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need help deciding on D-SLR body (kinda long)

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Carl_B

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I have a lot of experience with film SLRs - F3HP (serious photos) and N50 (my version of a point and shoot) and have accumulated over the years a collection of Nikon lenses (although mostly non-AF AI). I've been using a Canon Powershot S-70 pocket digital and finally ready to pull the trigger on a D-SLR. With my collection of F mount lenses, speedlight, and confidence in Nikon products in general I'm pretty set on it being another Nikon.

I thought I'd start with a body only and reuse the lenses I'm already familiar with. Then save for an 18-200 VR and maybe an 85mm 1.4 (indoor sports and portraits).

The shots I want to improve the most are my daughters gymnastics competitions and my waterskiing pics. Each represent their own challenges. For indoor sports I can blow away the Canon's pics using my F3 w/fast lens and film. I don't mind focusing manually but I've been told that a D-SLR will not have nearly as bright a viewfinder as the F3HP so manual focus of low light action may not be as easy as I think.

For the outdoor waterskiiing the challenge is boat movement where I think a VR lens may help. The other challenge will be handing someone my prized D-SLR to hold and keep dry:(

I've had a D200 recommended and thought the decision would be an easy one but I've spent the last few days reading these forums and somehow managed to become less and less convinced of a perfect fit.

I think my desire for a fast and affordable indoor sports lens rules out D40/D40x if I want to maintain AF. I'm not sure I really need 10mp but I do tend to take more pic than I need and crop later so I assume it rarely hurts to have too many pixels.

I have a drawer full of CF memory and readers for it; I also like the huge sizes they come it. Makes me lean towards a D200 but hardly justification on its own.

I'm hoping that someone here knowlegable in the various Nikon D-SLRs will be able to simplify my selection or offer a little guidance/advice. I was initially on the fence between a D80 and D200 but now find myself now considering old stock D50/D70 and even reconsidering D40/D40x since most of my existing lenses are non-AF anyway.

Any help greatly appreciated!
-Carl
 
Carl_B said:
I have a lot of experience with film SLRs - F3HP (serious photos) and
N50 (my version of a point and shoot) and have accumulated over the
years a collection of Nikon lenses (although mostly non-AF AI).
I've been using a Canon Powershot S-70 pocket digital and finally
ready to pull the trigger on a D-SLR. With my collection of F mount
lenses, speedlight, and confidence in Nikon products in general I'm
pretty set on it being another Nikon.

I thought I'd start with a body only and reuse the lenses I'm already
familiar with. Then save for an 18-200 VR and maybe an 85mm 1.4
(indoor sports and portraits).

The shots I want to improve the most are my daughters gymnastics
competitions and my waterskiing pics. Each represent their own
challenges. For indoor sports I can blow away the Canon's pics using
my F3 w/fast lens and film. I don't mind focusing manually but I've
been told that a D-SLR will not have nearly as bright a viewfinder as
the F3HP so manual focus of low light action may not be as easy as I
think.

For the outdoor waterskiiing the challenge is boat movement where I
think a VR lens may help. The other challenge will be handing
someone my prized D-SLR to hold and keep dry:(

I've had a D200 recommended and thought the decision would be an easy
one but I've spent the last few days reading these forums and somehow
managed to become less and less convinced of a perfect fit.

I think my desire for a fast and affordable indoor sports lens rules
out D40/D40x if I want to maintain AF. I'm not sure I really need
10mp but I do tend to take more pic than I need and crop later so I
assume it rarely hurts to have too many pixels.

I have a drawer full of CF memory and readers for it; I also like the
huge sizes they come it. Makes me lean towards a D200 but hardly
justification on its own.

I'm hoping that someone here knowlegable in the various Nikon D-SLRs
will be able to simplify my selection or offer a little
guidance/advice. I was initially on the fence between a D80 and D200
but now find myself now considering old stock D50/D70 and even
reconsidering D40/D40x since most of my existing lenses are non-AF
anyway.

Any help greatly appreciated!
-Carl
Click to expand...
Its not so easy - there are pros and cons to all alternatives here. My background - when I shot film in the 80s I had the Nikon F3/MD4 combo with 85 2.0 and 180 2.8 for sports (also many other lenses and a FM and FE too with MD12 drives).

When digital got me interested in photography again I bought a D100, then switched it for D200, got a D50 as a backup, later switched the D50 for a D40.

The D200 is the only DSLR that get close to the feel of build quality and speed of a F3/MD4 (even if I think the F3/MD4 with the NC-pack) was a little faster than the 5 fps drive of the D200) at a reasonable price. It is also the only of your alternatives that gives full functionality including metering and auto exposure options with the MF AI lenses.

But manual focusing with DSLRs is not so fast and easy as with a SLR. I would not want to shoot sports that way, except if I could prefocus.

The 85 1.4 or why not the 85 1.8 are popular choices for indoor sports, but the AF-S lenses has the fastest focus. The D200 matched with the 70-200VR 2.8 AF-S is an impressive performer for sports, but is a pretty expensive combo.

A D80 or D50 (if you could find one) with a normal zoom like 18-55 (costs almost nothing), 18-70, 18-135 or 18-200VR with a 85 1.8 is a more affordable way to get started, but the 3 fps (D80) or 2.5 fps (D50) feels a lot slower than a F3/MD4, and you have to meter with your old Ai-lenses by trial exposures and a check on the LCD.

D40/D40x - I really like my little D40 with excellent IQ straight out of the camera and excellent high ISO-performance - but the lack of focus motor is a big problem if you need fast lenses for indoor sports - the only alternatives is the very expensive 70-200 VR or the Sigma 50-150 2.8 or the Sigma 70-200 2.8.

Then again - many expect Nikon to soon introduce new lenses and cameras (90-year anniversary end of July) and then there may be new options.
--
Small D200 gallery:
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/d200_12
Small D40 gallery:
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/d40_12
Small Nikon P5000 gallery:
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/nikonp5000_12
http://www.pbase.com/interactive
 
Carl_B said:
I'm hoping that someone here knowlegable in the various Nikon D-SLRs
will be able to simplify my selection or offer a little
guidance/advice. I was initially on the fence between a D80 and D200
but now find myself now considering old stock D50/D70 and even
reconsidering D40/D40x since most of my existing lenses are non-AF
anyway.
Click to expand...
Honestly, coming from what remains one of the best film camera, only the D200 will feel right in your hands. Really, you should go to a shop and actually handle these cameras for a while. I tried the D40, and it's a very fine camera for beginners and the like, but it just does not feel right in the hands - though the fact that I have big hands might be an issue.

Also, be careful with the MF lenses. With all these cameras but the D200, you will lose everything, including the matrix metering. Speaking of which, the D200 is the only camera with the full blown matrix metering system, the D40 and D80 have a less complete version that performs slightly worse than the full version.

Though coming from a F3, you might be used to center weighted and might not want to use matrix. But on this topic, the D200 lets you adjust the size of the center weighted measure - I'm not sure the D80 lets you do that. IIRC, the F3 has a very selective CW measure, you might be able to replicate it better with the D200.

But you did not tell us about your budget, that might make a big difference... If you had an unlimited budget, I would tell you to wait until Nikon announces its next pro camera and hope for the digital equivalent of the F3...
 
Carl_B said:
I have a lot of experience with film SLRs - F3HP (serious photos) and
N50 (my version of a point and shoot) and have accumulated over the
years a collection of Nikon lenses (although mostly non-AF AI).
I've been using a Canon Powershot S-70 pocket digital and finally
ready to pull the trigger on a D-SLR. With my collection of F mount
lenses, speedlight, and confidence in Nikon products in general I'm
pretty set on it being another Nikon.
Click to expand...
I feel a D200 comming on.
Carl_B said:
I thought I'd start with a body only and reuse the lenses I'm already
familiar with. Then save for an 18-200 VR and maybe an 85mm 1.4
(indoor sports and portraits).
Click to expand...
That 18-200 may seriously disappoint you.
Carl_B said:
The shots I want to improve the most are my daughters gymnastics
competitions and my waterskiing pics. Each represent their own
challenges. For indoor sports I can blow away the Canon's pics using
my F3 w/fast lens and film. I don't mind focusing manually but I've
been told that a D-SLR will not have nearly as bright a viewfinder as
the F3HP so manual focus of low light action may not be as easy as I
think.
Click to expand...
Takes a bit of getting used to. You got your focus dot though.
Carl_B said:
For the outdoor waterskiiing the challenge is boat movement where I
think a VR lens may help. The other challenge will be handing
someone my prized D-SLR to hold and keep dry:(
Click to expand...
Waterskiing? That says nice weather to me.
Carl_B said:
I've had a D200 recommended and thought the decision would be an easy
one but I've spent the last few days reading these forums and somehow
managed to become less and less convinced of a perfect fit.
Click to expand...
Why? With a D200 you got metering with your entire glass collection.
Carl_B said:
I think my desire for a fast and affordable indoor sports lens rules
out D40/D40x if I want to maintain AF. I'm not sure I really need
10mp but I do tend to take more pic than I need and crop later so I
assume it rarely hurts to have too many pixels.

I have a drawer full of CF memory and readers for it; I also like the
huge sizes they come it. Makes me lean towards a D200 but hardly
justification on its own.

I'm hoping that someone here knowlegable in the various Nikon D-SLRs
will be able to simplify my selection or offer a little
guidance/advice. I was initially on the fence between a D80 and D200
but now find myself now considering old stock D50/D70 and even
reconsidering D40/D40x since most of my existing lenses are non-AF
anyway.
Click to expand...
Well, depends on if you want metering or not. If you do then D200 is minimum. If not then a D50 or D70 or D80 may be interesting. D40 may be too small for you considering the cameras you own.

--
Don't wait for the Nikon D-whatever, have fun now!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/j_wijnands/
 
Simply put: if you plan to buy a fairly substantial collection of new (AF) lenses, you can go whatever direction you choose. I'd suggest the D80, D200 or the Fuji S5 Pro (more below).

If you still can appreciate the IQ from your MF lenses (I've got 6 MF primes), the ability to METER is invaluable! Go D200 or Fuji S5 Pro. For sports/speed/megapixel resolution go D200. For incredible DR, even better high ISO and low-light capabilities, and prints up to maybe 12"x18" as max print size I'd opt for the S5 Pro. The S5 Pro should NOT be underestimated based on megapixels alone.

If getting AF lenses, decide what your priorities are. Personally, I feel the D80 is the 'serious entry-level' dSLR from Nikon. I'm not hating on the D40/x, 50,60, 70, etc. Simply put, more AF points, better bracketing, AF isn't limited to AF-S, Nikon's CLS wireless flash system is also spectacular... So many reasons to spend the couple hundred extra up-front IMHO.

I was waiting for Canon to release a 40D and they dint. I'm so HAPPY they dint, 'cuz I ended up w/ a D80 and couldn't be happier. Of course, I'm simply waiting for the S5 Pro to drop to about $1500... The D80 was really an 'upgrade path' to the S5 for me.

OTOH, many enjoy their D40/x... And some say gets better high ISO results from the same sensor... But the AF-S thing makes it tough for great primes even. Your call based on needs.

--
Cheers.
David
my flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/prodesma/
my website: http://kaptures.net/
(free desktop wallpapers and Sunny 16 Chart downloads on my website)
 
I've always thought a digital back for the F3 would be a really cool. Something like the Kodak DCS 200 experiment but with current technology. I'm certain it would end up cost prohibitive.
 
..since you mention that you have already considered it (and set it aside?).

I had similar issues and settled on the D200, not being able to afford more. Less have substantial limitations you will need to consider for your purposes. E.g.: with the D40/D40X you lose autofocus on all but AF-S lenses since there is no focus motor in the body.

With the D200, my twelve old AI and AIS prime lenses will meter. Lesser bodies won't provide metering. Old zooms won't meter so I've bought a couple of autofocus models including the Sigma 12-24 and Nikkor 24-85 G lens and 70-300 AF-ED. All purchases used at 75% new retail at B&H in NYC.

Remember that VR won't help for action shots. (Might even intrude...). I'm skeptical of VR for the price. May be more prone to breakdown. I've never returned a Nikkor or broken one except a cheap (but sharp) composite mount 80-200 AF-D, but can expect electronic versions to be more prone to defect.

For outdoor shots, I've gotton some well-focused and very sharp shots with the D200 at ISO 1600 firing 5 fps and AF continuous. The viewfinder is bright enough for stills or slow moving objects, but not for continuous fast action, although I've had good luck at longer zooms so I can still use my old 80-200 f/4 one touch.

I've used the AF Zoom Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.0-5.6D ED both indoors at swim meets and outdoors with success. Others have commented with amazement at how sharp and detailed this body/lens combination is.

My impression of the D200 is one of brute strength: well built, fast focusing, fast shooting, and well balanced. Coincidentally, I've also used the Canon S70 for years and still do as a pocket camera. You will be amazed at the improvement with the D200.
 
I basically agree with the previous post, but one other body you might want to consider is the fuji s5 pro. based on the D200, it will take all your old lenses and has excellent low light capability.

--
Phil A
FCAS Member #100
http://www.pbase.com/philinnz
 
It seems my best options are either:

1) Wait a few more months and get a D300
2) Wait the same period and shop for a used or discounted D200
3) Same as above except a Fujifilm S5

As attached to my 20 year old MF lenses as I am, I see that they aren't terribly expensive. I have a 50 1.4 and a 28 2.8 which I really liked on my F3 but starting to wonder if they will be as useful on a DX body. I've taken some awesome shots through a 35-200 3.5-4.5 but I wonder if I'll be happy with MF on any of these bodies. I also have an inexpensive AF 35-80 1.4-?? which might hold me over as a walk around until I have a lense budget.

In any case, the gymnastics competition pictures are what's most important to me right now. It's indoor, low light, quick movement and unfortunately great digital shots prove to be elusive. I'm fairly successful on film with prefocus and timing (no lag) but the cost of fast film, subsequent processing is eating up budget that might be best put towards a DSLR.

I've just about ruled out everything below a D200 for the metering alone. Do you think it's worth waiting for a D300? I've been patient this long and my daughter doesn't start competing again until January. Suggestions appreciated. I'm clearly not being very impulsive over this.
 
Don't limit your choice by the lenses you currently own. You will buy new lenses, and if you don't believe me, you are in denial... a little humor here.

Anyway, the D80 is great. Just the DOF preview button makes enough difference for me. The only difference between the D80 and the D200 is basically the D200 is geared more for serious sports photography. But the D80 does a fine job in this respect. I photographed horse jumping events and football games for my daughter and son. I started with the D50. In my opinion, the D80 is superior. And for the difference in cost, the D80 is a much more versatile camera than any of the models below it.

I realize the D200 is a fine camera. One reason I did not go for it is because it was weight. I backpack and like landscape photography. But I like a versatile camera as well. If camera weight is not critical, the D200 is a winner. But if budget and/or weight is an issue, the D80 is a winner.

I started with the 18-200. The only problem with it is the aperture when fully zoomed does not let enough light in if the lighting conditions are marginal. I have since upgraded and own the 17-35 f/2.8 (a terrific lens!) and the 70-200 f/2.8 (and excellent sports lens). I also have the TC-14E 1.4X teleconverter, an effective and economical way to upgrade the 70-200. And yes, I know, the weight of all of these lenses is huge. But still, the weight savings and performance make the D80 a very good choice for us amateurs.
 
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