands of other users.
That said, obviously there are those that get problems, and for them it is not acceptable.
Regards
Mike
I got my D200 when it first came out and had the short banding, but that got fixed. It has since performed flawlessly despite being taken to the Amazon rainforest, lots of humidity and rain, getting swamped by a wave in a small boat, and I just got back from Borneo, again, high temperatures, humidity, mud and rain. You do what you can to protect it but if you want to take photos you cant stop it getting wet. I also dropped it onto concrete with a 17-55 mounted and it suffered a scratch (I stupidly thought I had the strap around my neck and let go of the camera....DUH!!!!)
So all in all my expereice would be one of excellent quality and I am sure the same can be said for thousands of other users.
That said, obviously there are those that get problems, and for them it is not acceptable.
Regards
Mike
OldMaster
Senior Member
Ok, I can understand your reaction. I think you have just been outrageously unlucky. I am pro, not press but wedding and other social styles. I have two Fuji S3's...not the most robust build I know, but I have had no problems with either..or the 20F2.8, 35F2, 50/F1.4, 60F2.8, 17-55F2.8 Nikkors, Tokina 28/80F2.8, 12/24F4, 80/200F2.8.
However one views the cameras today, and the D200's are considered to be well built, compared to mechanical cameras they are much more complex designs combining electronics and mechanics. We all want auto functions, auto focus, etc, etc and within a budget we can afford as well as leading edge digital technology, chips and sensors.
Like any instrument, even the best need to be looked after. Gone are the days I believe you could have three Nikon F2's slung around your neck with brass barrelled manual focus lenses all clanking around together.
I think, to be honest, one needs to be almost obsessive/compulsive about caring for our kit these days, but it does bring rewards in terms of results that probably exceed those we were able to get from film versions in the past.
I guess, if one wanted the "best of both worlds" in terms of build and longevity there is nothing that can compare to the manual focus metal bodied lenses still produced by Leica/Zeiss/Cosina...and perhaps a Leica M8 body??
Please don't think I am inferring that you may be "rough" with your kit and you have obviously been exceedingly unlucky, but digital bodies and auto focus zooms with copious amounts of plastic really do not take the hammering metal mechanical cameras and lenses used to, although I do see threads from pros who have shot tens of thousands of frames with their D2x's, presumably on Nikon optics?
Without being too cliched, there is a parallel to our motor cars these days. Computer and electronic controlled everything..and they go and go and go until something goes wrong and the vehicle has to be returned for analysis...which is why I keep my Series 111 Land Rover, cos I can usually fix her on the side of the road!!
However one views the cameras today, and the D200's are considered to be well built, compared to mechanical cameras they are much more complex designs combining electronics and mechanics. We all want auto functions, auto focus, etc, etc and within a budget we can afford as well as leading edge digital technology, chips and sensors.
Like any instrument, even the best need to be looked after. Gone are the days I believe you could have three Nikon F2's slung around your neck with brass barrelled manual focus lenses all clanking around together.
I think, to be honest, one needs to be almost obsessive/compulsive about caring for our kit these days, but it does bring rewards in terms of results that probably exceed those we were able to get from film versions in the past.
I guess, if one wanted the "best of both worlds" in terms of build and longevity there is nothing that can compare to the manual focus metal bodied lenses still produced by Leica/Zeiss/Cosina...and perhaps a Leica M8 body??
Please don't think I am inferring that you may be "rough" with your kit and you have obviously been exceedingly unlucky, but digital bodies and auto focus zooms with copious amounts of plastic really do not take the hammering metal mechanical cameras and lenses used to, although I do see threads from pros who have shot tens of thousands of frames with their D2x's, presumably on Nikon optics?
Without being too cliched, there is a parallel to our motor cars these days. Computer and electronic controlled everything..and they go and go and go until something goes wrong and the vehicle has to be returned for analysis...which is why I keep my Series 111 Land Rover, cos I can usually fix her on the side of the road!!
... were two lenses that were built to last - unlike their newer cousins, the construction of these two was awesome. I'm currently selling one of each model, and they are still in very nice shape, allthough I've used them a lot.
You just don't get that kind of build quality any more.
Regards
Alex
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You just don't get that kind of build quality any more.
Regards
Alex
--
carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero
=> Closeup/Macro Galleries:
http://www.pbase.com/magma_photography/root
Steve Davey
Leading Member
Bad luck, really do sympathise with you. Had repair issues myself but I do FLOG my gear. Part of the problem is the ease with which digital can be blown to 100% and checked for edge sharpness. Have had mounts on lenses and cameras rebuilt a number of times due to this. Sure the film cameras/lenses were just as ganked but I never got to inspect them quite so close.
Also believe that you are not a troll, but mate, what about backup gear. You say how can you shoot crowds with a 70mm lens. Is that all you had on you apart from the 18-200? If this is such an important job you should have had more than one wide lens on you. I am a travel photographer and carry as much gear as I can get on a plane. I have had stuff go down on me on the road (only equipment unfortunately) but have been able to keep shooting. I carry a range of telephotos, mid range and wides for this very reason. Often a lens won't get out of the camera bag on a two week trip - that just means I haven't had equipment issues.
From what I know the 18-200 is a semi-pro lens in terms of build quality. The lesson, if you can draw one from this, is that you should never trust one piece of kit entirely. Anything can go wrong, and if you have no back up you are screwed. Hell - even look at the space shuttle! Everything will let you down at some point, unforunately you compounded that breakdown by not having an adequate back up. That is often what sets the pros apart!
Good luck,
Steve
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Also believe that you are not a troll, but mate, what about backup gear. You say how can you shoot crowds with a 70mm lens. Is that all you had on you apart from the 18-200? If this is such an important job you should have had more than one wide lens on you. I am a travel photographer and carry as much gear as I can get on a plane. I have had stuff go down on me on the road (only equipment unfortunately) but have been able to keep shooting. I carry a range of telephotos, mid range and wides for this very reason. Often a lens won't get out of the camera bag on a two week trip - that just means I haven't had equipment issues.
From what I know the 18-200 is a semi-pro lens in terms of build quality. The lesson, if you can draw one from this, is that you should never trust one piece of kit entirely. Anything can go wrong, and if you have no back up you are screwed. Hell - even look at the space shuttle! Everything will let you down at some point, unforunately you compounded that breakdown by not having an adequate back up. That is often what sets the pros apart!
Good luck,
Steve
--
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I have a D100. Frans Lanting used that camera for his Life Through Time project. Does that make me a professional photographer? So, the other way round, does having a 18-200 VR make somebody "unpro"?
It's about the results, not the tools.
BG
6 Stringer
Well-known member
geomcs
Well-known member
AAK is a pro in my book. The images he gets from "non-pro" cameras such as consumer-level Sonys are unbelievable. Also, the help he has given over in the Sony forum and with his whitepaper has enlightened and inspired thousands of beginning photographers which makes him more of a "pro" than most that post here.
--
Mike
http://www.flickr.com/photos/geomcs/
'the only thing constant is change'
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'the only thing constant is change'
Jan Madsen
Senior Member
It is now 28-300mm f3.5-5.6, 10.7x zoom with image stabilisation and L build. 35-350 was the old one. That lens (or these lenses) is build for abuse (within reason).
--In general, I agree with your above statement, but Canon used to make
a 10x pro zoom, the 35-350mm f/3.5-5.6L USM which I believe, is
considered a "pro" lens by the L-designation. OK, it's 10x and not
11x but who's keeping track
- Jan
AAK
Forum Pro
I don't agree at all.
One thing I've learned over a long career is that whatever tool fits the task is the best tool for the task.
I bought he 18-200 as a personal walk-around lens. However, I found that it was an amazing tool for outdoor (not low-light) entertainment events, where I find myself needing to shoot close-ups and wide-angle from moment-to-moment without changing lenses or bodies. Whatever adjustments I've made for a shot (I shoot manual) generally apply to both ranges, so the lens gives me instantaneous access to wide and tele as needed.
The quality is, at least, good enough for me and my clients' purposes (which is usually promotional). In many cases, I've found the quality excellent as long as I've got enough light and I'm not looking for edge-to-edge sharpness. The VR is excellent - so good that I rarely use tripod for entertainment events any longer.
In my book, and for my needs, that makes it an excellent lens.
Do I expect it to be as good as my Pro glass? No. Do I expect it to last as long as my Pro glass? No.
On the other hand, I would expect that anything I buy for close to $1000, no matter what snob-appeal it has (or doesn't) will give me good service for a reasonable amount of time.
That's not asking too much. And there's no contradiction.
--
=~ AAK - http://www.aakatz.com
=~ Author of The White Paper
=~ http://www.aakatz.com/whitepaper
AAK
Forum Pro
No, I didn't have another -Nikon- wide lens. In fact, I had been shopping better-quality Nikon wide-zooms over the last few weeks, but hadn't made a purchase yet. I used a different brand camera to complete the shoot.
I can't handle the kind of equipment you carry. My case (a Kata, BTW), is already over 45 pounds. I just turned 60 and I just can't carry three heavy lenses and bodies around my neck or over my shoulder any more. When I have one of my assistants with me, I carr y more. Unfortunately, this shoot was on a Sunday and neither was available, so I carried what I could.
And I did end up getting the shots.
--
=~ AAK - http://www.aakatz.com
=~ Author of The White Paper
=~ http://www.aakatz.com/whitepaper
thepaladin
Forum Enthusiast
my 24 85mm used to do that to me (all those k-lunk noises) but it had never failed me. my D200 also had a whole bunch of problems. still gotta agree that you have horrible luck
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AAK
Forum Pro
Thanks for the suggestion, it's a great idea.
=~ AAK - http://www.aakatz.com
=~ Author of The White Paper
=~ http://www.aakatz.com/whitepaper
--
=~ AAK - http://www.aakatz.com
=~ Author of The White Paper
=~ http://www.aakatz.com/whitepaper
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